Other Impact on next iPhone sales if made in China

[John-F]

I read that Foxconn was building or has already built a manufacturing plant in the US. I'm assuming the next iPhone will still be built in China, but is that a given?

Given the virus situation, I wonder how many people will refuse to buy products made in China if there is an alternative.

Are the Samsung phones also made in China, or are they made in Korea?

Lastly, I always assumed in the past that moving from one ecosystem to another would be a big deal, especially if apps were involved. I recall at least in the past, that while many apps existed in both ecosystems, some do not, and if they do, would have to be purchased again.

Curious on thoughts about this.

 

[maerz001]

no US iphone manufacturing in the near future.
the argument doesn't hold regarding virus contamination. 1st in the US there are now 5x more people infected (in september 100x?), 2nd the virus doesn't survive long enough from manufacturing till delivery...

i assume there will be a much higher hit on sales cos of a financial recession and people not willing or able to spent on luxury products

 

[JPack]

No plans by Foxconn to build anything in the U.S. There's not a single LCD plant in the U.S. so the idea that someone will bring iPhone assembly to the U.S. is nothing but political signaling.

If anything, the COVID-19 situation has proven how resilient the supply chain in China is. After a two month lockdown, production is back to 80-90% and all Apple Stores are running normally.

 

[now i see it]

The USA is the world's number one hotspot for CoV cases- not China. It's now safer to import a product from China than it is to get pizza delivered in New York

Coronavirus Update (Live): 130,775,239 Cases and 2,849,547 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[konqerror]

There's not a single LCD plant in the U.S. so the idea that someone will bring iPhone assembly to the U.S. is nothing but political signaling.

What difference does that make, given that existing iPhone displays aren't made in China but rather Japan and Korea? The highest value parts, ICs, come from Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. Specialized semiconductors come from the US.

It's faulty logic when, for example, BMW flies in engines and transmissions on a private plane from Germany to make cars.

The USA is the world's number one hotspot for CoV cases- not China. It's now safer to import a product from China than it is to get pizza delivered in New York

Not when you sort by incidence rates. Europe is much worse. Non-population normalized numbers are fake news.

 

[edhchoe]

I will keep buying iPhones no matter where it is made. Even if they make iPhones in North Korea under most inhumane conditions I would still buy.

 

[freeagent]

It costs too much money to pay employees in North America. Eats up profits. It’s much cheaper to manufacture off shore. That’s why you barely see made in the USA anymore.

 

[JPack]

What difference does that make, given that existing iPhone displays aren't made in China but rather Japan and Korea? The highest value parts, ICs, come from Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. Specialized semiconductors come from the US.

If you check Apple's Supplier List, you'll see that Samsung and Sharp displays are made in China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam.




Making displays is already a highly automated low speed process requiring few skilled staff. Foxconn couldn't find enough skilled staff in Wisconsin to commit to building an LCD plant. To build an iPhone, you need an army of quality assurance engineers, display engineers, enclosure engineers, etc. There aren't enough skilled workers in the U.S. for such an undertaking.
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It's faulty logic when, for example, BMW flies in engines and transmissions on a private plane from Germany to make cars.

The U.S. has a lot more skilled engineers related to automobile design and manufacturing. We're talking iPhones here.

 

[konqerror]

If you check Apple's Supplier List, you'll see that Samsung and Sharp displays are made in China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam.

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Making displays is already a highly automated low speed process requiring few skilled staff. Foxconn couldn't find enough skilled staff in Wisconsin to commit to building an LCD plant. To build an iPhone, you need an army of quality assurance engineers, display engineers, enclosure engineers, etc. There aren't enough skilled workers in the U.S. for such an undertaking.

The display plants are not in China, as I said they're in South Korea and Japan. The displays are shipped to China for low-value final assembly into modules.

Same thing happens with Intel CPUs. If you read the labeling, they say Malaysia and they appear on that same list as such. That's because the microfabrication is done in the US and they're shipped to Malaysia for packaging and test.

Similarly I know Skyworks makes their chips just north of LA, then they're shipped over the border to Mexico for packaging. There are no highly advanced III-V semiconductor plants in Mexicali.

The country of origin is legally the last place where substantial transformation occurred, even if that transformation was a low portion of the overall value of the finished good. Thus, looking at a supplier list or the COO on the label doesn't tell you where it was truly made.

 

[JPack]

The display plants are not in China, as I said they're in South Korea and Japan. The displays are shipped to China for low-value final assembly into modules.

I'm not sure why you insist on saying something that's clearly wrong.

Samsung Suzhou LCD has been in operation for a decade.

"The 600,000 sq. mtr fabrication line will start mass producing panels in first half of 2013 and will produce 100,000 glass substrates (1950x2250mm) per month. This will be China’s largest advanced LCD production cluster that includes materials, component suppliers, LCD panel and module production and distribution."
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Same thing happens with Intel CPUs. If you read the labeling, they say Malaysia and they appear on that same list as such. That's because the microfabrication is done in the US and they're shipped to Malaysia for packaging and test.

Similarly I know Skyworks makes their chips just north of LA, then they're shipped over the border to Mexico for packaging. There are no highly advanced III-V semiconductor plants in Mexicali.

The country of origin is legally the last place where substantial transformation occurred, even if that transformation was a low portion of the overall value of the finished good. Thus, looking at a supplier list or the COO on the label doesn't tell you where it was truly made.

Why do you keep providing conflating examples that are irrelevant to the discussion?

Chips have a different procedure for test and packaging. We're talking displays, not chips.

 

[konqerror]

I'm not sure why you insist on saying something that's clearly wrong.

Samsung Suzhou LCD has been in operation for a decade.

You're clearly wrong because that's a TV plant. Huge pixels = easy to make. Unless you're suggesting iPhones will have 32 inch+ LCDs, it's irrelevant.

 

[steelhauler34]

Afraid to buy something manufactured in China?? Pretty sure if you are going to get covid-19 through that means of transmission you should be way more worried about something coming from the . Forum browsing never ceases to entertain though. Have to love it. I thank the OP for a good laugh.

 

[konqerror]

The U.S. has a lot more skilled engineers related to automobile design and manufacturing. We're talking iPhones here.

Incorrect, you just stated the opposite. There's little demand for, in particular, manual transmissions in the US, so there's no production capability, so BMW flies them over from Germany. This is rather than making the whole car in Germany and shipping it over on a boat.

The whole point is your argument is flawed since parts are flown around anyway, from ICs all the way to car engines. The difference between flying from Japan to China and Japan to the US is an additional 24 hours of lead time.

The extra 1 day of inventory does cost a measurable amount of money for which Tim Cook will scream about. However, it is not an insurmountable challenge. Automakers have had this figured out, as well as companies that truck things over the border with Mexico and Canada.

The challenge is paying $10/hr in US wages versus $3 in China.

 

[JPack]

You're clearly wrong because that's a TV plant. Huge pixels = easy to make. Unless you're suggesting iPhones will have 32 inch+ LCDs, it's irrelevant.

You obviously have no idea that large panels can be cut smaller.

First you try to use an example of BMW. Then Intel. We're talking displays. End of discussion.

 

[konqerror]

You obviously have no idea that large panels can be cut smaller.

Wrong. Small pixels require better lithography, which is the number one challenge in LCD panel manufacturing.

First you try to use an example of BMW. Then Intel. We're talking displays. End of discussion.

Those are all in the same science of lean manufacturing. Despite naysayers like you, the US placed a significant amount of research money in this field and in many ways we are beating the traditional favorites, the Japanese, in this.

I'm done arguing with a google-genius.

 

[John-F]

I purposely did not suggest any motive some might have for not wanting to buy anything made in China because I did not want to bring anything political into the discussion. But many of the responses assumed the major reason was fear of contamination. I really was thinking some will prefer not to buy from China because of a preference for the US supply chain to become more independent of China. Again, not suggesting a discussion of whether such a preference is valid, just assuming it is a given, wondering the impact if someone wants a new phone in the fall.

 

[maerz001]

Not when you sort by incidence rates. Europe is much worse. Non-population normalized numbers are fake news.

Maybe check what fake news means. Just cos u say u want to see numbers/population doesn’t make it any more right. Its like saying distance in inch is right but cm is fake news.

Btw the European countries Croatia, Sweden, Denmark, Czech, Slovenia, Finland, Ireland, Netherlands all have lower numbers/population than the US.

Even if u look at worst hit Italy they have 5000/day. US now already 30000/day, while less 6x the population

 

[edhchoe]

We obviously have some world class experts in this thread.

 

[bodonnell202]

Funny how far off the rails from the original topic this thread went.

I suspect the suspect the location the next iPhone is manufactured will have little impact on its demand. A large global recession and all the economic uncertainty brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic will undoubtedly have an impact on sales of the next iPhone.

Apparently Samsung phones are manufactured in Vietnam, China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, and South Korea with the majority of them made in Vietnam.

It's true that most apps exist in both ecosystems, but app purchases generally do not transfer between ecosystems (but subscriptions usually do).