In defense of Apple

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by richmlow, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. richmlow macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    #1
    Hi all,


    I must say that the last few days have been quite remarkable in light of Apple's media event! Even after the fact, there has been quite a bit of criticism, "hate" talk, etc. from the Apple user community. It is understandable that people are still ranting and raving (perhaps, rightly so) because of pent-up frustration with Apple's actions, inactions, lack of communication, secrecy, etc. in the past 5 years or so.

    However, I would like to put a positive spin on the recent media event and its revelations.

    1. Apple has admitted that it made a substantial mistake with the current nMP. Their design certainly was innovative but did not meet the needs of the Pro market. It had severe thermal restrictions and lack of expandability. As a result of this profound mistake, Apple paid the price in the form of large migration of Pro users to other platforms, negativity in the Apple community, loss of credibility and feasibility from Pro users, etc. However, Apple recognizes their mistakes in this whole matter, admits their errors, and now wants to move forward and make a better Mac Pro. As part of the Apple community, can we not just also leave it at that and move on?! I don't see the point of rehashing over and over again, what Apple should have or not have done!

    2. Some have asked the question of why it's going to take Apple so long to design the new "modular" Mac Pro. While none of us in the mainstream population know the details of what goes on in Apple, I will pose a reasonable conjecture. It's quite possible that Apple was intending to discontinue the Mac Pro line, until very recently. If this is indeed the case, the new "modular" Mac Pro may be in the initial stages of design and it will take quite awhile for us to see the final product released. I don't believe that Apple is interested in just slapping in some new components in the "cheese-grater" design and calling it a day.

    3. The recent Apple media event was an attempt at damage control. Apple realized that it needed to be a bit more transparent with its plans for the Mac Pro. Although they should have done this a long time ago, the fact of the matter is that they eventually came to their senses, with regards to more open communication to the community. From my point of view, it was good that Apple broke the silence. Imagine if they did not hold the media event....negativity, gnashing of teeth, etc. would continue its downward spiral throughout the Apple community.

    I could go on and on.

    I'm the optimist and am willing to give Apple a chance to learn and correct its mistakes. It is not a matter of life and death. I hope that all of us will be able to enjoy and use the awesome Apple products which will come out, long into the distant future!


    richmlow
     
  2. fokmik macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    #2
    Lets not forget Apple is led by PEOPLE. When the mac pro was released in 2013 was a very good machine for its time, but the main disadvantage was felt after 1-2 years when you couldn't do any upgrades and even Apple couldn't.
    The macbook pro now its a great machine after all the battery issues and glitches are gone and i hope for some integration of the apple pencil into that large trackpad or some kind of mac +"wacom" like with the ipad
     
  3. Chancha macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    #3
    The actual problem isn't whether or not we are happy with the state of affairs, but that the real world surrounding "pro" industries has changed and will change in a direction that Apple just now realized they lags on. They will now have to play the catchup game just to arrive at the same place that others are already at. In a way it may be even better for everyone else if they flat out kept the same silence and let the Mac lineup rots by itself so we can all walk out, but re-igniting hopes into their ecosystem at this stage is going to put further burden and larger expectation for them to deliver. This is what I take from the situation, and I will fully expect even harsher critique on their future directions as the details of the mMP plan slowly rolls out down the next months.

    The fact that Apple took such an unusually humble undertone in revealing their intention shows me they are also fully prepared for this as well. When people still talk about them it means people still care, Apple at least is smart enough to realize that, for now.
     
  4. fokmik macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    #4
    The others are not anywhere...the others still making same old school pc. So no catch up need because isn't anything. Apple just have to make an modular mac pro with Apple adn high end built with easy user replaceable components like pressing a bottom, and the ram will come out automatically to be exchanged or added, and so on with the rest gpu ssd
     
  5. Chancha macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    #5
    If that's the case then it wouldn't have taken Apple another year to develop the machine. It seems their intention is not only to catch up, but also to out-do the others at least in an industrial design point of view. As soon as next month we will see benchmarks of Hackintosh builds with Pascal web drivers to see if the driver/software side is indeed "nothing to catch up to".
     
  6. Morpheo macrumors 65816

    Morpheo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Location:
    Paris/Montreal
    #6
    Oh don't worry the MR community will take of the spiral regardless of what Apple says or does ;)
     
  7. fokmik macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    #7
    i think they are doing what i said...the easiest way to upgrade the components when need, so you will no longer need ten of minutes or even longer at some cases to change a gpu ram and ssd
     
  8. Appleaker macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2016
    #8
    No they weren't planning to discontinue the Mac Pro. But the double down on Pro users did result in finalising the plan with the direction of the Mac Pro. The press event addressed the Mac for those who were overly negative and couldn't afford to wait for a rumored products/events.
    As John Gruber said, it was also required if Apple were to update the configurations of the Mac Pro, which they did. If they did that without mentioning the future of the Mac Pro, the hate towards it would multiply as people would believe that's all Apple are doing with it. Likely causing a lot of customers to move platforms/not trust Apple to support Pro users.
     
  9. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #9
    The proof will be in the pudding Rich. My guess is that we’ll get the power but we’ll still end up with proprietary parts, (Apple only GPUs/HDDs/modules), and firmware, (EFI), and a dumbed down OS.
     
  10. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #10
    Proprietary components will always be a part of Macs. Even with all the proprietary components, lots of people are running macOS on commodity PC components. Without these proprietary components, Apple would not be able to sell any Macs.

    You have to remember, Apple sells Macs, not macOS.
     
  11. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #11
    True, but that is what has gotten them into trouble with the latest Mac Pro.
     
  12. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #12
    I don't think that it was the proprietary components that people didn't like about the MacPro6,1. The MacPro1,1-5,1 all had proprietary EFI, needed proprietary video card firmware, etc. and they were all very well received. It was the 6,1's lack of expandability and upgradability that people hated.
     
  13. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #13
    Sort of. Most of the stuff in the cheese grater I could change out easily and maintain an excellent level of usability. I mean I changed using non apple parts;
    • Optical drive
    • Hard drive
    • GPU
    • RAM
    I believe others have gone further with;
    Fans
    CPU

    Also added PCI cards, additional optical drive.

    Try all that with the 6,1.
     
  14. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #14
    As I stated in another thread, it's my theory that Apple tried to commoditize the Mac Pro to accelerate the upgrade cycles. Obviously, it failed...
     
  15. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #15
    I kind of don't blame them. I don't mind paying a bit over the odds for something but I don't like to feel caged or ripped off and I started to feel that way, that’s why my spend with Apple began to drop off.
     
  16. Mago macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Location:
    Beyond the Thunderdome
    #16
    This post its, Naive to say something.

    If you read carefully the meeting transcripts, they spills few cues:

    1- Xcode installs as a thermometer for 'PRO' user community grow and hardware classification.
    2- iMac and Macbooks taking role in PRO users, a;sp they plan an iMac 'pro'.
    3- Apple Pro Display (Why?)
    4- Single GPU Mac Pro Dead End.
    5- External GPUs useful for some users.
    6- Questionable Argument about the tMP going from dual to single GPU.

    but, if you read the news, also there where some interesting developmens from Q4'16 before tbMPB introduction:
    - nVidia suddenly open job positions for macOS drivers ('beta' since officially no mac uses nothing better than GTX780, those imaginary mac running Pascal GPUs either are hackintosh, MP 6,1 or APPLE PROTOTYPES...
    - AMD again Delays few months its VEGA GPU even more, Compute Capable Vega20 Wont be Available until well into 2018.

    What I read from all these:

    At some point Q3 2016 they where Aware no AMD Vega GPU will be available to introduce an update tMP for WWDC, they ask for nVidia, then later this year with both nVidia and AMD GPUs prototypes they realize the MP need a thermal core redesign, not trivial but expensive going from a single aluminum extrusion to an elaborate thermal Pipe design, maybe they build some prototypes and cant manage to run stable, neither a single Vega GPU was an actual improvement to dual D700 (at least in FP64 is expected to be much slower), then some one asked to kill the tMP in favor to an Xeon iMac with nVidia Quadro P4000, and get rid of the trashcan and take time to build a new one, then comes the PRO stampede detected by XCode installs, they come to forums to read user comments they find the arguments to not to kill the Mac Pro but reboot the design, then it comes the inminent iMac relase foresee by Ming Chu Quo for Q2, they need to say somthing to the PRO community to stop the Stampede, then they call they friends to tell us what they want us to hear.

    Facts: Apple need to stop Pro Users Stampede, introduce a Pro focused iMac, and gain time either for AMD to ready Vega20 (even Naples APUs) or to start the development on an all new Mac Pro based on Intel and more open to nVidia GPU options (dual 300W GPU), also add the fact that few professionals are excited about LG 5K display, they need an 5K Display with much better quality for Pro Enviroments (not just more beautiful, but faster, callibrated and stable).

    What we could see, Next month new iMacs (despite that rumous for Q4, Apple should introduce iMacs past Q4 but weren't ready, so they postponed to Q2), even some Pro iMac with nVidia Quadro GPU P4000/P2000 and Xeon E3v6, maybe available too with AMD GPU and i5/i7, also maybe we will see some External GPU cage as part of the solution, no Mac Pro prototypes yet but maybe they will shown us a prototype by Q4.

    Future Mac Pro? Modular doesnt means Cheese-Grater return, maybe something like that beautiful macPro concept with dual Vertical ISA GPU but either with an propertary interface or using some interposer to drive DP output to Thunderbolt 3 controllers, and either AMD Naples or Intel Skylake-EP chipset but single CPU, no DVD, no Sata.
     
  17. Michaelgtrusa macrumors 604

    Michaelgtrusa

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Location:
    Everywhere And Nowhere
    #17
    Focus on profit and outsourceing is one reason for the lack of effort, butt it's good to hear this statement from them. Apple should have offered some kind of update for the MP in recent months but did nothing but build R&D labs overseas, ask suppliers to help them boost profit and bring in as much cash as possible, that's been the focus of Apple and what ticks so many off.
     
  18. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #18
    What did they outsource?

    Building R&D labs overseas is not outsourcing. It's just a way to utilize R&D talent from other countries. Those are still Apple's R&D labs, they are not outsourced.

    As a publicly traded company, they have a fiduciary responsibility to focus on profits. I see nothing wrong with that and it doesn't tick me off at all.
     

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