In poor job market, a rush to nursing

[brett33]

A while back I did a research project related to the current/impending nursing shortage. This was probably 2+ years ago that I did most of the research, so I'm not going to be able to pull everything out of my head, but there are many issues that need to be addressed if we have any hope of having enough nurses available for the boomers.

While the entry salary for nursing may be attractive there is a lack of advancement available unless the nurse participates in professional development, which more often than not is left totally up to her/him, without support from their institution.

There is a general feeling that nurses eat their young. Many nurses discourage others from entering the field and sometimes create a hostile environment for young nurses entering the field. This leads to more and more nurses changing fields.

There is a lack of nursing educators.

What seemed to be the biggest issue in my research was a general feeling that there need to be changes on an insitutional level. Empowering the nurses, and giving them more of a say in how things are done. As someone else mentioned more and more the number of beds that a nurse is responsible for has doubled or tripled. This is because of the shortage, and then also can lead to burn out which contributes to the shortage. It's not easy to get institutions to change but this seems to be the best chance at fighting the shortage.

Not as eloquent a post as it should probably be, but Ihope it raises and re-enforces a few points

 

[wdlove]

"TRENTON, N.J. -- At nursing schools from New Jersey to California, a surge of applicants who could ease the worsening shortage of nurses are being turned away, because many schools can't find enough qualified professors.

That shortfall is driven by health-care jobs that offer better pay and by fewer nurses pursuing the Ph.D. that is required for full-time, tenured teaching positions."

Now the problem is that pay is high at the hospitals and the schools that train nurses can't afford to pay what they deserve.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/29/low_wages_long_studies_bring_scarcity_of_nursing_professors/

 

[crunked]

What about male nurses? Is there an increase in men deciding to become a nurse? I'm currently taking graphics design in college, but i've recently been having second thoughts about it since it's seems that it's very difficult to get a job in the computer industry nowadays. My parents are now encouraging me to take nursing instead cause of the many advantages. the thing is though, the fact that this is typically a job for women is what really turns me off. What do you guys think, should I go ahead and take nursing?

 

[Mantat]

What about male nurses? Is there an increase in men deciding to become a nurse? I'm currently taking graphics design in college, but i've recently been having second thoughts about it since it's seems that it's very difficult to get a job in the computer industry nowadays. My parents are now encouraging me to take nursing instead cause of the many advantages. the thing is though, the fact that this is typically a job for women is what really turns me off. What do you guys think, should I go ahead and take nursing?

I have worked in a lot of hospital (did consulting job) and I can tell you that male nurse are well received and appreciated.

One problem you might face is that because 99% of the nurse are girls, you are going to work in a female environnement. This has its plus but also a lot of minuses, you have to experience it to understand and I dont want to start a debate about it here. Another problem might be the social advantages. They are mostly designed for women so you might be at lost for some of them, but nothing really big.

But if you only want to do it to be sure to have a job, forget it! You wont survive long. Nursing and medecine are vocations, not jobs. You have to like it because no pay check will be big enough to fill all of the emotional holes you will face.

If you have the guts for it, GO for it!

 

[jhu]

or you can go into medicine which has a longer road and worse hours (depending on what you do of course).

 

[MongoTheGeek]

or you can go into medicine which has a longer road and worse hours (depending on what you do of course).

Speaking as a patient, I think the nurses had it far worse than the doctors. The hours may have been more regular for the nurses (no middle of the night phone calls) but in the hospital there were far more nurses on scut shifts than doctors (ratio wise). The nurses also seemed far more fatigued at the end of the day, more work work and less paper work. They also had to do more of the icky things (IV's etc)

Less nurses need marginally less schooling and doing have the longer internship that doctors do but the work seems at least more emotionally challenging.

Another note. I saw some rather brutal turnover of nurses. It almost felt higher than the patient turnover. Its a job you have to love.

 

[jhu]

Speaking as a patient, I think the nurses had it far worse than the doctors. The hours may have been more regular for the nurses (no middle of the night phone calls) but in the hospital there were far more nurses on scut shifts than doctors (ratio wise). The nurses also seemed far more fatigued at the end of the day, more work work and less paper work. They also had to do more of the icky things (IV's etc)

Less nurses need marginally less schooling and doing have the longer internship that doctors do but the work seems at least more emotionally challenging.

Another note. I saw some rather brutal turnover of nurses. It almost felt higher than the patient turnover. Its a job you have to love.

depnds on what you're doing. if you go into surgeon, don't expect to see the sun during your residency.

 

[wdlove]

What about male nurses? Is there an increase in men deciding to become a nurse? I'm currently taking graphics design in college, but i've recently been having second thoughts about it since it's seems that it's very difficult to get a job in the computer industry nowadays. My parents are now encouraging me to take nursing instead cause of the many advantages. the thing is though, the fact that this is typically a job for women is what really turns me off. What do you guys think, should I go ahead and take nursing?

I'm a male nurse. When I went to nursing school in 1971, I was the only male in my class. It was actually nice, very well treated by faculty and students. My father was upset, due to connotation that nurses are women. I was very well accepted by my male and female patients. Sometimes the female students would respond better to me than the female nurses. It would tell them that it was time to tale a walk, they would be ready. There are more male nurses now. Many men have seen it as an honorable profession. I would highly recommend the profession. You should go and visit at your nursing school, they will best be able to advise you.

 

[Toreador93]

What about male nurses? Is there an increase in men deciding to become a nurse? I'm currently taking graphics design in college, but i've recently been having second thoughts about it since it's seems that it's very difficult to get a job in the computer industry nowadays. My parents are now encouraging me to take nursing instead cause of the many advantages. the thing is though, the fact that this is typically a job for women is what really turns me off. What do you guys think, should I go ahead and take nursing?

I have two male friends who are going into nursing (that I recall off the top of my head), and they're about as masculine as you can get, if that's what you're worried about. Definitely nothing femine about them. While my grandfather was in the hospital, I saw quite a few male nurses.

I don't think you should get into it just for the money, though. Definitely not an easy job. You could check out becoming a Pharmacist. They make good money, and are still in short supply. Lots o' chemistry, though, either way.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm a male nurse. When I went to nursing school in 1971, I was the only male in my class. It was actually nice, very well treated by faculty and students. My father was upset, due to connotation that nurses are women. I was very well accepted by my male and female patients. Sometimes the female students would respond better to me than the female nurses. It would tell them that it was time to tale a walk, they would be ready. There are more male nurses now. Many men have seen it as an honorable profession. I would highly recommend the profession. You should go and visit at your nursing school, they will best be able to advise you.

I know from my experience years ago, I felt more comfortable with male nurses. I know it sounds sexist, but it is also exampled by some female friends of mine that prefer female doctors.

I was lucky that the hospital I was at had a male nurse available for my "shaving" and catheters. It just made me feel more comfortable.

I guess I have been spoiled to a degree. Andrews AFB was the hospital of my youth. And the corpsmen (and women) were the "nurses". They were pretty well split there between men and women.

I wish more men would look in to nursing. In my hospitalization, it made a rough situation easier to deal with. And reducing stress is a goal that most if not all hospitals strive for.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

<snip> Definitely nothing femine about them. While my grandfather was in the hospital, I saw quite a few male nurses.

I don't think you should get into it just for the money, though. Definitely not an easy job. You could check out becoming a Pharmacist. They make good money, and are still in short supply. Lots o' chemistry, though, either way.

Some good points.

One of the male nurses that attended my hospital stay, did not fit the stereotype of male nurses. He was a moderate bodybuilder (as was i at the time), was into extreme sports, and his wife of 12 years, and their three kids. In fact he had said that his "gruff" exterior that scared some till they got to know him.

As the last few posts have said. You need to go into nursing for the "desire". Not just for the paycheck.

My lover worked for the American Nursing Association. I got to meet lots of nurses. I was always amazed at how well they dealt with the realities of their job. People die, and the next person they see they have to have a positive outlook. I work retail, and have a great understanding of how hard it can be, being positive after a set back (angry customer and the such for myself). I know that I could never handle the stresses that nurses face each and everyday.

I look at nurses as being the angels among us, here on earth. In many cases they don't get the pay they deserve IMO.

As a side story, my next door neighbor is a nurse. My dog, Chewey, came back from the dog park with a puncture wound that we didn't see right away. Went to my neighbors house to seek advice (she is also a dog owner), she and another neighbor there that was also a nurse. They came over and treated the puncture wound so that we could wait till the next day to see the vet (it wasn't that serious). They have done the same for the neighborhood kids and their scrapes. (They both got full meals delivered for a few days for their kindness. They were blown away that we would thank them at all in such away. Money seemed to be out the question the nite they treated Chewey.)

Point being is that nursing is truly a vocation. You have to have it in your heart IMO.

 

[wdlove]

Some good points.

I look at nurses as being the angels among us, here on earth. In many cases they don't get the pay they deserve IMO.

Point being is that nursing is truly a vocation. You have to have it in your heart IMO.

Thank you for your kind comments. A good friend of mine that served in Vietnam agrees. He said, "Do you know what we called nurses in Vietnam, our angels. We appreciated the care that they showed."

I went into nursing because I wanted to take care of patients, be of service to my fellow man. Money wasn't the issue.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Thank you for your kind comments. A good friend of mine that served in Vietnam agrees. He said, "Do you know what we called nurses in Vietnam, our angels. We appreciated the care that they showed."

I went into nursing because I wanted to take care of patients, be of service to my fellow man. Money wasn't the issue.

No thanks needed. As I have said the thanks should be to the nurses themselves.

As you know, my lover just had his appendix taken out. I could not be happier with the care the nurses gave him, and the kindness they showed me as his Gay lover. This in Virginia that is so anti-gay, it is sad. Yet the nurses treated my lover and myself with the dignity that I thought we deserved having been together for 12 years. All without a legal document.

Nuer

There was never a question of my ability to visit him at 5AM after he came out of recovery. Or visiting him during "non-visiting" hours. Because of his love and concern for our dog, Chewey - they looked into what it might take to have Chewey visit him in the hospital. The nursing staff at INOVA Fair Oaks made us both feel that we were equals and human.

That may sound like small potatoes, but he and I have seen treatment that has been much worse. We have been denied access to the examination rooms at some doctors offices.

And further, with my Mom I have seen the goodness in the nursing staff, even at the military hospitals. I have worked retail for a number of years. And that means strange hours. Not as strange as nursing of course. Yet, the staff turned their heads to my visiting my Mom at 11PM (with the understanding of course, that if she was sleeping, I was not wake her). Or even looking the other way when my lover at the time, was allowed to visit my Mom (rules were overlooked). And in my Mom's case; this brought her some happiness , and that seems to be a driving concern of the nurse's I have met. And that is the reason that I look at you and other nurses as angels.

Those that serve us in the police, fire, and nursing professions need to remembered in our prayers. They serve without question. They are on the front lines. They generally don't see the pay that makes the job "worth it". But they serve anyways. They deal with those of us that are at our "worst". And they give us the care and concern regardless it is in the first hours of their 12 hour shift, or the last hour of their 12 hour shift. To me, there is a special place in heaven for these individuals.

To crunked: You need to look deep in your heart before deciding. You will win some and lose some. You have to be able to look at the greater good. In some cases it is to comfort those that time is short. Or maybe to just to make those that are less serious feel some dignity in their situation; regardless of of how you feel personally.

If this is something that you feel strongly about,. all I can say is that the nursing profession is something that you have to be willing to accept success and defeat in. In the case of my Mom, she brought cookies and dinner to those that took care of her over the years. At the same point, when she died, the corpsmen that that took care of her over the years came to the wake or the funereal.

That was a true testament of where their minds and hearts were at....

 

[Les Kern]

I am very pleased to see an increase in the number of nurses. It seems that the pay is very attractive. Nursing is a very rewarding career, ti gives a great feeling to know that you are helping others.

Absolutely. I have a good friend who is a nurse. Like education, medicine is a righteous career move.
One thing I wanted to mention. Our dear leader Bush and the GOP just passed the law that exempted nurses from overtime pay. It took effect Monday last. My home state of Illinois, bless them, opted OUT of that law. Check where you work, or at least lets try to get the law changed.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Absolutely. I have a good friend who is a nurse. Like education, medicine is a righteous career move.
One thing I wanted to mention. Our dear leader Bush and the GOP just passed the law that exempted nurses from overtime pay. It took effect Monday last. My home state of Illinois, bless them, opted OUT of that law. Check where you work, or at least lets try to get the law changed.

I did not know that.

This is disappointing indeed. What I heard is that Police and Firefighters were exempt. It shows a serious shortcoming if nurses were not included. All three IMO are part of the "front-line" defense in case of an attack".

If anything it also shows how low we think of the duty of the nurses. I know first hand that nurses are in many cases equal to Doctors. Maybe it is time that realized it.....

 

[wdlove]

I did not know that.

This is disappointing indeed. What I heard is that Police and Firefighters were exempt. It shows a serious shortcoming if nurses were not included. All three IMO are part of the "front-line" defense in case of an attack".

If anything it also shows how low we think of the duty of the nurses. I know first hand that nurses are in many cases equal to Doctors. Maybe it is time that realized it.....

I think that many parts of the law will have to be worked through. My understanding is that it mainly talks about workers in management. The majority of nurses work on an hourly basis and so would still be eligible for overtime. The nurses that are manigerial are usualkly on a salary, so not eliglbe for overtime before law. We should try to keep this thread out of politics though. I beleive that it was done on a bipartisian basis. If certainly groups are adversely effected then I'm sure that the problem will be rectified.

From the conferences that I have attended with physicians, they are realizing the value of nurses. There is an increasing amount of cooperation to work for the good of patients. The big push is to put into place safegurads to prevent hospital errors. Having doctor's orders done on computer. There is software that monitors for errors such as medications.