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The Cockney Rebel

macrumors 601
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Jul 17, 2010
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For me, it has to be filler.

I was really enjoying TLOU 2, then all of a sudden I’m having to slog through an open world area, to find some gas.

Completely killed the momentum for me.
 
I really hate lazy bad writing and making you do things for the sake of doing something rather than in making sense. Games that can be fun to play but I hate the story telling aspect are Spider Man - the entire series so far With the Myles Morales one and Spider Man 2 takes the cake for worst of the worst. The latest Jedi Survivor game just has you doing stuff for the sake of doing it. You go through all these great looking sets to scale some big old ship or something and then your buddy comes along in a jet pack. Literally the entire game could be scrapped if the character had a jet pack or just used the tech the Star Wars Universe has in it. Assassins Creed games have gotten bad as well. Bad voice acting and unengaging stories. With all that being said Spider Man is great to swing around in and do combat.... despite regular people on the street seemingly difficult for Spider Man. Taking on some thugs you have people literally blocking Spider Mans punches. Makes no sense. Star Wars is a great game for playing with a light saber and exploring good looking locations... though they get boring quick. Assassins Creed feels empty as an open world, Red Dead 2 really raised the bar that no one has come even close to touching.
 
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I really hate lazy bad writing and making you do things for the sake of doing something rather than in making sense. Games that can be fun to play but I hate the story telling aspect are Spider Man - the entire series so far With the Myles Morales one and Spider Man 2 takes the cake for worst of the worst. The latest Jedi Survivor game just has you doing stuff for the sake of doing it. You go through all these great looking sets to scale some big old ship or something and then your buddy comes along in a jet pack. Literally the entire game could be scrapped if the character had a jet pack or just used the tech the Star Wars Universe has in it. Assassins Creed games have gotten bad as well. Bad voice acting and unengaging stories. With all that being said Spider Man is great to swing around in and do combat.... despite regular people on the street seemingly difficult for Spider Man. Taking on some thugs you have people literally blocking Spider Mans punches. Makes no sense. Star Wars is a great game for playing with a light saber and exploring good looking locations... though they get boring quick. Assassins Creed feels empty as an open world, Red Dead 2 really raised the bar that no one has come even close to touching.
I hear you.

I like very tight stories. Not into open world games anymore.

Just doing side quests for the sake of it, doesn’t appeal to me.

I’d rather plough through a game, enjoy the story, then move onto the next one.
 
I hear you.

I like very tight stories. Not into open world games anymore.

Just doing side quests for the sake of it, doesn’t appeal to me.

I’d rather plough through a game, enjoy the story, then move onto the next one.
I think you don't like open worlds because they are just the same thing repeated over and over. This is where Rockstar really shines and sets themselves a thousand miles from another other game developer. Red Dead 2 is a masterpiece from the main story to side quests. There is no repeat the same thing in just another setting, the world is literally filled with interesting and unique side quests that tell a story.... a good story. I have not played in a while but every time I do I still find something new that I have never seen before. A cool thing I saw on YouTube was the player had the main character kill a lot of NPC's. You would not think anything of it after you clear all your wanted levels. Later in the game your character actually runs into an angry widow and goes on about the people you killed and gives you the option to be kind of continue being an ass in response. This game as really soured all other open world games because of the level of detail and thought put into it.
 
I think you don't like open worlds because they are just the same thing repeated over and over. This is where Rockstar really shines and sets themselves a thousand miles from another other game developer. Red Dead 2 is a masterpiece from the main story to side quests. There is no repeat the same thing in just another setting, the world is literally filled with interesting and unique side quests that tell a story.... a good story. I have not played in a while but every time I do I still find something new that I have never seen before. A cool thing I saw on YouTube was the player had the main character kill a lot of NPC's. You would not think anything of it after you clear all your wanted levels. Later in the game your character actually runs into an angry widow and goes on about the people you killed and gives you the option to be kind of continue being an ass in response. This game as really soured all other open world games because of the level of detail and thought put into it.
I started Red Dead 2, but it didn’t grab me.

Looked good, but I wasn’t hooked quick enough.
 
A lot of times bosses are an impediment to me getting back to exploring and having fun.
I feel the same.

I absolutely love the Souls games, but dislike the bosses.

For me, the fun is exploring the worlds, and finding new areas. Being stuck on a boss for hours, or even days, just ruins the experience.
 
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I feel the same.

I absolutely love the Souls games, but dislike the bosses.

For me, the fun is exploring the worlds, and finding new areas. Being stuck on a boss for hours, or even days, just ruins the experience.
Yep, I loved exploring the world in Elden Ring. That's why I had no shame about using a mage build and blasting some bosses into oblivion.
 
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I started Red Dead 2, but it didn’t grab me.

Looked good, but I wasn’t hooked quick enough.
it definitely is a slow burn and not for everyone. If you are expecting a GTA but Western it is not even close. This is a slow build immersive game. I spend time just riding around aimlessly and let happen what happens.
 
For those not liking open world games, you might like Ghost of Tsushima and the new Ghost of Yotei. They're open world but have tried to completely get rid of the UI and nature guides you instead of markers, lines, arrows, etc. The wind, birds, foxes, light bugs, etc are used to guide. And the combat, yeah well, the combat is made of pure awesomesauce.

PS both games have a completely different protagonist, location and time so you can play them in either order, but since GoT was made for PS4, it's better to start with that one.
 
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For those not liking open world games, you might like Ghost of Tsushima and the new Ghost of Yotei. They're open world but have tried to completely get rid of the UI and nature guides you instead of markers, lines, arrows, etc. The wind, birds, foxes, light bugs, etc are used to guide. And the combat, yeah well, the combat is made of pure awesomesauce.

PS both games have a completely different protagonist, location and time so you can play them in either order, but since GoT was made for PS4, it's better to start with that one.
They truly are beautiful games and a lot of fun, but again I have been so spoiled by Red Dead 2. I was playing Ghost of Yoti yesterday and some NPC conversation comes up. At the end the NPC says it has to get back to work and the little dialogue scene ends. You would think the NPC would not head somewhere to do "work" but no, the NPC literally just stands there staring off into the distance. Red Dead 2 you can literally follow people go about their day with dialogue and seemingly having things to do. Would love if developers put as much effort into their games as Rock Star does. Of course they won't because of the time it takes, but it then leaves you with a comparison of most developers basically making a fast food burger and RockStar making the ultimate fancy burger using wagyu beef.
 
They truly are beautiful games and a lot of fun, but again I have been so spoiled by Red Dead 2. I was playing Ghost of Yoti yesterday and some NPC conversation comes up. At the end the NPC says it has to get back to work and the little dialogue scene ends. You would think the NPC would not head somewhere to do "work" but no, the NPC literally just stands there staring off into the distance. Red Dead 2 you can literally follow people go about their day with dialogue and seemingly having things to do. Would love if developers put as much effort into their games as Rock Star does. Of course they won't because of the time it takes, but it then leaves you with a comparison of most developers basically making a fast food burger and RockStar making the ultimate fancy burger using wagyu beef.
I think that money is the issue there. Programming all those NPC takes a lot of time and effort, and thus money. Not all studio's have that kind of budget at hand.
 
I think that money is the issue there. Programming all those NPC takes a lot of time and effort, and thus money. Not all studio's have that kind of budget at hand.
I do agree, but the Rock Star shows if you put the time in you get the return. They are also not a game studio that is pandering to political and social agendas which has them more free to make actually compelling stories that are believable... at least where Red Dead is concerned. GTA is an over the top game obviously. Doing a quick google search on a recent Assassins Creed game Shadows. It has generated $180 million. The game cost $100 million to make though and again from google it said it was 4 years in development.

Now comparing to Red Dead 2 which made $725 million in the first 3 days and estimated to date 4 to 5 billion. Game took 8 years to make and cost $370 - $540 million.

In that time Ubisoft released 8 Assassins Creed games. Chat GPT estimates those 8 games brought in maybe 4.2 billion. And ChatGPT roughly gathered that the production costs for all 8 games was around $750 million to $1.1 billion.

So two very different approaches it seems. Ubisoft pushing at least 1 game a year, Rockstar working 8 to 10 years to release a game. I think it is safe to say the replay value of RockStar games is far higher because the quality is that much better. I say this over and over with Red Dead 2, I keep finding new things just about every time I play the game and I have played the game a lot since original release on PS4 and on PC as well. To summarize it all I would take quality over quantity. If Ubisoft put the effort in imagine what they could accomplish and what sort of game they could bring out with 8 years of development assuming they had creative vision at the top.
 
I think that money is the issue there. Programming all those NPC takes a lot of time and effort, and thus money. Not all studio's have that kind of budget at hand.
Plus Ghost had some wonderful side characters with interesting stories. I'd much rather effort be put into that than have some unnamed NPCs have realistic work schedules.
 
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Plus Ghost had some wonderful side characters with interesting stories. I'd much rather effort be put into that than have some unnamed NPCs have realistic work schedules.
I think the side stories are ok in. Yoti, not the best and far from the worst. I would prefer time to bring about a realistic world to explore with plenty to do as well. Red Dead 2 again is the perfect example where they you have amazing side stories as well as characters who don't just stand their like statues. RockStar has shown it can be done, but studios want the quick buck and keep releasing basically the same thing with just different skins on it.
 
  • Crafting
    • As a subset of crafting, over-configurability of items.
    • Halo Infinite is a perfect shooter - the guns are the guns, and you can't change them.
  • Seasons that reset / obsolesce items, especially the stuff you crafted (and this kids is why we don't play Diablo IV any more).
  • Obsolescing the stuff you had to grind to acquire, by introducing newer better items in competitive games (*glares at GTAO introducing faster and faster cars*)
  • Excessive attempts to write characters and narrative and non-gameplay garbage like shoehorning in a RPG character customisation (everything about Back 4 Blood that made it suck, despite it pretending to be a spiritual successor to Left 4 Dead, arguably the greatest FPS game ever made - hint, the spiritual successor for L4D is WWZ: Apocalypse).
  • Cool in-game gear, that you don't get to use because they're too much fun and make the map designer's work pointless; looking at you, Halo Reach jetpack.
  • Any FPS that lacks a grapple arm. The Halo Infinite Grapple Arm is the single best, most fun mechanic in any FPS game ever created.
 
I think the side stories are ok in. Yoti, not the best and far from the worst. I would prefer time to bring about a realistic world to explore with plenty to do as well. Red Dead 2 again is the perfect example where they you have amazing side stories as well as characters who don't just stand their like statues. RockStar has shown it can be done, but studios want the quick buck and keep releasing basically the same thing with just different skins on it.
I don't know if I agree with that games like Ghost were a quick buck effort. It felt AAA to me.

RDR2 had an absolutely brutal development cycle and not everyone could (or should) try to match that.

 
I agree with you @wonderings that RDR2 is an absolute masterpiece and that the ROI that Rockstar got was absolutely worth it, but the money needs to be put upfront for the development and I think that's the problem for many studios. They can't spent a billion dollars on production and develop for 8 years on a game.

Suckerpunch has decently balanced their two Ghost games between budget/development time and the quality and I get @MisterSavage when he says it felt AAA. I absolutely loved those two games. Platinum trophy on both and waiting for the free Legends DLC for Yotei.

And Ubisoft... They've embraced quantity over quality several years ago but I hope their dropping sales these last years are a wake up call. Personal examples: I absolutely loved the first Far Cry games. Got the platinum trophy on those. And I didn't even finish Far Cry 6 with it's bloat content everywhere... Same story for Assassin's Creed. I didn't even buy Shadows, where Odyssey was a no-brainer pre-order for me after the masterpiece that Origins was. I'll get it eventually, when it's at €20 or so.
 
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