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Then you do confirm that the material change is a step DOWN in terms of scratch resistence? It is thiner, lighter, but more scratch-prone.

Now I agree Apple did get a lot of bad publicity for this simply because they are Apple, but to deny the problem altogether and try to justify it with 'what you expect' is ridiculous. I'll tell you what I expected: I expected no compromises from a device 2 years in design and costing $650+.

You're completely ignoring the fact that it's more durable. The all glass design may be less prone to scratching, but one bad drop and the entire phone is in pieces. I don't know about you, but if I was paying $650+ for a phone, I'd rather it scratch than shatter. Honestly, the risk is higher that you'll drop your phone as opposed to throwing a set of keys against it. I've had my iPhone since launch and there's not a single scratch. The only people who have problems with the scratching are people who should probably get a case for their phone anyway.
 
I went to my local Apple shop and looked at the display phones. They are all a total mess around the bottom where they contact the display stand and around the lighting port. The stands are made out of perspex so the finish on these phones must be very soft.

Not necessarily. Those demo units get severely manhandled all day long. Folks pulling them out and dropping them on the tables to use the chargers on their own phones, kids dropping them, banging them around. Folks pulling them out and then slamming them back into the chargers. Basically it's not really normal use anymore than trying to bend a phone, giving it to your toddler with some metal keys to scratch it up etc.
 
Well aluminum scratches. If you have an issue with that, don't buy the phone. It's that simple.

The normal anodizing coating doesn't scratch that easily, as evidenced by the many iPhone 5 that are still flawless after 1-3 weeks of normal use and the few videos in which members deliberately tried to damage it to no success. If you have a unit with defective anodizing coating, just swap it out for a non-defective one. It's that simple.
 
I expected no compromises from a device 2 years in design and costing $650+.

If that is what you expect then the iphone is not for you. Because you will never have the perfection you demand. Well not until you design your perfect phone and start selling it. Let us know when that will be so we can all rush out to buy one
 
If so many phones are being scratched at the factory what do people think is going to happen when they actually use the phone?

Just dont order the black iphone, anyone who does is going to seriously regret it after a year of use.

So. You had your iPhone 5 for a year already? I think lots of people aren't having issues with scuffing, and will be very happy in one year.

If it comes out of the boxed scratched...then take it back.
 
Let me get this right. Phil says its normal and now they want to slow production for quality control.

Phil said it's normal and some blog is claiming that they slowed down production and it's over QC. Both if which could be total lies told by someone with zero information but a desire for attention
 
I get why this important... I really do... but it occurs to me that a ton of effort and cost is being spent to make something perfect that will end up getting made imperfect within a few weeks of use by most buyers.

It almost seems like it would be more productive to add a "scratch and dent" area in the refurb store and let people who intend to actually use their iPhones, get a small discount for taking a pre-scratched phone. But I doubt Apple would ever go that route.

Tell me ONE other product/manufacturer that could get away with providing a brand new device/appliance/car/toy/etc that came with a scratch already on it and customers would a) accept it b) state that since it was going to get scratched anyway - no big deal.

Someone actually using his brain. Correct. A design flaw would not be occurring in well under 10% of units. Well under 2% even. Flawless would be the rarity.

This is more likely a flaw in delivery. Those boxes aren't all that protective.

Why are you letting Apple and/or Foxconn off the hook? It's already been reported that it's a QA issue. It's not a shipping issue.
 
If that is what you expect then the iphone is not for you. Because you will never have the perfection you demand. Well not until you design your perfect phone and start selling it. Let us know when that will be so we can all rush out to buy one

Umm.... an iPhone user since 3Gs...
 
Maybe I'll be able to buy a slightly scratched iPhone 5 exchange for $99. A black sharpie pen is a buck. I'll be dollars ahead!
 
It's simple - Phil's comment is a PR move designed to protect Apple. They don't want to disclose a problem publicly because if they do, then there would likely be an uptick in the amount of returns, even those who are not having the scratching issues.

And your source to back that up? Other than out of your butt?


Thought so. You can't back up your guess anymore than the blogs or even Bloomberg can back up with they are saying via actual sources.

Aluminum scratches. Any scientist will tell you that. It is a fact. And that is what Phil said.

As for the contention that they don't want to admit to a problem. Even if it existed, they don't have to. The blogs and forums have hyped up the issue so much that Apple 'admitting' it isn't going to do much to change things since everyone and their uncle is returning the phones for even a spec of dust on it already
 
You're completely ignoring the fact that it's more durable. The all glass design may be less prone to scratching, but one bad drop and the entire phone is in pieces. I don't know about you, but if I was paying $650+ for a phone, I'd rather it scratch than shatter. Honestly, the risk is higher that you'll drop your phone as opposed to throwing a set of keys against it. I've had my iPhone since launch and there's not a single scratch. The only people who have problems with the scratching are people who should probably get a case for their phone anyway.

Thank you for that. First reasonable response out of the array of 'what did you expect' and 'you can afford a case' responses. You raise a good point, that it might be more scratch-prone, but less likely to get damaged when dropped (which I do, occasionally).

I am getting one, in fact, I stopped by Apple store to play with it a couple of times and can't wait. Now if only they annouce the unlocked version!
 
This is probably antithetical to the 2-year upgrade cycle, but how about designing a phone that wears in well? Think about a Zippo lighter. It looks clean and shiny when you first get it, but picks up little dents and scratches and wears IN, not OUT. It acquires the marks and signs of daily use, and that's not a bad thing. Putting a thin coat of anodization that shows scratches doesn't accomplish this. Nor does a glass back that will shatter upon fairly modest impacts. The original iPhone had a matte aluminum finish on the back. Not super flashy maybe, but definitely hides scratches better than the iPhone 5.

What we have now is this very unrealistic view that you're going to carry around this object every day, juggling it with whatever else you're holding, pulling it out probably dozens of times a day, putting it down on different surfaces — and somehow it's going to remain as this untouchably pure product, like the photos in the Apple ads. To that end, people mummify their phones in layers of protection so that somewhere underneath, even if they never see it, they know their phone is "perfect". Does this not seem absurd?

Sure, a Zippo is an imperfect analogy because it doesn't really have new features added to it constantly, but we will eventually get to the point where it's just not environmentally or socially sustainable to throw away all our expensive gadgets every 2-3 years so we can have millions of people mining, machining and assembling new ones.
 
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Uh, give me your phone, and i'll scratch it in a heartbeat.

I don't doubt anyone can deliberately scratch it, as we could do that on the original iPhone. However, the black shouldn't rub off with normal wiping or handling, which is what's happening to those with defective anodizing coating. I hope you can grasp this concept.
 
but allowing obviously damaged units full of nicks and scuffs and units with defective anodizing coating

There have been zero reports of such units. But nice job with the tabloid trash hyperbole. You should start a blog. You have the writing skills for it.

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How do you know with complete certainty that the writer is biased and has little or no facts?

Because I read the article and used my brain. Anyone with a senior high school reading comprehension level can see the quality of the writing, the holes in the logic etc.
 
Sorry to break the news to you but realistically there are only 3 basic materials to use for a phone and each have their own advantages and disadvantages:



Plastic = easiest to scratch and easy to crack and split on hard impacts but cheap to make

Glass = Hardest to scratch, but shatters on hard impacts

Aluminum = easier to scratch than glass, but difficult to break on hard impacts and can be made thinner


Apple has already gone with the plastic and the glass idea. Not much else to choose from.

You forgot about plastic being better for signal strength.
 
If you have a unit with defective anodizing coating, just swap it out for a non-defective one. It's that simple.

Great, I'll do that.

And in a month when I put my keys in the same pocket and they scratch the phone I can just go whine to Apple that they had better swap me for a new one, right. Cause that one must have a defective coating as well.

There's zero back up that that is the issue. In fact it likely isn't (outside of perhaps a few very select report) given that 90% of the reports are actually about the edges chipping etc. Not the back plate. So that is something of a different cause.


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Umm.... an iPhone user since 3Gs...

And? Just because this isn't your first iPhone doesn't negate that you clearly won't be happy with the iPhone 5 so don't buy it. No one is holding a gun to your head and saying you have to keep buying every iPhone now that you bought one. You are allowed to change.
 
Thank you for that. First reasonable response out of the array of 'what did you expect' and 'you can afford a case' responses. You raise a good point, that it might be more scratch-prone, but less likely to get damaged when dropped (which I do, occasionally).

I am getting one, in fact, I stopped by Apple store to play with it a couple of times and can't wait. Now if only they annouce the unlocked version!

I'd definitely recommend it! It looks and feels much nicer than the iPhone 4/4S design. As for the scratching, I wouldn't worry about it. I keep my phone nude, in my right pocket with nothing else. The only other places I ever have it are on safe tables, an iOttie car mount (great car mount if you're looking), and in my hand. So far so good!

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I don't doubt anyone can deliberately scratch it, as we could do that on the original iPhone. However, the black shouldn't rub off with normal wiping or handling, which is what's happening to those with defective anodizing coating. I hope you can grasp this concept.

I've not even heard of that problem, but I'm 100% sure a quick call to Apple for a free replacement unit would fix the problem instantly.
 
Not necessarily. Those demo units get severely manhandled all day long. Folks pulling them out and dropping them on the tables to use the chargers on their own phones, kids dropping them, banging them around. Folks pulling them out and then slamming them back into the chargers. Basically it's not really normal use anymore than trying to bend a phone, giving it to your toddler with some metal keys to scratch it up etc.

Well the rest of the phone looked fine just the bit in contact with the plastic stand was damaged, no keys or toddlers by the look of it. These were not marks due to dropping or mistreatment, this was down to wear caused by people removing and replacing the device on the stand. This shouldn't cause damage like this and from what I have seen it looks like a very soft alloy of aluminium has been used I guess to lower weight. In my opinion this is a poor choice of material and surface finish for the kind of wear marks I noticed happening to a metal casing against a plastic stand. I would be surprised if this is not changed in future versions of this device. The production problems alone should show that this is an example poor industrial design. My 4 looks brand new today, is over two years old and I have never used a case with it. I doubt the 5 would last more than a couple of month without showing significant signs of wear. The reports of the case bending while in peoples pockets would also suggest that the grade of aluminium used is very soft.
 
The tightened quality control standards have increased stress on workers responsible for manufacturing the parts, with Foxconn employees interviewed for the story noting that every single step of the manufacturing and assembly process has the potential to scratch the soft metal, resulting in a significant number of the metal iPhone bodies not making it through the process cleanly.

I'll most likely be stoned for stating this but I feel sorry for those workers. I don't care where or how you slice it, they're living where they work, stressed beyond human capacity, and for a phone. Yes, "it could be worse", but it could also be better.

As for the iPhone, Ive stated he loathes cases (god help anyone he sees at Cupertino with an iPhone in a case). The iPhone 5's front display is much thinner than the 4/4S models with use of new in-cell technology and thinner [supposedly stronger] glass. Yet many, and I truly am not exaggerating, have broken their front glass already in situations that previous models would have perfectly handled. Not forgetting the anodized aluminum backs are thin, much more prone to dents and scratches, and as many on MacRumors have attested could have benefitted from a better anodization process.

Until Apple realizes iPhone are small and easily dropped, they will always need a case. Period.
 
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Someone actually using his brain. Correct. A design flaw would not be occurring in well under 10% of units. Well under 2% even. Flawless would be the rarity.

This is more likely a flaw in delivery. Those boxes aren't all that protective. The ones they ship to their service bars come in trays that are so snug they don't drop out (I watched a Genius flip the tray out to remove the phone, didn't budge). But the retail ones are the same loose tray where the iphone can and does slide around. If it was manhandled in any way after production and packaging, scuffs would happen from impact with the box if it was hard enough. It's even possible that the finished hardware goes in a temp box to a center for software install and then final packaging and that was the in transit where the issues occurred. The software installers aren't likely inspecting them for physical issues because that would have been done at the hardware shop etc. So a few got out. There were 'sources' that said that all the affected units were a single production run so perhaps the 'fix' was to have the software house visually check the phones before proceeding to catch such issues.

Wrong Wrong Wrong. The dents and missing anodizing are not happening in shipping, they are happening during production. Poor design is the choice to use a cheap, low grade aluminum to save money. Design flaw.
 
Finally!
I've been waiting to launch day phone that came with some pretty bad nicks in it, but I didn't want to go through the exchange cycle, so, i'll probably be replacing it sometime this week with this news :D
 
They shouldn't "increase quality control standards", they should increase the standard of materials used. ;)
 
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