Industrial Design student, 15 vs. 17 inch

[razyorv]

Slightly amused at how this thread has turned into a debate of sorts.
One thing to note is that Solidworks currently only runs on Windows. And BootCamp is probably the best option, unless you have loads of RAM. As in 8GB and do Parallels/Fusion.

AutoCAD has a Mac version so you're good there.

It really depends on whether you want to take the minimalist approach, or want the full power. With a laptop you probably won't be doing power work, like rendering very much, so I would say your best is to focus on mobility. 13" or 15". Do all the heavy duty stuff on school computers. You'll end up doing that most of the time anyways, unless your school lacks good computers—which I doubt. Most ID students at my school don't even have a nice computer, we just use the Mac Pros and iMacs in the Studios.

 

[entatlrg]

I'm a career Industrial Designer and CEO of a small corporation. This may surprise some students but 80% of my work gets done on my 13" MacBook Air.

Bobby - the 17" is good for your needs, not everyone's.

I've owned a few 15" MBP's and most recently a 17" Quad MBP for 14 days ... nice machines, very fast. But my I can and do everything on my Air that I did on the MBP's without the added weight and bulk.

I prefer not to work from a desk, and I work long hours ... for staying on top of work and getting stuff done for my needs as an Industrial Designer my 13" Air and 27" ACD are my favorite tools and get used the most by far.

Between the 15 and 17" MBP it's a tough call, the 17" screen is beautiful, and the 15" is noticeably lighter on the lap and a little more 'handy' to carry and maneuver.

If I was to part with my Air and had to choose I'd likely buy the 17" again and just make a point of using a laptop table/tray instead of my lap ... if you're going to go bigger then may as well go all the way and get a large screen, imo.

 

[KazeKrazy]

When all these replies come to mind, you have to bring it all down to one question. What do YOU want?

Here are your basic questions to ask yourself when deciding.

• Do I need the portability, or is my back strong enough?
• Do I need the larger screen, or can I settle on 2 inches less?
• Will I be using it for much other thing, or is it just school?

My answers to these:

• Yes, I'm pretty weak...and I'd be bringing it to a hospital and I sit in a small recliner for 4 hours. The 17" would be rather bulky there.
• Nah, I'm on a 15.6" right now and my first laptop was a 13.7"...I'm fine with the smaller screen.
• Of course, graphics, school work, writing, my journalism career in high school, web surfing, general usage...

Again, it all depends on what you want. They both have practically the same specs, so the question is...Do you need the screen size?
When I buy my model, I'll also be getting a 23" monitor just in case I ever need that size boost for something...

 

[palpatine]

I don't know how much you will actually be working on your own computer. I suspect, if you really need the processing power, the ones in the computer labs will be far more useful. Of course, that means you'll be spending a lot of time in a windowless room on a computer touched by the unwashed masses (seriously--studies have found fecal matter on school keyboards).

So, will you be hanging out at coffee shops sipping lattes? Drinking beer in the dorm room? It all depends on how you work. I am in the humanities, so I don't need massive processing power or gargantuan screens. I went for the 13", and I do my work anywhere I want.

If I wasn't in the humanities, I would get an iMac (as someone already mentioned) or a MacPro for the dorm, and an 11" mba for the coffee shops. Whatever you get, it looks like it will be a nice machine, so don't forget insurance

 

[icbreeze]

I'm in the 3rd year of my Industrial Design degree in Australia, i've just updated from my old 12" Powerbook G4 to the new 15" MBP high-end, Antiglare/ HighRes with SDD. Totally worth the money. The computer should hopefully last me 4-5yrs and future proof the computer, till the computer dies.

I run the latest programs like Keyshot2, AutoCAD, Adobe CS5 and MS Office all at once. No lag time, even though it's only on the standard 4GB Ram. I figure in a few years time once RAM prices start to drop i will then start to upgrade the internals of the computer. I hear that the new 15" MBP high-end can go up to 16GB of RAM, which according to a few people over macrumor forum is nearly on par with 2008 Mac Pro. Don't quote me on that.

Technically speaking a 13" should be relatively fine. In the course that i do, when i was in 1st year we didn't do much on 3D renderings or CAD work. i mean it would've been great had i known but you didnt need it. We learnt the basics to design before we moved off into the sketching techniques and etc.. I still remember drawing up the engineering drawings with all those circle templates and then doing up all the centre lines/ title boxes. Ooo fun times... haha

But yea 13" should fit all your needs, my friend who is in the same yr as me runs on the 13" from last year. That little computer did some pretty big file renderings and it still was fine. Except for the fact it heats up pretty quick. He plugs his computer into an external monitor for the extra screen space.

I think getting a 17" is a bit extreme, yes it may give you the screen space but at the end of the day the things gonna be like heavy to lug around. With design school such as Industrial Design especially you will be lugging around models, posters, portfolios and etc.. you don't want the extra weight. Trust me! Plus your probably better off getting an high-end (or near) iMac, you can do way more things with it than a laptop.

My advice, weigh your options in terms of how much you want to spend and what your potentially gonna end up using program wise. No point buying a new computer when you won't be using it until the next year. By that case, you might as well hold off until they do the redesign of the MBP and Lion becomes a standard.

Only reason why i bought a new laptop was cause my powerbook G4 didn't have enough computing power to handle all these new applications. If i had it my way i would have just stuck to my 12" Powerbook until the thing died.

*sigh, i should get back to doing my studio work now... instead of procrastinating, haha life of a designer procrastinate procrastinate

 

[Bobby Corwen]

1920x1200 isn't twice as many pixels as 1680x1050, Bobby. And yes, we know, you love your 17-inch MBP. However, I'd go with the 15-inch model – even with the hi-res option you're still pushing fewer pixels, so you'll get get slightly better performance. Obviously Apple 'compromised' the GPU for the 17-inch by not making it more powerful.

Yes sir I sure do!

Well when I was saying it's double of course I was trying to prove a point so i was referring to the standard not the upgrade so it's a more clear cut/concise point that gets to illustrating the heart of the concept I am trying to convey and the choices I am trying to clarify.

17" 1920x1200= 2,304,000
15" 1440x900 = 1,296,00

So 2.3 is essentially about double 1.2.

To be reasonable the rez for the upgraded screen which is more condensed into the 15 is 1680x1050= 1,764,000 which is about only 30% smaller but that is still not worth losing for the weight, size, or a tiny tiny framerate tick. (either model you choose will be a beast on games in 2011 no matter what. -max settings)


Also, a desktop can do many things a laptop can't do. Run without batteries, support more than four monitors, use multiple GPUs and more than 16GB of RAM, have up to twelve cores instead of four… if you're looking for performance and screen size (which seem to be your primary reasons for going for a 17-inch MBP) a desktop will win every time.

As of today Sandy Bridge is right up there with all those cores.

Why is running without batteries an asset? Batteries never killed anyone or got in anyone's way. You can't even see it.

Most people don't have one monitor, let alone 2. If they have 4 it would be insane. Why would you ever need 5? Can't imagine that scenario.

Ideal is a 17" Laptop with two 30" inch displays side by side. That way you have 2/3 screens, power, and the ability to close the lid, unplug it, take it with you, open the lid, continue in the forest. A desktop is redundant unless you work in an industry that needs those desktop advantages like a post processing house, not a student.


As far as the 6490M vs. the 6750M -*the lower-end chip should be decent, but as always the higher-end will offer better performance. I couldn't say how much though –*CATIA on my desktop (with a 4890) compared to my laptop (GMA 950) is no contest, while the difference between the MBPs is probably much less.

...not to mention other intangibles like better louder speakers, better cooling, handy 3rd USB port, and psychological intimidation due to having the biggest and best.

 

[Mackilroy]

psychological intimidation due to having the biggest and best.

I think you're the only one who believes that ever happens. I've yet to see one person get intimidated by another having a bigger or better computer.

TSE, any decisions?

 

[TenderBranson]

Get the 15. You'll get to a point where you'll find the 17 a bit too unwieldy

 

[Bobby Corwen]

I think you're the only one who believes that ever happens. I've yet to see one person get intimidated by another having a bigger or better computer.

TSE, any decisions?

I respect if you dont agree.

Do you deny that human beings are competitive by nature though?

What about generational and societal differences between us and our cultures? A general sense perspective will tell us that there are literally billions of friendship possibilities between people on earth and different variable create different values in different culture. We are all simply the totality of our socially transmitted behavior patterns, morals, institutions, ideas, values, and all other products of human work and thought.

I respect your opinion, but having said that, I get mad girls jockin me when they see my undeniably expensive 17 incher.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

Get the 15. You'll get to a point where you'll find the 17 a bit too unwieldy

If the 17 is unwieldy, then the 15 is too.

Put one on top of another and you will realize this perception is just an illusion.

Most people are probably coming to this conlusion based off of seeing one on the table in the apple store, not actually properly spending time with one for a week at least i am assuming

 

[Uffish Thought]

The weight difference is 1 pound, 5.6 lbs, vs 6.6 lbs.

The screen is used 100% of the time when the machine is on. I love the extra real estate and personally would not want anything less. I also cannot imagine what I might be using this machine for in 5-6 years.

Future proofing? Maybe a bit. Using the 17" screen everyday, all day? Yes.

Do I use it on my lap? No, I have an iPad for that sort of use; browsing, reading...

Battery life is a solid 7 hours of normal use.

 

[entatlrg]

I respect if you dont agree.

Do you deny that human beings are competitive by nature though?

What about generational and societal differences between us and our cultures? A general sense perspective will tell us that there are literally billions of friendship possibilities between people on earth and different variable create different values in different culture. We are all simply the totality of our socially transmitted behavior patterns, morals, institutions, ideas, values, and all other products of human work and thought.

I respect your opinion, but having said that, I get mad girls jockin me when they see my undeniably expensive 17 incher.

For anyone to understand any of your posts you'd need to share what you're smoking

 

[ack401]

I actually faced the exact same set of questions, and I settled on the 15" 2.2 with the HR screen. My rationale was that even the 17" screen resolution wasn't enough real estate for some of the stuff I do (Photoshop/Illustrator/AfterEffects, and AutoCAD/Rhino/3DMAX in bootcamp...), so I'd rather have the same performance spec in a cheaper, more portable package, and then dock to the same external monitor I would have used with the 17".

Then again, I generally WORK in the same place, so I can leave the larger screen there, and I don't ever have to lug the external monitor around. When I move the laptop, I generally only need it for Word, Safari, and very light work in the above software suite--or to attach it to a lo-res projector and show slides/models that way. It's not like I'm trying to model in a classroom, away from my normal workstation. So your mileage may very.

 

[Blipp]

If the 17 is unwieldy, then the 15 is too.

Put one on top of another and you will realize this perception is just an illusion.

This is 100% correct. I have a 2010 15" issued from work and my own 2011 17" and when you stack the two together the size differences are indeed negligible as is the weight. The 17" is heavier but the difference is maybe a pound and hardly a game breaker. What I really bought the 17" for was for the higher pixel density and have been extremely satisfied. Don't let the weight scare you at all, it is every bit as portable as a 15" MBP. Hell, I've carried both laptops in the same bag on more than one occasion and my shoulder is still intact.

 

[Glial]

Get the 15. You'll get to a point where you'll find the 17 a bit too unwieldy

I agree; I've had two 17", a 13", and now a new i7 QC 15". I prefer the 15". Large enough to use without an external monitor and small enough to keep with me constantly. The 17"s I had were a pain to fly with. 90% of the time they stayed on my desk hooked to a monitor.

 

[TSE]

I think I am pretty decided on the 15 inch. Thanks guys.

Do you think the High end 15 inch macbook pro is worth it, or should I just go for the low end? The thing that concerns me is the graphics card... I don't do anything TOO intensive, but I want the computer to last a super long time and I might be doing some of the school work on my laptop.

And another thing.... how the heck did Anandtech get almost 9 hours of battery life out of the 15 inch? Does anyone else get this kind of battery life?

 

[Bobby Corwen]

I agree; I've had two 17", a 13", and now a new i7 QC 15". I prefer the 15". Large enough to use without an external monitor and small enough to keep with me constantly. The 17"s I had were a pain to fly with. 90% of the time they stayed on my desk hooked to a monitor.

And the 15 will probably stay 90% hooked up too considering it's like the same size and not a MacBook air or something.

 

[Eternal 28]

I think I am pretty decided on the 15 inch. Thanks guys.

Do you think the High end 15 inch macbook pro is worth it, or should I just go for the low end? The thing that concerns me is the graphics card... I don't do anything TOO intensive, but I want the computer to last a super long time and I might be doing some of the school work on my laptop.

And another thing.... how the heck did Anandtech get almost 9 hours of battery life out of the 15 inch? Does anyone else get this kind of battery life?

If you plan on keeping it for a long mine as well get the high end model. It has a way better graphics card, compatible with 1600 mhz DDR 3 memory, supports AES/ NI and turbo boost up to 3.3 ghz vs 2.9 ghz on the 2.0.