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Inexpensive Atom-Powered 'Netbooks' Popular at Launch

aaarrrgggh said:
The problem is that they are letting a whole market slip through their fingers which has a dramatic impact on OSX adoption. This market is mixed between people wanting a cheap portable and people wanting a light travel companion. The second half of the market may already own a Mac, but are forced to Linux or Windows because of Apple not having an offering. The first group are squeezed out by the factor of two for an entry level computer.

If the economy is as bad as people think, then being a premium product isn't necessarily where you want to be. If Apple can pull one out of the hat next month I'll get at least three immediately. We're a two-mac household, and the alternative is to ditch my wife's iBook and go for an Asus (or maybe now that I have heard of them a MSI Wind).

Getting to the next echelon for Apple in market share is a tough battle. They can still charge a 20-25% premium over the competition and make it attractive; no destruction of margins on this...
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At least some members of our local Mac User group seem to be friendly to the acceptance of open source alternatives in the netbook range since Apple isn't competing there yet.
Open hostility or disdain doesn't occur and members have done the show and tell thing with such gadgets as the EEE and with Linux and open source software.

These are serious Apple users, not just curious members of the general public.
 
Evangelion said:
That's a load of crap. For starters, you can cut and paste on the EEE. Other things that you can do on the EEE (or any other netbook) that you can't do on the iTouch include:

- Run proper applications. And I mean stuff like office-suites, audiotools, programming-tools, Photoshop etc. etc.

- Open tabs in the background in the browser. I can' believe the iTouch STILL doesn't have this!

- Run a proper multitasking OS

- type with a proper keyboard

- Have videochats using Skype

- Upgrade the machine to something better

- Install apps with no limitations. And by apps I mean something else than "yet another tip-calculator".

Now, don't get me wrong. I have an iPod touch and I love that thing. I never leave home without it. But I also understand the fact that it does NOT in any shape or form replace a laptop, even a tiny "limited" laptop like the EEE. I don't have a netbook either, but I have been thinking about getting one.

If you can do more with an iPhone/touch than you can do with a laotop, why aren't people replacing their laptops with iPods? Because they are not alternatives to each other, and anyone who claims that they are, is deluding themselves.
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Agreed. I have an Asus EEE 900 that has replaced the MacBook as my couch-based internet device, I never even considered an iPod Touch for that purpose. The Eee is a great little device.
 
So far these Netbooks haven't offered us anything especially technologically innovative, but it's nice that small and cheap are no longer mutually exclusive. I picked up an Acer Aspire One a couple months ago for $304 using the live.com cashback.

Pros: weighs 2.1 pounds, boots Linux in 12 seconds, no HDD noise/vibration, decent keyboard (with dedicated PgUp/PgDn keys!), usable screen size/resolution (vs the EEE701's wimpy 7" WVGA), and reasonable performance for standard apps.

Cons: the touchpad is small and its buttons are loud, battery life is mediocre, it has some power management quirks (takes ~10 seconds to come out of standby), Linpus has some dependency issues, 1024x600 resolution is a bit restrictive, and it's underpowered for anything intensive.

What I'd like to see is on a Netbook:

  • Dedicated DSP (would improve battery life and performance). While the Atom can play h.264 VGA video fairly well, it drops frames here and there, which is sad given that my iPhone plays the same files smoothly (even my Dell Axim X50v PDA from several years ago had an h.264-capable-DSP)
  • 1280x768 resolution in a 10-11" screen (the HP Mininote's DPI is too high)
  • Keep it lightweight. I considered an Asus 1000H, but at 3.2 pounds, it's 50% heavier than my Aspire One (and given that the 6-cell, 10" MSI Wind is only 2.6 pounds, there's no excuse)
  • Linux (though it can always be installed later)
  • Dedicated PgUp/PgDn buttons and keyboard width must take up entire footprint (like the Aspire One's)
  • Two finger tap for secondary click (like on Apple laptops)
 
barcodebawtv said:
I consider the iPhone and the Touch to be their "compact laptop" They can do more, and have more storage than the Asus Eee PC - plus they're cheaper
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you are joking right? I have an iPod touch and it in no way, no way at all, replaces a notebook.

And there is a reason why they are selling, they are what laptops should have been all along, they are much better for the money than most laptops out there currently, they are dirt cheap and they do what they are suppose to. Not to mention they are actually portable (for example my 15 inch toshiba is not really and my new EEE 1000h is) and the battery lasts long enough to actually get something accomplished on it
 
Lancetx said:
No offense, but just because you aren't doesn't mean that nobody else out there is. I quickly found after buying my iPhone that I was rarely ever using my MacBook anymore, so I sold it as opposed to letting it continue to sit at home and collect dust.
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Of course there are individuals out there that have no need for anything more than an iTouch, but fact remains that the two devices are not alternatives to each other. You don't write texts with an iTouch, you don't program with it, you dont copy/paste with it, you dont give presentations or create them.

If you only used your laptop for music, email and web, iTouch MIGHT be enough.
 
Evangelion said:
Of course there are individuals out there that have no need for anything more than an iTouch, but fact remains that the two devices are not alternatives to each other. You don't write texts with an iTouch, you don't program with it, you dont copy/paste with it, you dont give presentations or create them.
Click to expand...
Wait you program with netbooks? YOU CAN do all those things with the touch. It's just that nobody has taken the time to design the software.

If you only used your laptop for music, email and web, iTouch MIGHT be enough.
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Isn't that the whole point of a netbook anyways? Something small and light you can do simple tasks with?

Any netbook that Apple does come out with I bet it's getting to have the ipod touch's hardware and software in it. Just a larger screen and a keyboard for starting at $600 the LEAST.
 
puffnstuff said:
Wait you program with netbooks? YOU CAN do all those things with the touch. It's just that nobody has taken the time to design the software.



Isn't that the whole point of a netbook anyways? Something small and light you can do simple tasks with?

Any netbook that Apple does come out with I bet it's getting to have the ipod touch's hardware and software in it. Just a larger screen and a keyboard for starting at $600 the LEAST.
Click to expand...

Give me a break? My MSI Wind is hooked into my home network (via CAT5). I can only do wireless with my iPod touch. I can print from my notebook, use any USB peripheral I want, use any Bluetooth peripheral I want, and use ANY operating system I want. I also have a real keyboard. I can hook it up to a monitor or TV.

Stop trying to make the iPod touch/iPhone out to be more than what it is. An MSI Wind can do anything a normal laptop can do (albeit at a speed disadvantage). An iPod touch/iPhone CANNOT -- PERIOD -- END OF DISCUSSION.

The point of a netbook is to have an affordable notebook in a small package that can still do 99% of the things you would do on a normal laptop. The fact that most run Windows XP opens up more opportunities to you than an iPod touch ever could.
 
Mazda 3s said:
Give me a break? My MSI Wind is hooked into my home network (via CAT5). I can only do wireless with my iPod touch. I can print from my notebook, use any USB peripheral I want, use any Bluetooth peripheral I want, and use ANY operating system I want. I also have a real keyboard. I can hook it up to a monitor or TV.

Stop trying to make the iPod touch/iPhone out to be more than what it is. An MSI Wind can do anything a normal laptop can do (albeit at a speed disadvantage). An iPod touch/iPhone CANNOT -- PERIOD -- END OF DISCUSSION.

The point of a netbook is to have an affordable notebook in a small package that can still do 99% of the things you would do on a normal laptop. The fact that most run Windows XP opens up more opportunities to you than an iPod touch ever could.
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I'm not having an argument about if the netbook is better over the touch. I was just pointing out that it can do certain things because someone pointed out it cannot . Geesh calm down! :backs out of thread slowly:
 
puffnstuff said:
I'm not having an argument about if the netbook is better over the touch. I was just pointing out that it can do certain things because someone pointed out it cannot . Geesh calm down! :backs out of thread slowly:
Click to expand...

Apologizes, slowly backs out, and buys puffnstuff a beer :p
 
I saw the Acer One Linux version on sale for $329, and the WinXP one for $349. :eek:

The more I think about it, Apple is probably not going to compete in this "space".

Maybe Apple will come out with a slightly larger Touch, called an iPad (updated Newton) instead.

Those who want a Netbook with OS X are going to have to do some hacking.
 
Brain dump on Apple inspired netbook.

Sorry for the verbosity, necessary as i think there's merit to the concept of iPod touch + keyboard as Apple's answer. This is opposed to squeezing macbook into netbook arena which i think is what most are secretly hoping here. I'm sure many will not like this idea, but i think it's the most likely way they'd introduce one without killing the laptop lines.

Netbook analysis, an Apple style reaction.

Price $<500 to $700 (low end within $100 of the competition)

Name - iBook (precedent for re-using names in apple). Also sits nicely between iPod and MacBook nomenclatures.

Size - equivalent to other netbooks

Form - clamshell, with flip screen tablet mode

Screen - ~8-10" transflective screen (double iphone resolution 800x700)

Architecture - Atom or Arm 11 (choice based on pricing/volume/Appliance or not/PA Semi)

OS - Closer to iphone os X than macos X. (functional restriction to prevent cannabalisation)

UI - iPhone style in tablet mode, unlikely to have finder/dock but will have filesystem available to multiple apps. Probably an extension of iphone UI supporting physical keyboard, possible touchpad. Definite implementation of cut and paste (could be the reason why we haven't seen it yet). Accelerometer certain.

Storage - 8-32GB onboard flash, utilise mobileme cloud & back to my mac for extended storage and syncing. Probable cloud service or server option for institutions wishing to deploy large numbers of these perhaps with online time machine?

Battery Life - If using Atom, then comparible to other netbooks, ie. ~4-6 hrs. If using Arm 11 SoC and taking full advantage of power savings from SoC paired with a typical 3-6 cell netbook battery, ~8-10hrs. In ebook mode battery life could be as much as 500hrs.

IO - iPod dock for PC sync/Accessories, Headphone socket, webcam, microphone, Wifi b/g certain, HSDPA & Bluetooth unlikely options.

Bundled Software - re-jigged iWorks & eBook apps (killer features will be ebooks with online store, mobile iChat, notetaking, blogging and adhoc collaborative working with other netbooks & full size machines (simple wireless exchange)). Spotlight App to find local and remote files. Tweak key apps to take advantage of greater real estate/horizontal orientation (Mail/iPod/Calendar).

Extendability - App store (might leverage app store by being compatible with existing iphone apps (scaled up x2) (if ARM Architecture)???). Would there be non-DRM option to install software like you do on a mac (probably not if intended as appliance), Schools will love this, low maintenance, locked down, less chance of kids misusing it.

Key hardware - Smaller chiclet keyboard 80%, 8-10" display with electronic paper mode. Tablet screen flipping mechanism. System board probably only a slight variant of iPod Touch, allowing super slim form factor & volume component costs.

Release - May 2009 in preparation for school season. Upcoming Oct release unlikely as school season over and release alongside macbook and pro refreshes will overshadow them. Also an opportunity to sell multitouch in traditional higher return laptops first before democratising the technology.

Why it won't impinge on macbooks.
Single core slow CPU really only suitable for single tasking, perhaps with background music playback. Onboard storage makes it unsuitable for users full storage requirements. Screensize unsuitable for multimedia creation. Software limited to appliance style apps, ie. this is not a PC, rather a grown up ipod.

Why it won't impinge on ipod/iphone sales.
More expensive for the same storage size as a touch. Not pocketable. Might be bought in preference to an iPod touch for someone who really likes movies on the go (minority and anyway you're upselling).

Intended customers - Schools, College Students, eBook users, mobile bloggers, 2nd computer buyer.
 
MikeDTyke said:
Sorry for the verbosity, necessary as i think there's merit to the concept of iPod touch + keyboard as Apple's answer. This is opposed to squeezing macbook into netbook arena which i think is what most are secretly hoping here. I'm sure many will not like this idea, but i think it's the most likely way they'd introduce one without killing the laptop lines.

Netbook analysis, an Apple style reaction.

Price $<500 to $700 (low end within $100 of the competition)

Name - iBook (precedent for re-using names in apple). Also sits nicely between iPod and MacBook nomenclatures.

...snip....
Click to expand...

Almost perfect for me. I need more storage space though - i'd rather load up what i need on there for a few weeks. Well, i guess i COULD buy a Turbo H264 thing and convert my MPEG2 files..... i just don't have TIME right now to do it.

Going back to the iBook name would be interesting too - and fits the niche perfectly.

May... i have to hear about this before February 2.

I need a working headphone jack though - that could be a my sticking point with the hack version.
 
MikeDTyke said:
Sorry for the verbosity, necessary as i think there's merit to the concept of iPod touch + keyboard as Apple's answer. This is opposed to squeezing macbook into netbook arena which i think is what most are secretly hoping here. I'm sure many will not like this idea, but i think it's the most likely way they'd introduce one without killing the laptop lines.

Netbook analysis, an Apple style reaction..
Click to expand...


Now you got me thinking that Apple may actually do something...

Maybe that's where iLife Mobile and iWork Mobile come in??? :eek:
 
personally, an apple netbook would not appeal

first, the battery would probably be sealed, worst idea ever, if the system locks up, which it will since its a mac, you have to wait for the battery to drain

It will cost more than it should or than its worth

It will end up like the HP mini note, appearance more important than actual function
 
Not a smaller MacBook Air

I would personally love to have a convertable tablet, and I can appreciate the attraction to a svelte computer like the MBA only smaller, but either of those products would fail miserably to do what Apple needs to pull off here. They would simply be too expensive, and anything without a user-replaceable battery (or a minimum of 6-7 hours runtime in a sealed unit) will die a miserable death.

Also, if anything with the iPhone's version of OSX is pondered for this thing, it will be tragic: The AppStore has already shown its weakness for products that conflict with Apple's vision. You need to be able to copy applications from a main computer for about half of the market, and likely 80% of the early adopters.

Onboard ethernet is mandatory, as is at least two USB ports, video out, and Firewire might actually be a good choice (less CPU burden). 3.5G Radio options and flush SD slot would push the capabilities significantly.

(The SD slot is so un-Apple though I know Steve would never let it happen. It's needed though, because there has to be a cheap way to increase storage and / or transition files.)

Price is limited to $599.

Barring that, Apple could just add a bluetooth keyboard profile to an oversized Touch, but you are still stuck with the external display challenge.
 
elcid said:
Listen to either TWiT or gdgt's new podcast this week and you will see why Apple won't enter this market.

One of the guys says he was sitting next to a rep from Sony who said netbooks are "a race to the bottom". There are such small margins in the netbooks arena that Sony (who is a higher priced, "better quality" brand like Apple) is very reluctant to get into that market.
Click to expand...

That "race to the bottom" quotation is very old and was made when Asus launched the eeePC 701 model last year. Since then just about every major laptop manufacturer, including, Dell and Lenovo has jumped on the bandwagon. So much so, that Intel is having trouble meeting demand for its Atom processors. There has been some speculation recently that Sony, far from shying from this market, is preparing its own netbook.

Abstract said:
Agreed. When I get a netbook, I'm going to buy one with a solid state drive. I'm definitely going to skip the regular harddrive.

The EeePC 1000 (not the 1000H) has a 40 GB SSD. Awesome. It's a good price for that size of SSD, since they're usually so expensive.
Click to expand...

There is a reason why it is so cheap. SSDs come is all shapes, sizes and, most importantly, speeds. Guess which one you're getting?
 
gkarris said:
Now you got me thinking that Apple may actually do something...

Maybe that's where iLife Mobile and iWork Mobile come in??? :eek:
Click to expand...

Hey, I can go for an ilife/iwork mobile...... that would solve 90% of my needs while I am out and do not wish to carry around my macbook. give me a small tablet with a couple of USB's and mini-dvi to have the option of a wired (or wireless) keyboard/mouse and external monitor and a way to sync with my macbook/mini.

we really need one of these:

apple_tablet.jpg


Of course the interesting this is, the more and more I search google images, the more variations I see of this photoshopped version.

I really think Apple needs to jump on this, and/or get into the netbook market. Just leave the macbook where it is. Maybe juice up the macbook more and eliminate the pro, as they are pretty close anyway.

Also, there are times when all I need is a smaller device in a protective case with a couple of pockets (like a portfolio), rather than carrying around:

Notebook_Bag.jpg


I can just see it now. The above device in my portfolio with my livescribe notebook and pen (for when I am not at a place condusive to a computer use or just quickly marking up ideas) - thus where the USB ports come in, to sync my pen back to this device.

ah, my computing options would be complete.
 
I have 2 Macs, but I'm really impressed with some of these netbooks. In fact, the only reason I've not bought an Asus Eee PC 1000 so far is that I'm hoping Apple might make an announcement about a Mac version in October - as unlikely as it seems. If not, the 10" matte screen on the Asus will be ideal for me &, FWIW, it'll be my 1st PC. - I know a number of Mac owners who in recent months have started considering the same option.
 
Just ordered an Acer Aspire One from CDW, should get to me this week. It's a Linux with the 6 cell battery.

Things I'm looking forward to:
- no moveable parts. I'll take the slow write to quick boot up, I do a lot of research and this is perfect.
- six hours of battery life. I think it's worthy every penny. All I ever need the net is to upload research to google docs. I'll also save to a thumb drive as back up.
- not having the distraction of my Mac while I do work. I know that may seem odd to some, but it's hard to do work with so many good programs on my Mac.
- not having to worry about lugging around expensive and much LOVED MBP around when all I need is a netbook.
- the ability to carry a laptop everywhere, and I mean everywhere. The thing is 2.19 pounds.

Things I'm hoping for in the near future:
- Looking for a 3G plan and usb card, for my Linux machine. Hoping I don't have to install XP.
- A bigger battery so I can go 10 hours. :D

PS - We have three other Mac's in the house and not really leaving the platform anytime soon. But if Apple can produce a $329 laptop that gets six hours on battery I'll show them my Credit Card. In the meantime I have my Acer.
 
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