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Sure, simple, for children! A real power user wants complicated hard-to-deal with stuff so we can show how superior we are to the unwashed masses. We rule the world! The rest of you can use your toy stuff from AAPL. (P.S. I own shares in AAPL).

The point of keeping it simple is to have it get out of the way and let you do what you need to do. Most people who own a computer don't own it as a hobby, they bought for a few specific tasks and don't care about what goes on under the hood. The end goal for these people is not to own a computer, but be able to get on the internet, balance your checkbook, etc.
 
The problem with 'Simple' or 'making it simple' is that the process of doing so, and the design/engineering that produces it, rarely is.

From a programming perspective, for 'simple' to not equal 'crude', takes a hell of a lot of programming, subtle calculation and wide integration. it's not enough to say that I want a simple UI, the program needs to be doing a lot of calculation in the background to ensure that the few options I do have are relevant and make use of everything else I've already done.

True simplicity in UI is very complex.
 
cool

I like seeing a creative perspective, even if it isn't an exhaustive one.

I totally agree on most of the opinions on simplicity here. Striving for simplicity for the people who use your products is great. But, the process to achieve simplicity for your users is extremely rare. What usually happens is that corporations develop more simplicity for themselves and their processes than for the customers and final products. I understand the dilemma of creating so much simplicity that products seem dumbed down, or, don't give the user the flexibility to change basic presets that are obviously possible. That has to be the constant balance...creating insanely simple products, while avoiding a closed environment which can accidentally remove a basic feeling that your customers have brains.

I think apple's products dignify the human experience 99% of the time. With the Android opinions all around, i can see their point where Apple's environment does appear more closed and proprietary at times. But, like I said, simplicity is easy to talk about, but you have to have thousands of people 110% vigilant for years and years to hope to achieve it.
 
The point of keeping it simple is to have it get out of the way and let you do what you need to do. Most people who own a computer don't own it as a hobby, they bought for a few specific tasks and don't care about what goes on under the hood. The end goal for these people is not to own a computer, but be able to get on the internet, balance your checkbook, etc.

It's possibly the key idea of simple. If you can't be useful get out of the way.

followed by-
If you can be useful do it with as little fuss as possible.
If you do need to make a fuss make sure your adding a lot of value.
The best way to add value is to teach something that will be generally useful.

Strangle enough as others had said iTunes fails this in some many ways. Well at least these days.
 
The problem with 'Simple' or 'making it simple' is that the process of doing so, and the design/engineering that produces it, rarely is.

From a programming perspective, for 'simple' to not equal 'crude', takes a hell of a lot of programming, subtle calculation and wide integration. it's not enough to say that I want a simple UI, the program needs to be doing a lot of calculation in the background to ensure that the few options I do have are relevant and make use of everything else I've already done.

True simplicity in UI is very complex.

Totally agree. This is why most CPU power goes towards user interface design. Just modeling a heuristic as one observes user activity to present the most relevant data to them is a very big task. Worst the the non-technical execs that sees something easy and pleasant to use who cannot for the life of them appreciate the easy flow of a good UI and only complains when it is not working or doesn't look good. While this is a Mac forum, it has been my experience that those who have a very long history of Apple product use make the worst technical managers.

If I see an engineer manager with a Mac and they are not doing anything connected to extending the Apple ecology, that is one huge red flag. I was at this one wireless company, saw a manager like that, he was ex-Apple, refused to talk about the terms of him leaving Cupertino and worst a Ph. D. without any research grant history.

All that considered I gave it a try. As I predicted he was a disaster. Went into the VP's off and told them to get rid of this guy or I would quit. I was not the only engineer expressing this position. A total cleaning house happened with this manager and all engineers connected to him fired in the same month. I don't think that place ever came back.
 
apple has cursed me. they've raised my bar in product expectations. there's no reason for everything out there to be simplified. not dumbed down, but simplified.

Ain't that the truth. My favorite example is when you travel and are in a hotel room somewhere. Where are the light switches? And the switches on the lamps? And power for your laptop? And so on. Even the bathroom fixtures are often hard to figure out. Stuff that wouldn't matter if you stayed in that room every day, you'd learn it of course. But for one night? The hotels never seem to learn.
 
I love the Jony Ive quote I have in my sig. I think about it every time I see some new fangled device like the galaxy note (or phablet as some call it) or padphone. I was reminded of it again yesterday when Tim Cook was asked about laptop and tablet convergence.

I'm so glad Apple doesn't just throw stuff out there to see what sticks. I'd rather have then not do something than do gimmicky things. And didn't Steve once say the hardest thing to do is say no?
 
A little irony moment for those who appreciate history. The Mac, as originally conceived by Jef Raskin, was radically simple. When Steve had Raskin removed from the project, all of that radical simplicity was replaced by what the Mac became: elegant, in its way, but not simple. So maybe simplicity isn't a stick so much as it's a sliding scale.
 
apple has cursed me. they've raised my bar in product expectations. there's no reason for everything out there to be simplified. not dumbed down, but simplified.

Totally agree. This applies to do many things - software, car dashboards, other electronics, etc. it's hard to understand how so many companies still manage to not get it, even as they see apple become the most valuable company in the world.
 
I guess since iTunes isn't an actual, physical product, Jobs couldn't hit it with the Simple Stick. Unfortunate, because it needs it.
LOL. iTunes has its own RDF protecting it. No known weapon including the simple stick has been known to successfully “whack” it.
 
There seem to be many books appearing about Steve Jobs. Walter Isaacson was the one who did it officially, and with Steve's blessing. The only other people I think worth listening to about him are his family and those closest to him at Apple, and they are keeping their thoughts to themselves, which is the right thing to do.

Woz hasn't kept his thoughts to himself. Just sayin'.
 
......... all of that radical simplicity was replaced by what the Mac became: elegant, in its way, but not simple. So maybe simplicity isn't a stick so much as it's a sliding scale.

I really like that word “Elegant.” “Simple” is too easy to confuse with “dumbed down” IMNSHO... idk maybe something like “easy to understand” is a better expression...
 
Ain't that the truth. My favorite example is when you travel and are in a hotel room somewhere. Where are the light switches? And the switches on the lamps? And power for your laptop? And so on. Even the bathroom fixtures are often hard to figure out. Stuff that wouldn't matter if you stayed in that room every day, you'd learn it of course. But for one night? The hotels never seem to learn.

Imagine a world in which all hotels, nay, all cities have identical layouts so people don't become confused.

Now think about how awful that sounds.
 
I really like that word “Elegant.” “Simple” is too easy to confuse with “dumbed down” IMNSHO... idk maybe something like “easy to understand” is a better expression...

Simple is often confused with "dumbed down." And unfortunately, that frame of mind is the only thing that's "dumbed down."

Simplicity is about making something actually usable. Apple has always been about making something dramatically simpler, but at the same time an order of magnitude more powerful. One of my favorite examples of this is CoreAnimation, or Grand Central Dispatch. Think about how powerful these two services are. But yet, their aim was at simplifying a development process. CoreAnimation for example, a highly sophisticated graphical application could be coded in 1/4 the lines of code, while at the same time being dramatically more powerful. The effort that gets saved in figuring out how to code, instead gets spent developing an app significantly more powerful and sophisticated.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, and unfortunately the majority of people can't seem to understand it. Those who do however, always seem to be the ones who make a difference like Apple.
 
What I would love is to have at some point Jony Ive/Apple creating a large coffee table book about Apple's design of their products, the story behind it, prototypes that never made it, etc.
That would be very cool for designers and people who appreciate it.
They already did...

Appledesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group
 
This should be an interesting book.

What I would love is to have at some point Jony Ive/Apple creating a large coffee table book about Apple's design of their products, the story behind it, prototypes that never made it, etc.
That would be very cool for designers and people who appreciate it.

It's not official and it's about their early stuff, but try this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1888001259/ref=redir_mdp_mobile
 
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