Install 1TB SATA HD (from iMac'13) in iMac G4 (PPC)

[s¡juandelarocha]

Hi!

After installing a SSD HD in my late 2013 iMac I've got the original 1TB Sata HD in a box waiting to be used anywhere. On the other hand I'm trying to give a second life to my father's iMac G4 from 2002 installing Tiger into it. And I was just wondering if I could take advantage of that 1TB HD and install it at my father's G4. I know that most probably I won't be able to use the whole space of it, but I'm sure by changing the oldy 40Gb original IDE HD he will notice a performance improvement -on top of space increasing...

Point is, what do I need to install it? I have read a PCI card that provides me a SATA port. But is it as easy as that? -Install the pci card and plug the sata HD? Or should I configure that PCI card?

On another level, how can I allocate the pci card inside the G4? It seems quite impossible to me considering the little space i saw when I opened it to change the internal battery...

Thanks!

 

[elf69]

I know from my work in the shop not all pci sata cards are bootable.

I do not know enough about osx to say what will or will not work personally.
But it will need to be bootable pci card.

I know there is in-line adaptors that convert ide to sata or vice-versa but will not get the speed boost using these.

 

[AphoticD]

You could try a PATA-SATA Adapter. They are cheap and I can confirm they work in the Power Mac G4 towers, so as long as there is enough space to accommodate the added length of the adapter to the hard drive, it should work.

See my post, installing SATA drives in a G4 Tower using these adapters;
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/my-powermac-g4-lucky-dip-twins.2070101/page-2#post-25218431

My understanding is the 2002 iMacs used the ATA/66 (ATA-5) standard, which may have a size limitation of 128GB if it is from June 2002 or earlier.

There is plenty of useful information and links on the subject here:
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...how-to-upgrade-hard-drive-use-big-drives.html

There are no PCI expansion slots inside the iMac.

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

Thanks! Well... my goal is to take advantage of a currently useless HD, but it is going to be a headache like the one I'm having to install Tiger, I should forget it. It's surprising to see that when searching for information, there's plenty of posts about people installing SSD but no Sata HD.

Let's hope someone can shed some light on the sata pci cards and its difference regarding "bootable" or not "bootable"
[doublepost=1508343878][/doublepost]

You could try a PATA-SATA Adapter. They are cheap and I can confirm they work in the Power Mac G4 towers, so as long as there is enough space to accommodate the added length of the adapter to the hard drive, it should work.

See my post, installing SATA drives in a G4 Tower using these adapters;
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/my-powermac-g4-lucky-dip-twins.2070101/page-2#post-25218431

My understanding is the 2002 iMacs used the ATA/66 (ATA-5) standard, which may have a size limitation of 128GB if it is from June 2002 or earlier.

There is plenty of useful information and links on the subject here:
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...how-to-upgrade-hard-drive-use-big-drives.html

There are no PCI expansion slots inside the iMac.

Thank you so much AphoticD. Do you think the SATA-PATA adaptor that you used (and bought in ebay) could fit into a imac g4? Is there any risk when looking for one of these adaptors? -meaning that I should take care of an specific aspect?
[doublepost=1508344310][/doublepost]Just found this adapter which seems to be compatible with Mac OS 8.6 and future editions.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/conversor-bidireccional-sata-ide

 

[eyoungren]

The main problem here is that all G3 and G4 Macs were IDE (PATA). It wasn't until the G5 that Apple switched to the SATA interface and SATA I at that.

No iMac that I know of is made like the PowerMac G4 (or Cube) where it would have PCI slots to support a SATA card. Hence the having to search for an adapter.

Unless this is a really old iMac you don't need to worry about the full support of the drive as large drive support was added in the early '00s. You just need to format the drive as APM and not GUID or it won't boot.

However, should this Mac for whatever reason not support large drives then Intech has a tool for you.

 

[AphoticD]

Thank you so much AphoticD. Do you think the SATA-PATA adaptor that you used (and bought in ebay) could fit into a imac g4? Is there any risk when looking for one of these adaptors? -meaning that I should take care of an specific aspect?
[doublepost=1508344310][/doublepost]Just found this adapter which seems to be compatible with Mac OS 8.6 and future editions.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/conversor-bidireccional-sata-ide

Is the 1TB HDD of the 2.5" or 3.5" variety? This adapter looks like it might be for the smaller form factor as the power appears to be provided over the 2.5" IDE connection.

The adapter would need to provide both power and SATA connections to a 3.5" 1TB drive, separately providing a full-size female 3.5" IDE connection and a female 4pin molex power socket.

 

[weckart]

Is the 1TB HDD of the 2.5" or 3.5" variety? This adapter looks like it might be for the smaller form factor as the power appears to be provided over the 2.5" IDE connection.

That is a laptop drive adapter and it would increase the length of the drive by an inch and a half to two inches. For something like an iMac G4, a laptop drive might not be a bad idea as it would cut down on noise as the hard drive is close to the ventilation holes. Where space is a premium, a 2 5" drive gives you some options.

For my Macs, I use this adapter for full sized drives

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/sata-to-ide-adapter-for-pvrdvrpc-n64hq

It adds about an inch to the end, which makes for a tight fit and will not fit everywhere.

From the same shop I have bought a few SATA PCI cards

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/serial-ata-raid-pci-card-a47bb

The actual card is smaller than depicted and has an SIL3512 chip with a large EEPROM, which means it is easily flashable under OSX using the Wiebetech firmware to make a bootable SATA controller.

 

[AphoticD]

The actual card is smaller than depicted and has an SIL3512 chip with a large EEPROM, which means it is easily flashable under OSX using the Wiebetech firmware to make a bootable SATA controller.

Do you have any more information regarding the OS X based WiebeSATA flashing? Is the 3124 also flashable or just the 3112 and 3512?

I've got this PCI-X card and looking to make it bootable in a Sawtooth:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...of-compatibility.1650568/page-2#post-25239944

 

[weckart]

Do you have any more information regarding the OS X based WiebeSATA flashing? Is the 3124 also flashable or just the 3112 and 3512?

I've got this PCI-X card and looking to make it bootable in a Sawtooth:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...of-compatibility.1650568/page-2#post-25239944

Yes. I just flashed it in my MDD using the stuff found in this thread

http://www.applefritter.com/content/sil3512-flashing

and the process is reversible, at least to the PC bios contained within the Wiebetech flasher if you haven't backed up your original card firmware.

Shows up as a 2 channel SATA card in SysProf after flashing. It doesn't even figure before as OF doesn't know what to do with it with a PC bios.

One caveat is that I haven't tested it out with the SATA disk in my MDD as I need a Molar to 15pin power adapter. I have the cables on order but I doubt that there will be any problems with this. It is also supposed to be hot swappable. Not sure I would want to play with that in a desktop.
[doublepost=1508429401][/doublepost]RE: the 3124, Wiebetech had two ROMs extracted: One for 3112 chipsets and one for 3512 chipsets. There is also the SeriTek firmware for 3112 chipsets. I don't know of any process for other chipsets. You will need to google further. MacOS9lives and Applefritter might be good places to start.

 

[AphoticD]

Yes. I just flashed it in my MDD using the stuff found in this thread

http://www.applefritter.com/content/sil3512-flashing

and the process is reversible, at least to the PC bios contained within the Wiebetech flasher if you haven't backed up your original card firmware.

Shows up as a 2 channel SATA card in SysProf after flashing. It doesn't even figure before as OF doesn't know what to do with it with a PC bios.

View attachment 726222

One caveat is that I haven't tested it out with the SATA disk in my MDD as I need a Molar to 15pin power adapter. I have the cables on order but I doubt that there will be any problems with this. It is also supposed to be hot swappable. Not sure I would want to play with that in a desktop.

That's great. Thanks for the details. Was your card originally a 3512 or was it a 3112 flashed to identify as a 3512?

I think I will look around on the 'bay for a cheap option instead of messing with my perfectly known to work (but not boot) Sil3124 PCI-X card, which cost me about $100 new all those years ago and pulls down decent near-SATA II speeds ~180 - 200MB on a soft RAID0 set in the G5.

At least there is an OSX flashing option for these models. I was trying all sorts of ideas for flashing my card. I even went back to a dusty old DOS emulator I had on the shelf called RealPC (1.1) by Insignia, circa 1997. I had a vague recollection that the software could talk directly with PCI devices. Unfortunately, after setting it up on the Sawtooth, I found this feature was limited to Voodoo PCI cards only and there was no obvious way to connect the emulated DOS environment to the SATA card. A MacsBug wizard could possibly make them speak, but that was as close as I could get.

 

[weckart]

That's great. Thanks for the details. Was your card originally a 3512 or was it a 3112 flashed to identify as a 3512?

I think I will look around on the 'bay for a cheap option instead of messing with my perfectly known to work (but not boot) .

It was a low profile SiI3512 equipped with an SST39VF040 EEPROM chip. If that had been LF instead of VF in the prom, I could have possibly flashed the SeriTek firmware onto it and had OS9 support instead of just OSX.

This is the card



If anyone else needs that Wiebetech firmware for the 3512, it can be downloaded from here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110107124934/http://www.wiebetech.com/download.php?id=119

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

Is the 1TB HDD of the 2.5" or 3.5" variety? This adapter looks like it might be for the smaller form factor as the power appears to be provided over the 2.5" IDE connection.

The adapter would need to provide both power and SATA connections to a 3.5" 1TB drive, separately providing a full-size female 3.5" IDE connection and a female 4pin molex power socket.

It is the original 1TB HD that came inside my iMac late 2013. I think is 3.5" because it's the 27" imac edition -I think the model with 21" screen uses 2.5" for space reasons.

Exactly this one:
https://www.amazon.es/Seagate-Barracuda-ST1000DM003-Disco-interno/dp/B005T3GRNW

So just to clarify -and sorry to insist, as far as I understand, getting a SATA-IDE (PATA) converter should be enough, right?

btw: I just checked my exact model in "everymac" website and found the storage specs of my g4:

Standard Storage: 40 GB HDD Std. Storage Speed: 5400 RPM
Storage Dimensions: 3.5" (25.4 mm) Storage Interface: Ultra ATA/66

Will it be a problem the fact of Ultra ATA/66? I have read that "Officially, this model does not support hard drives larger than 128 GB. However, third-parties have discovered that this system will natively support hard drives larger than 128 GB, when running Mac OS X 10.2 or higher. Ultra ATA/100 hard drives are backwards compatible with the Ultra ATA/66 standard."

But in theory the HD wont have anything on it when installed in the G4 -my idea is to install it and during the first boot up press alt and install Tiger on it.

 

[jbarley]

Just in case you're still looking for suggestions,
I've pretty much done what it is you are asking about, installed a SataII SSD into my iMac G4 using this adapter.
Other then the normal hassle of opening the base and then re-applying thermal paste when closing it, the actual SSD installation went pretty well.
Notice that I mentioned a SataII SSD, it's been my experience SataII has always worked for me on these older PCC systems while the more readily available SataIII SSD's can be hit or miss.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ssd-g4-question.2037357/#post-24401015