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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
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Los Angeles, CA
Calling all T2 experts: Aside from the obvious "changing Startup Security Utility settings to allow booting from external media" is there any special trick to be able to wipe a T2-based Mac's SSD completely clean and install Windows 10 as the sole operating system?

I've read a few things that suggest that it can only be done via the Boot Camp Assistant (due to both (a) things that Apple does on the macOS side to allow booting to Windows on a T2 chip and/or (b) changes that Apple makes to the Windows 10 boot media/ISO/.wim file to inject the T2 SSD driver into it) and therefore there must at least be some form of macOS installed on the SSD. Is this at all true? Can anyone verify/deny this?

Would love to know as, when the 2020 Intel 4-port 13" MacBook Pro I'm likely going to buy (no, I'm not waiting for Apple Silicon; I do have need for x86 still) gets left out of future releases of macOS because Apple will have (at that point) finally dropped Intel support, I hope to convert it to a Windows 10 machine.
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2002
2,836
1,875
Bristol, UK
I would advise against having Windows as the sole operating system as you will not be able to install any firmware updates that Apple might release.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
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Los Angeles, CA
I would advise against having Windows as the sole operating system as you will not be able to install any firmware updates that Apple might release.

I'm talking about doing this at the point where said T2 Mac has stopped receiving security updates (because its last supported macOS release is greater than two releases older than the current one), at which point, I'd presume firmware updates will have stopped being released for it. Otherwise, I'm totally with you on the importance of keeping the firmware up to date.
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2002
2,836
1,875
Bristol, UK
I'm talking about doing this at the point where said T2 Mac has stopped receiving security updates (because its last supported macOS release is greater than two releases older than the current one), at which point, I'd presume firmware updates will have stopped being released for it. Otherwise, I'm totally with you on the importance of keeping the firmware up to date.

My apologies, your post was clear and I missed that point.
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,189
488
Elkton, Maryland
Calling all T2 experts: Aside from the obvious "changing Startup Security Utility settings to allow booting from external media" is there any special trick to be able to wipe a T2-based Mac's SSD completely clean and install Windows 10 as the sole operating system?

I've read a few things that suggest that it can only be done via the Boot Camp Assistant (due to both (a) things that Apple does on the macOS side to allow booting to Windows on a T2 chip and/or (b) changes that Apple makes to the Windows 10 boot media/ISO/.wim file to inject the T2 SSD driver into it) and therefore there must at least be some form of macOS installed on the SSD. Is this at all true? Can anyone verify/deny this?

Would love to know as, when the 2020 Intel 4-port 13" MacBook Pro I'm likely going to buy (no, I'm not waiting for Apple Silicon; I do have need for x86 still) gets left out of future releases of macOS because Apple will have (at that point) finally dropped Intel support, I hope to convert it to a Windows 10 machine.

T2 has nothing to do with running Windows only. We have classrooms of iMacs that run Windows solely. Why? Apple was the only one offering an 8 GB video card in an all-in-one package. We image using MDT/WDS, but we have installed vanilla copies of Windows from a USB installer and wiped the drive in the process without issue.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
5,961
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Los Angeles, CA
T2 has nothing to do with running Windows only. We have classrooms of iMacs that run Windows solely. Why? Apple was the only one offering an 8 GB video card in an all-in-one package. We image using MDT/WDS, but we have installed vanilla copies of Windows from a USB installer and wiped the drive in the process without issue.

You're doing this with the T2 iMacs that came out this week? Or are you using iMac Pros?

I ask as, unless those are the iMacs you're working with, you're not working with iMacs with the T2.

I do agree that it shouldn't matter (at least, not from the standpoint of booting the install media [provided I enable the setting to boot from external media). I guess the only thing worrying me are the things specific to the T2 that pertain to Windows being the sole OS (rather than being massaged from a macOS install).

Then again, I'm posing this question from the sole standpoint of my future Intel-based 4-Port 13" MacBook Pro (as that will likely be the only Mac I own with a T2 chip) and at the point in the future where Apple releases its final security patch for the final OS compatible with that Mac. (And I may not even convert it to a Windows PC at that point; I may just retire it gracefully rather than running it into the ground.)
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
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Los Angeles, CA
I did a bit more research. Eerily enough, (a) I stumbled onto this while doing unrelated research on the (Intel) 2020 13" MacBook Pros (as, again, I'm likely buying a four-port model before too long), and (b) what I stumbled onto was more talking about Linux on a T2 Mac rather than Windows.

It looks like there is no trouble booting a third party operating system on a T2 Mac via an external media (so long as the right Startup Security Utility settings for booting external media [and Secure Boot settings, if Linux] are set). This much, isn't surprising nor new. However, getting a third party operating system to recognize the internal T2-governed storage is a whole different story.

Without a driver, the OS won't even see the drive, let alone be able to boot from it. The way Boot Camp on a T2 Mac handles this is by injecting a driver for the T2-governed storage into the partition that the Boot Camp Assistant plants the data from the Windows install ISO to be booted during the Windows installation. On 2015 to current non-T2 Macs, the Boot Camp Assistant will merely stage the drivers to be injected by the Microsoft DISM utility as part of the installation process. On a T2 Mac, it has to inject the drivers (along with the T2 Storage driver) while in macOS as booting to the Windows installer won't work because the Windows installer won't be able to recognize the drive its even running on!

It's sounding like there is a second injection made in the Windows install image (there are two Windows images on any given Windows install media; one to boot the installer, and one for the OS that gets installed). It sounds like both need this T2 Storage driver to be installed or else no working Windows.

On a Pre-T2, but still 2015 or newer Mac, it sounds like you can still just wipe the internal drive, boot from a Windows installation media, install Windows, then install the Boot Camp drivers if all you want is Windows as the sole OS of that Mac. (The only real difference between a 2015 or newer Pre-T2 Mac and a 2014 and earlier Intel Macs in this regard is that the 2015 and later Pre-T2 Macs have the ability to pre-stage the Windows install image in a temporary partition via the Boot Camp Assistant, thereby removing the requirement of using a separate install media; 2014 and earlier Macs require that either a disc be burnt or an external install drive be created with or without the Boot Camp Assistant.) However, with a T2 Mac, it sounds like one would need to do a lot of manual slipstreaming of the T2 Storage driver (at minimum) into the Windows installation media in order to install Windows without (a) having macOS also installed and (b) using the Boot Camp Assistant to do so.

Doesn't sound impossible at all, but it sounds like neither Apple nor Microsoft are going to do anything to make doing this easier, especially since using the Boot Camp Assistant is the preferred fashion. That's annoying considering that it is sometimes convenient to set a Mac to only have Windows installed (especially in the inevitable case where Apple has dropped support for that Mac for future macOS releases while current and forthcoming Windows 10 releases are still supported for the foreseeable future on that Mac).

Mind you, I'm not 100% sure of what I just wrote out being the case. That's just what the research seems to point to. If anyone knowledgable in both Boot Camp and the T2 (beyond what's in Apple's white paper) can confirm or deny or even provide greater detail on either my hypothesis and/or the situation here, that'd be stellar!

This link was a big help: https://twocanoes.com/boot-camp-changes-on-t2-macs/
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
5,961
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Los Angeles, CA
I did a bit more research. Eerily enough, (a) I stumbled onto this while doing unrelated research on the (Intel) 2020 13" MacBook Pros (as, again, I'm likely buying a four-port model before too long), and (b) what I stumbled onto was more talking about Linux on a T2 Mac rather than Windows.

It looks like there is no trouble booting a third party operating system on a T2 Mac via an external media (so long as the right Startup Security Utility settings for booting external media [and Secure Boot settings, if Linux] are set). This much, isn't surprising nor new. However, getting a third party operating system to recognize the internal T2-governed storage is a whole different story.

Without a driver, the OS won't even see the drive, let alone be able to boot from it. The way Boot Camp on a T2 Mac handles this is by injecting a driver for the T2-governed storage into the partition that the Boot Camp Assistant plants the data from the Windows install ISO to be booted during the Windows installation. On 2015 to current non-T2 Macs, the Boot Camp Assistant will merely stage the drivers to be injected by the Microsoft DISM utility as part of the installation process. On a T2 Mac, it has to inject the drivers (along with the T2 Storage driver) while in macOS as booting to the Windows installer won't work because the Windows installer won't be able to recognize the drive its even running on!

It's sounding like there is a second injection made in the Windows install image (there are two Windows images on any given Windows install media; one to boot the installer, and one for the OS that gets installed). It sounds like both need this T2 Storage driver to be installed or else no working Windows.

On a Pre-T2, but still 2015 or newer Mac, it sounds like you can still just wipe the internal drive, boot from a Windows installation media, install Windows, then install the Boot Camp drivers if all you want is Windows as the sole OS of that Mac. (The only real difference between a 2015 or newer Pre-T2 Mac and a 2014 and earlier Intel Macs in this regard is that the 2015 and later Pre-T2 Macs have the ability to pre-stage the Windows install image in a temporary partition via the Boot Camp Assistant, thereby removing the requirement of using a separate install media; 2014 and earlier Macs require that either a disc be burnt or an external install drive be created with or without the Boot Camp Assistant.) However, with a T2 Mac, it sounds like one would need to do a lot of manual slipstreaming of the T2 Storage driver (at minimum) into the Windows installation media in order to install Windows without (a) having macOS also installed and (b) using the Boot Camp Assistant to do so.

Doesn't sound impossible at all, but it sounds like neither Apple nor Microsoft are going to do anything to make doing this easier, especially since using the Boot Camp Assistant is the preferred fashion. That's annoying considering that it is sometimes convenient to set a Mac to only have Windows installed (especially in the inevitable case where Apple has dropped support for that Mac for future macOS releases while current and forthcoming Windows 10 releases are still supported for the foreseeable future on that Mac).

Mind you, I'm not 100% sure of what I just wrote out being the case. That's just what the research seems to point to. If anyone knowledgable in both Boot Camp and the T2 (beyond what's in Apple's white paper) can confirm or deny or even provide greater detail on either my hypothesis and/or the situation here, that'd be stellar!

This link was a big help: https://twocanoes.com/boot-camp-changes-on-t2-macs/


A thought just occurred to me as a workflow idea, assuming my hypotheses above are correct:

I/one could, in achieving the goal of making Windows 10 the sole OS on a T2 Mac, do the following workflow:

- Download Windows 10 ISO
- Run Boot Camp Assistant
- Boot to the hidden installer partition made by the Boot Camp Assistant
- Choose to wipe the Mac partition/container entirely when selecting which volume to install to
- Install to "Unallocated Space" thereby causing the installer to format the whole drive.

This would function as a crude "startosinstall --erasedisk" option but for Windows

The only holes I see in this are that:

- I believe that macOS knows to delete that hidden installation partition when it next boots (it probably can't/won't do that if it itself has been deleted)

- I probably can't remove the Mac partition completely (given that Apple probably creates both the Boot Camp partition and the hidden install partitions out of APFS containers), though maybe I'm wrong about this.

Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong here as it'd be most helpful!
 

PCMicrosystem

macrumors newbie
Sep 6, 2020
1
1
Calling all T2 experts: Aside from the obvious "changing Startup Security Utility settings to allow booting from external media" is there any special trick to be able to wipe a T2-based Mac's SSD completely clean and install Windows 10 as the sole operating system?

I've read a few things that suggest that it can only be done via the Boot Camp Assistant (due to both (a) things that Apple does on the macOS side to allow booting to Windows on a T2 chip and/or (b) changes that Apple makes to the Windows 10 boot media/ISO/.wim file to inject the T2 SSD driver into it) and therefore there must at least be some form of macOS installed on the SSD. Is this at all true? Can anyone verify/deny this?

Would love to know as, when the 2020 Intel 4-port 13" MacBook Pro I'm likely going to buy (no, I'm not waiting for Apple Silicon; I do have need for x86 still) gets left out of future releases of macOS because Apple will have (at that point) finally dropped Intel support, I hope to convert it to a Windows 10 machine.

Hi, I had the same idea, I wanted to install windows 10 as the only operating system on my macbook pro 15 inch 2019 after reading tons of articles finally I found what I think is the solution for what I wanted to do.

You'll need:
* A Windows 10 bootable USB stick
* Download the BootCamp Compatibility drivers on your mac (WindowsSupport folder)

After you download the bootcamp compatibility drivers on your mac, you will see a few files and folders the generated WindowsSupport folder, you will need to copy the folder $WinPEDriver$ and BootCamp folders to the root folder on your USB stick with the Windows 10 installer, you will see an AutoUnattend.xml, edit it with any text editor and change the lines:

* InstallToAvailablePartition from True to False
* WillShowUI from Never to Always

Save the changes and copy the file to the root folder on the Windows 10 USB stick...

Restart the macbook, pressing option key, select the orange UEFI boot stick and After that the windows 10 setup will be able to see the encrypted by the T2 chip Macbook SSD, there is another thing, we need to convert the disk to GPT but it is easy done opening a command line windows with shift+F10, diskpart, list disk, select disk 1 or 2 (select accordingly), clean, convert gpt, exit, exit

Let me know if you need any help I will be glad to help you out!
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
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Los Angeles, CA
Hi, I had the same idea, I wanted to install windows 10 as the only operating system on my macbook pro 15 inch 2019 after reading tons of articles finally I found what I think is the solution for what I wanted to do.

You'll need:
* A Windows 10 bootable USB stick
* Download the BootCamp Compatibility drivers on your mac (WindowsSupport folder)

After you download the bootcamp compatibility drivers on your mac, you will see a few files and folders the generated WindowsSupport folder, you will need to copy the folder $WinPEDriver$ and BootCamp folders to the root folder on your USB stick with the Windows 10 installer, you will see an AutoUnattend.xml, edit it with any text editor and change the lines:

* InstallToAvailablePartition from True to False
* WillShowUI from Never to Always

Save the changes and copy the file to the root folder on the Windows 10 USB stick...

Restart the macbook, pressing option key, select the orange UEFI boot stick and After that the windows 10 setup will be able to see the encrypted by the T2 chip Macbook SSD, there is another thing, we need to convert the disk to GPT but it is easy done opening a command line windows with shift+F10, diskpart, list disk, select disk 1 or 2 (select accordingly), clean, convert gpt, exit, exit

Let me know if you need any help I will be glad to help you out!

You've done this successfully before? IF so, that's awesome! Everything I read on this suggested that you'd need to actually edit the wim files using something like DISM to bake in the T2 storage driver into both the boot.wim and install.wim files and that Apple was editing these files on the Boot Camp Assistant on those T2 Macs, but it wasn't allowing it to be then put back on a thumb drive (it was storing that on a hidden partition; the EFI one, I think). But if your method works, that's far simpler!

Currently, I don't have a T2 Mac. I'm wanting to make sure I can do this for the inevitable time when the Intel MacBook Pro that I'm going to purchase shortly (I still need x86 for x86 OS virtualization) gets left out of macOS releases and I'm forced to switch it to Windows 10 to get a supported OS running.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,718
Good luck, but in all honesty you'll be better off with a dedicated machine as windows on a mac simply doesn't have the same amount of cooling and power saving capability. You computer will run hotter and shorter. Other issues include the proprietary equipment, i.e., T2 and how that may impact you and various driver issues as apple is slow in rolling updates. With Apple silicon coming, I'd say the slow trickle of updates will come to a complete halt.

I've always had various (mostly minor) issues running windows on my mac and now that I'm on a PC, the difference is quite astounding in all truthfulness.

Either way, I get that you have a mac and need windows, so good luck with the effort.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
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Los Angeles, CA
Good luck, but in all honesty you'll be better off with a dedicated machine as windows on a mac simply doesn't have the same amount of cooling and power saving capability. You computer will run hotter and shorter. Other issues include the proprietary equipment, i.e., T2 and how that may impact you and various driver issues as apple is slow in rolling updates. With Apple silicon coming, I'd say the slow trickle of updates will come to a complete halt.

I've always had various (mostly minor) issues running windows on my mac and now that I'm on a PC, the difference is quite astounding in all truthfulness.

Either way, I get that you have a mac and need windows, so good luck with the effort.


This is more to breathe life into a T2 Intel Mac for when the inevitable day comes when said T2 Intel Mac can still run current and supported Windows 10 releases, but not current and supported macOS releases. 2012 Macs and 2013 iMacs are already there. They'll have two more years of being able to get security updates for macOS Catalina before they become security risks, but after that, Windows 10 or a Linux distro will be the only option to keep using that hardware (which, after re-application of thermal paste, should still work). T2 Macs don't really have the Linux option (at least not easily).

So when Apple eventually leaves T2 Macs out in the cold in terms of being to run a version of macOS that is still getting security updates, getting Windows 10 to run will be the only option to have a supported OS running on that system. I agree that Apple is poor about keeping Boot Camp drivers up to date. Luckily, Microsoft hasn't really changed the OS such that earlier Windows 10 drivers don't work on newer releases. At least not on any large scale. Worst case scenario, there's the Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC releases for that.
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,189
488
Elkton, Maryland
You're doing this with the T2 iMacs that came out this week? Or are you using iMac Pros?

I ask as, unless those are the iMacs you're working with, you're not working with iMacs with the T2.

I do agree that it shouldn't matter (at least, not from the standpoint of booting the install media [provided I enable the setting to boot from external media). I guess the only thing worrying me are the things specific to the T2 that pertain to Windows being the sole OS (rather than being massaged from a macOS install).

Then again, I'm posing this question from the sole standpoint of my future Intel-based 4-Port 13" MacBook Pro (as that will likely be the only Mac I own with a T2 chip) and at the point in the future where Apple releases its final security patch for the final OS compatible with that Mac. (And I may not even convert it to a Windows PC at that point; I may just retire it gracefully rather than running it into the ground.)

Sorry about the delay in response, I have been extremely busy with work and this is the first time I have signed into MacRumors in quite a while. We are currently using 27" iMacs that I thought had the T2, but it never occurred to me that there would be any issues with it since we inject the Boot Camp driver package as part of our task sequence with MDT. You do have me intrigued and now I am half tempted to try installing Windows solely on my work 16" MBP as a test.
 

robotica

macrumors 65816
Jul 10, 2007
1,256
1,412
Edinburgh
I did exactly this on a 2018 Mac mini a couple of weeks ago. The information is out there but very hard to get it. The process is really easy.

I am just heading to bed but if anyone is interested I will make a step by sleep guide for you.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
5,961
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Los Angeles, CA
So, I came back across this thread (over two years later) having revisited this topic. My initial experiments were with a MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016), a Mac that doesn't have the T2, but DOES have (a) the T1 and (b) plenty of non-standard components (way more than any Mac from 2014 and earlier that you'd totally be able to get away with just using an unmodified Windows 10 Install USB drive and the latest version of that Mac's Boot Camp installer for Windows).

Effectively, the problem that you'll have on a newer Intel Mac that doesn't have the T2 [and again, my only experience so far has been with a MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, 2017) and a MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016)] is that you will need to bake in the right drivers for Windows. The SSD, keyboard, and trackpad will be obvious ones that won't be recognized by either the bootable installer's OS or the OS installation payload itself.

What I did for the MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016) was the following:

- Install the latest version of macOS on it (in this case, that Mac only goes up to macOS Monterey)

- Run the Boot Camp Assistant, but only to download the "WindowsSupport" software and pop that on a FAT32 or exFAT formatted USB drive

(Of note, I discovered the existence of Brigadier, a utility that will fetch the latest Boot Camp installer for a given Mac model identifier [e.g. MacPro6,1 or MacBookPro16,2] in either Windows or macOS; so you don't necessarily HAVE to get the Boot Camp software from the Boot Camp Assistant if you don't want to)

- Take a different USB drive and format that as FAT32

- Download and run the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool on another Windows PC (could be running any version of Windows, but with seven days left of support, you probably don't want to use Windows 8.1) and run it, targeting the second USB drive.

- Extract the install.esd and boot.wim files from the sources folder

- For install.esd, use the dism command to extract the one index containing the edition of Windows you're wanting to install (in most cases, this will be either "Windows 10 Home" or "Windows 10 Pro") into its own install.wim file

- Mount the install.wim file using dism to an empty folder

- Use dism to add drivers from the $WinPEDriver$ folder in the "WindowsSupport" folder you copied to the other USB drive; I used the "/Recurse" option so I'd get them all

- Since the WiFi driver is missing from that folder for that particular machine, you'd want to download and install 7zip and then extract the individual installer for the WiFi driver (assuming you want to be able to make your first user account in Windows be a Microsoft account that you already have rather than a local account) into a folder (where there will be the driver .inf file that you can add using dism)

- Commit the changes and unmount the image using dism

- Mount the boot.wim file using dism (optionally to that same empty folder; doesn't matter where you do it so long as the command is able to find the folder you specify, but that might be more convenient); There are two indexes, and you'll want to do this with both of them

- Once again, use dism to add drivers from the $WinPEDriver$ folder in the "WindowsSupport" folder you copied to the other USB drive; I used the "/Recurse" option so I'd get them all - You do not need to add the extracted Wi-Fi driver since boot.wim is solely the Windows installation environment

- Commit the changes and unmount the image using dism; repeat for the second index

- Copy the modified boot.wim file back to the sources folder on the drive you turned into a bootable Windows 10 install drive

- Before you are able to do the same with the modified install.wim file that you added drivers to, you will need to split the wim file into two smaller files (as, believe it or not, the install.wim file is actually much larger than the install.esd file that it came from and you're still dealing with FAT32 which has a file size limitation); dism's got your back there too - You will only need to split it into two files, install.swm and install2.swm

- On the bootable Windows drive, delete install.esd and replace it with your two newly minted install.swm and install2.swm files in the sources folder on the Windows 10 USB drive

- Done

And mind you, all of that is just so you can get into Windows and properly install the Boot Camp software package which will take you the rest of the way to a smoothly running Windows installation on your Mac.

One thing that is a sticking point for a T1 Mac (so, basically any 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro that has a Touch Bar) is that the Touch Bar and the camera and a few other devices on the Mac are run by the T1. It's nowhere near as much as what the T2 does, but it's still enough to factor in.

Where the T2 chip runs bridgeOS from its own storage (not positive that it has its own storage, but I'm like 85% sure), the T1 chip runs a different OS called "embeddedOS" from the hidden "EFI" partition.

You CAN take a drive made from the procedure I briefly outlined here and make a drive that will install on the MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016), if not other T1 Macs as well.

However, if you wipe every existing partition on the Mac, using the Windows installer (like you are able to do without consequence on a 2014 or earlier Intel Mac), you have the following issues once you're in Windows:

- The FaceTime HD camera won't be recognized by Windows at all

- The Touch Bar will be off and non-functional

- Until you update to the very latest version of Boot Camp, you'll keep getting periodic error messages about the Boot Camp Software not being installed properly that prompt you for a reboot (Spoiler Alert: it keeps happening after the reboot)

There are probably others, but those were the ones I found.

SO, when using the Windows installer, LEAVE THE EFI PARTITION ALONE! There will only be that partition (which is a small triple digit number of megabytes large) and the actual partition macOS was installed on. Just delete the partition macOS was on and target the Windows installation to go there. Windows will know how to interact with the EFI partition and, most importantly, all of the things that run from the T1 chip will work.

It's a little kludgier and it still requires that there was a working installation of macOS on there before the wipe, but you can still have a macOS-free installation of Windows on a newer Intel Mac that has a T1.

Now, I grant that this thread is primarily about the T2. Currently, I have a MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2019) that I got from work as a guinea pig. [It's funny to see how the original post aged as I ended up getting a MacBook Pro (13-inch, M1, 2020) and a MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019) instead of the MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports) model I had talked about.] I'm more or less using the same method to create the USB drive that I used on the MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016). So far, it's a little perilous as many of the Intel chipset drivers are unsigned for some reason and x64 versions of Windows require that drivers be digitally signed in order to install (you can override this when using dism, but that honestly makes me a little uneasy).

Other than the USB drive creation process itself, there are additional T2-specific hurdles. Specifically, with Startup Security Utility settings:

- You have to enable external boot drive support - this is probably obvious and a given and no big deal

- You will not be able to boot the USB Drive with either "Full Security" or "Minimum Security" Secure Boot setting options

The first of those is, again, no big deal. The second one has interesting implications:

For one, Apple's own documentation on Boot Camp with T2 Macs suggests that (when using the Boot Camp Assistant to create the Windows partition to be used alongside macOS) one should have the Secure Boot setting set to "Full Security" prior to the Boot Camp installation but also that it won't matter what that setting is set to thereafter. Presumably, you can't set an OS installed with a lesser security setting than "Full Security" to "Full Security" after the fact.

Couple this with the fact that any external Windows installation media (including vanilla drives made with the Media Creation tool that are not modified with dism) can only boot with "No Security" set for Secure Boot in the Startup Security Utility and what your left with is the following notion:

Windows installations made with the Boot Camp assistant running in macOS will have the benefit of Secure Boot and can run with any Secure Boot option set (so long as "Full Security" is on when the Boot Camp partition is made to begin with), but Windows installations made with no macOS presence whatsoever have to be done with the "No Security" option with the Windows installation likely never being able to use Secure Boot (since Apple's implementation of Secure Boot with the T2 is extra strict; way more strict than that of your average 2012-present era Windows 8.1-11 PC).

Given that having Secure Boot enabled is a requirement of Windows 11, this likely also means that, assuming Apple ever offers support for Windows 11 via Boot Camp on Intel Macs, it will be (a) limited to T2 Macs (since Apple offers no other Secure Boot implementation on non-T2 Intel Macs) and (b) impossible to install via a USB drive in such a way that you're left with a perfectly supported installation.

I've yet to go past making the modified USB drive for my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2019). Will update this thread on how that goes. I'm guessing it'll be fine and that my only real limitation is that I won't be able to use Secure Boot [making it effectively no different than the experience of Windows 10 on the MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016)]. I'll definitely look to see whether or not nuking the EFI partition matters and what other T2-isms I'll have to face in Windows.

I'll probably do a detailed guide for those doing what I did with a T1 Mac and/or for the detailed steps to slipstream the Boot Camp drivers onto a Windows 10 USB drive if anyone wants it. What I did is easily translatable into an MDT or SCCM workflow (just so long as the previously-made EFI partition is left intact on T1 Macs). Will update accordingly when I'm on the other side of doing this with a T2 as well as the differences that I notice with the Startup Security Utility settings and Windows with Secure Boot between a USB install and a Boot Camp Assistant driven install.

Sorry about the delay in response, I have been extremely busy with work and this is the first time I have signed into MacRumors in quite a while. We are currently using 27" iMacs that I thought had the T2, but it never occurred to me that there would be any issues with it since we inject the Boot Camp driver package as part of our task sequence with MDT. You do have me intrigued and now I am half tempted to try installing Windows solely on my work 16" MBP as a test.

My turn to apologize for an EVEN LONGER delay in response. Would still be curious as to whether or not the iMacs in question that you have are 2020 models or 2019 models. I'd imagine that you'd still need to inject the Boot Camp drivers into both the installation wim file as well as whatever boot wim file, but maybe 2019 iMacs behave more like 2014 and earlier Macs when it comes to custom hardware that you NEED drivers injected for. And yeah, definitely test your work 16" (assuming you're still at that place and still have that machine). Would be interested in the results!

I did exactly this on a 2018 Mac mini a couple of weeks ago. The information is out there but very hard to get it. The process is really easy.

I am just heading to bed but if anyone is interested I will make a step by sleep guide for you.
I'd be very interested in what you did to compare notes. I'd imagine there's less that the T2 has to do on a Mac mini than on a MacBook Pro, but I'd still be curious.

I came across this dude's guide. And he mostly did the same stuff I did. Though, he didn't use dism to make an installer drive with all the drivers baked in. But he did use Brigadier (which is how I found out about it), so that's cool. Would be curious to see how your findings differ, if at all. :)
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
5,961
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Los Angeles, CA
So, an update:

I made a bootable installer for the 2019 MacBook Air. I omitted the Intel chipset drivers. Incidentally, the Boot Camp installer also seemed to have problems with these, however, I had no other problems (and Windows Update was able to square me away in the drivers department so that I had nothing outstanding in Device Manager). For the hell of it, I tested using the Boot Camp Assistant after my experimentation with bootable media, and there were zero driver issues out of the gate. I'm guessing my Boot Camp drivers were messed up.

Incidentally, I've concluded the following:

- Yes, it's totally possible to have an Intel Mac with the T2 chip run Windows as its sole OS (provided Secure Boot settings are set to "No Security")

- To have a Windows installation with Secure Boot enabled, you MUST use the Boot Camp assistant as any bootable Windows media will not boot even if you have the Startup Security Utility set to "Allow External Boot Media"; this is how Apple designed the T2 to function (and, as stated earlier, this means that, barring any bridgeOS/T2 changes from Apple, if Windows 11 is ever supported by Boot Camp, it will be impossible to have a Windows 11 installation [that meets Microsoft's own requirements] without using the Boot Camp Assistant and on a T2 Mac that isn't the iMac Pro)

- Unlike with T1 Macs, if you are trying to have Windows be the sole OS on your T2 Mac, it doesn't matter if you delete the EFI volume or not as, unlike with embeddedOS, bridgeOS isn't installed on storage accessible to the rest of the Mac (and therefore isn't on a volume that you can [inadvertantly] trash with the Windows installer; keeping that partition and deleting it, yielded the same exact end result

- To go from Windows being the solely installed operating system on a T2 Mac (with "No Security" for Secure Boot) to having a standard setup with macOS, protected by "Full Security" for Secure Boot (basically reverting your Mac back to defaults), you need to effectively wipe your Mac twice: Once to put on a version of macOS that will put on an admin account that you can use to authenticate for Startup Security Utility. And once again to have an installation actually protected by those settings. It's a serious pain and Apple's insistence that a macOS admin account be present to change those settings is...well...nuts.

- Changing Startup Security Utility settings for Secure Boot never seemed to work when booted to the recovery volume on the Mac; It worked all the time via Internet Recovery. I don't know if this is unique to my 2019 MacBook Air, all 2019 MacBook Airs, all T2 MacBook Airs, or all T2 Macs period. I'm guessing it'd be all T2 Macs or none of them. Either way, seeing as I'm only loading that utility and not trying to completely wipe my Mac, this is yet another annoyance.

It's cool to know that I can get Windows 10 as the sole OS on a T2 Mac. But it's irritating that (a) Windows 11 likely won't be as successful in this fashion due to Microsoft's requirements, and (b) Apple's own Startup Security Utility settings are as fussy as they are.
 
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emulajavi

macrumors 6502
Dec 15, 2011
347
951
if Windows 11 is ever supported by Boot Camp, it will be impossible to have a Windows 11 installation [that meets Microsoft's own requirements] without using the Boot Camp Assistant and on a T2 Mac that isn't the iMac Pro)

Why do you say that only the T2 iMac Pro could have Windows 11? What makes it different from other T2 macs?
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
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Why do you say that only the T2 iMac Pro could have Windows 11? What makes it different from other T2 macs?
I said that the iMac Pro is the only T2 Mac that won't ever be supported for Windows 11. And that has zero to do with the fact that it's a T2 and everything to do with the fact that the iMac Pro's Xeons are not listed under Microsoft's supported Intel CPUs list for Windows 11 (whereas all of the other CPUs found in all of the other T2 Intel Macs are).
 
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emulajavi

macrumors 6502
Dec 15, 2011
347
951
Hmm thanks.

I hope Apple could work with Microsoft and enable the T2 to work as TPM on Windows or simply enable the TPM of the Intel processors.

There is currently an issue with a recent windows security update (KB5012170) for Windows 10 that can’t be installed on T2 Macs. The update is related to TPM or Secure Boot. People guesses point to the T2 chip having something to do with the update not being able to install.

Bootcamp Windows 10 22H2 KB5012170 Error:… - Apple Community


I hope that the fix could be Apple enabling the TPM on Intel processor so the update can install and that would even make it possible to upgrade to Windows 11 via Windows Update.
 
Last edited:

PEM_DK

macrumors newbie
Mar 7, 2024
3
0
I did a bit more research. Eerily enough, (a) I stumbled onto this while doing unrelated research on the (Intel) 2020 13" MacBook Pros (as, again, I'm likely buying a four-port model before too long), and (b) what I stumbled onto was more talking about Linux on a T2 Mac rather than Windows.

It looks like there is no trouble booting a third party operating system on a T2 Mac via an external media (so long as the right Startup Security Utility settings for booting external media [and Secure Boot settings, if Linux] are set). This much, isn't surprising nor new. However, getting a third party operating system to recognize the internal T2-governed storage is a whole different story.

Without a driver, the OS won't even see the drive, let alone be able to boot from it. The way Boot Camp on a T2 Mac handles this is by injecting a driver for the T2-governed storage into the partition that the Boot Camp Assistant plants the data from the Windows install ISO to be booted during the Windows installation. On 2015 to current non-T2 Macs, the Boot Camp Assistant will merely stage the drivers to be injected by the Microsoft DISM utility as part of the installation process. On a T2 Mac, it has to inject the drivers (along with the T2 Storage driver) while in macOS as booting to the Windows installer won't work because the Windows installer won't be able to recognize the drive its even running on!

It's sounding like there is a second injection made in the Windows install image (there are two Windows images on any given Windows install media; one to boot the installer, and one for the OS that gets installed). It sounds like both need this T2 Storage driver to be installed or else no working Windows.

On a Pre-T2, but still 2015 or newer Mac, it sounds like you can still just wipe the internal drive, boot from a Windows installation media, install Windows, then install the Boot Camp drivers if all you want is Windows as the sole OS of that Mac. (The only real difference between a 2015 or newer Pre-T2 Mac and a 2014 and earlier Intel Macs in this regard is that the 2015 and later Pre-T2 Macs have the ability to pre-stage the Windows install image in a temporary partition via the Boot Camp Assistant, thereby removing the requirement of using a separate install media; 2014 and earlier Macs require that either a disc be burnt or an external install drive be created with or without the Boot Camp Assistant.) However, with a T2 Mac, it sounds like one would need to do a lot of manual slipstreaming of the T2 Storage driver (at minimum) into the Windows installation media in order to install Windows without (a) having macOS also installed and (b) using the Boot Camp Assistant to do so.

Doesn't sound impossible at all, but it sounds like neither Apple nor Microsoft are going to do anything to make doing this easier, especially since using the Boot Camp Assistant is the preferred fashion. That's annoying considering that it is sometimes convenient to set a Mac to only have Windows installed (especially in the inevitable case where Apple has dropped support for that Mac for future macOS releases while current and forthcoming Windows 10 releases are still supported for the foreseeable future on that Mac).

Mind you, I'm not 100% sure of what I just wrote out being the case. That's just what the research seems to point to. If anyone knowledgable in both Boot Camp and the T2 (beyond what's in Apple's white paper) can confirm or deny or even provide greater detail on either my hypothesis and/or the situation here, that'd be stellar!

This link was a big help: https://twocanoes.com/boot-camp-changes-on-t2-macs/
Wow, sincerely thank you, for sharing all you knowledge on this!
Ive used way to many hours on getting win10 bootcamp to work on my MB pro Touch Bar 2017 (a1707)
Any still cant get bootcamp to communicate whit embeddedOS..
No camera, backlight keyboard, and most importantly TOUCH BAR!...
Did you get it to work on a T1 MacBook?
I really hope you can help me out here, im totalt lost.
Best regards
Peter
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
5,961
2,554
Los Angeles, CA
Wow, sincerely thank you, for sharing all you knowledge on this!
Ive used way to many hours on getting win10 bootcamp to work on my MB pro Touch Bar 2017 (a1707)
Any still cant get bootcamp to communicate whit embeddedOS..
No camera, backlight keyboard, and most importantly TOUCH BAR!...
Did you get it to work on a T1 MacBook?
I really hope you can help me out here, im totalt lost.
Best regards
Peter
You're in luck! I actually did this on a number of post-2014 Pre-T2 Macs, including some of the T1-based 15-inch MacBook Pros.

I will say as a preamble (or pre-ramble), USB-C MacBooks generally require you to slipstream a Windows installer with drivers. You can get away with not doing it on 2014-19 iMacs. I'm not sure why, for instance, a 2016 or 2017 2-port 13-inch MacBook Pro, which lacks a T1 or a T2 chip, and still has removable storage, requires this, while a 2014-19 iMac does not. Makes no sense to me. In any case, here's the workflow that I used for that particular process:

1. Load the newest version of macOS that your Mac can support (this is crucial as this will [a] get you the latest possible Windows 10 drivers and update your UEFI firmware, which cannot be done within Windows)

2. Launch the Boot Camp Assistant; don't actually run through it, but go to the menu in the menu bar and select the option to download the drivers. It will offer you the option of saving it to the root of your home folder (it doesn't really matter where you put them, but that always seemed like a goofy place to put it).

3. Save the drivers to a FAT32 or exFAT formatted external drive.

4. On a separate computer (be it an Intel Mac or an actual PC) running Windows 10 or Windows 11) Use the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool to create a USB drive (ideally, using a second USB drive) with Windows 10.

5. Go into the 'sources' folder of the resulting drive. Create copies of both boot.wim and install.esd.

6. Take the folder you got from step 2 and copy that WindowsSupport folder to a convenient location on the separate Windows computer.

7. You will want to extract from install.esd the edition of Windows you are installing (e.g. Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro; the edition depends entirely on the license key you happen to have) and create a separate install.wim file containing only the edition of Windows you plan to install.

8. Use the DISM command in an elevated command prompt to mount your resulting .wim file into an empty folder (that you will designate as your mount folder).

9. Use the DISM command to add every driver in that folder recursively (using the /recurse option) (NOTE: The Wi-Fi driver will not be immediately accessible; you will want to locate the actual installer for your Wi-Fi driver in the WindowsSupport folder created in step 2, extract the contents using 7-zip so that the resulting folder is still in your WindowsSupport folder [and that therefore your DISM command to inject the drivers will also catch that one; otherwise you will not have a working Wi-Fi driver once you come out of the other side of the Windows installation.)

10. Optionally: You can search for the latest cumulative update for the version of Windows that you are deploying (hopefully 22H2 if Pro, Home, or Enterprise; and your choice of either 1809 or 21H2 if Enterprise LTSC 2019 or Enterprise LTSC 2021 respectively) and slipstream that update in there if you don't want your first bouts with Windows Update to take forever.

11. Unmount your .wim file using the /Commit option to save your changes. This will take a while.

12. The resulting .wim file will be too large (since this is going to eventually go back onto the USB drive you will use to install Windows and since that is a FAT32 volume, you'll need to split the .wim into smaller pieces. Use DISM with the /Split-Wim option to create multiple install.swm files (install.swm, install2.swm, etc.); 3800 is a good size to use when specifying how large the split files have to be.

13. Copy the resulting .swm files back to the sources folder on your Windows install drive and then delete the install.esd file that is currently there.

14. Repeat steps 7-9 and 11 on both indexes of boot.wim; when completed, copy that file back to the sources file and replace the version of the file that is already there. This is a MUST on USB-C MacBooks as Apple uses extremely proprietary storage as well as keyboard and trackpad connections and the boot environment will not have the required drivers to use them (resulting in you needing an external keyboard and then not being able to even see the SSD to install Windows to thereafter).

15. Boot and install Windows using that drive; you should still run the setup program for the Boot Camp drivers that came with the folder that you got from step 2. Make sure you keep running Apple Software Update for Windows until it tells you that you have no further updates. Everything after that is Windows 10 as usual.


Now, for T1 Macs specifically (and, to my knowledge ONLY for T1 Macs), when you are wiping your drive, it is CRUCIAL to not delete or otherwise modify your EFI partition. EmbeddedOS, the T1's precursor to the T2's bridgeOS and the thing that governs the Touch Bar (and anything else that the T1 governs that Windows can take advantage of) on T1 Macs, actually lives in your EFI partition. On T2 Intel Macs, bridgeOS lives in the T2's own dedicated storage (which you have no access to anyway), so you can blow away the EFI partition when installing Windows on a T2 Mac with no real repercussion. And any Intel Mac sans T1 or T2 won't have anything critical requiring you to keep your macOS-created EFI partition intact. So, this is only a precaution that you need to do on a T1 Mac. I suspect this is where you ran into the problems you are currently having.

If you blow away your EFI partition when installing Windows on a T1 Mac, you will have to wipe the machine and reinstall macOS before re-attempting to wipe your macOS boot partition and perform your clean Windows installation.

Two other random tidbits that you might want to be aware of:

1. For all 15-inch MacBook Pros (at least ones with AMD graphics [maybe NVIDIA too; I'm not sure about those]), Apple's UEFI only presents the discrete GPU to Windows. So, have your power adapter handy when using Windows. The Intel integrated graphics isn't anywhere to be found. This is not the case for the sole generation of Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro.

2. For Macs that only have Intel Integrated graphics, you will get an error when slipstreaming the GPU driver into your .wim file. For some dumb reason, the Intel graphics driver that Apple has with that folder isn't signed (and it's a strict requirement for 64-bit versions of Windows that all drivers be digitally signed). Incidentally, you can live without this one and the Boot Camp drivers for Windows (or Windows Update) will eventually get you the right driver.
 

PEM_DK

macrumors newbie
Mar 7, 2024
3
0
You're in luck! I actually did this on a number of post-2014 Pre-T2 Macs, including some of the T1-based 15-inch MacBook Pros.

I will say as a preamble (or pre-ramble), USB-C MacBooks generally require you to slipstream a Windows installer with drivers. You can get away with not doing it on 2014-19 iMacs. I'm not sure why, for instance, a 2016 or 2017 2-port 13-inch MacBook Pro, which lacks a T1 or a T2 chip, and still has removable storage, requires this, while a 2014-19 iMac does not. Makes no sense to me. In any case, here's the workflow that I used for that particular process:

1. Load the newest version of macOS that your Mac can support (this is crucial as this will [a] get you the latest possible Windows 10 drivers and update your UEFI firmware, which cannot be done within Windows)

2. Launch the Boot Camp Assistant; don't actually run through it, but go to the menu in the menu bar and select the option to download the drivers. It will offer you the option of saving it to the root of your home folder (it doesn't really matter where you put them, but that always seemed like a goofy place to put it).

3. Save the drivers to a FAT32 or exFAT formatted external drive.

4. On a separate computer (be it an Intel Mac or an actual PC) running Windows 10 or Windows 11) Use the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool to create a USB drive (ideally, using a second USB drive) with Windows 10.

5. Go into the 'sources' folder of the resulting drive. Create copies of both boot.wim and install.esd.

6. Take the folder you got from step 2 and copy that WindowsSupport folder to a convenient location on the separate Windows computer.

7. You will want to extract from install.esd the edition of Windows you are installing (e.g. Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro; the edition depends entirely on the license key you happen to have) and create a separate install.wim file containing only the edition of Windows you plan to install.

8. Use the DISM command in an elevated command prompt to mount your resulting .wim file into an empty folder (that you will designate as your mount folder).

9. Use the DISM command to add every driver in that folder recursively (using the /recurse option) (NOTE: The Wi-Fi driver will not be immediately accessible; you will want to locate the actual installer for your Wi-Fi driver in the WindowsSupport folder created in step 2, extract the contents using 7-zip so that the resulting folder is still in your WindowsSupport folder [and that therefore your DISM command to inject the drivers will also catch that one; otherwise you will not have a working Wi-Fi driver once you come out of the other side of the Windows installation.)

10. Optionally: You can search for the latest cumulative update for the version of Windows that you are deploying (hopefully 22H2 if Pro, Home, or Enterprise; and your choice of either 1809 or 21H2 if Enterprise LTSC 2019 or Enterprise LTSC 2021 respectively) and slipstream that update in there if you don't want your first bouts with Windows Update to take forever.

11. Unmount your .wim file using the /Commit option to save your changes. This will take a while.

12. The resulting .wim file will be too large (since this is going to eventually go back onto the USB drive you will use to install Windows and since that is a FAT32 volume, you'll need to split the .wim into smaller pieces. Use DISM with the /Split-Wim option to create multiple install.swm files (install.swm, install2.swm, etc.); 3800 is a good size to use when specifying how large the split files have to be.

13. Copy the resulting .swm files back to the sources folder on your Windows install drive and then delete the install.esd file that is currently there.

14. Repeat steps 7-9 and 11 on both indexes of boot.wim; when completed, copy that file back to the sources file and replace the version of the file that is already there. This is a MUST on USB-C MacBooks as Apple uses extremely proprietary storage as well as keyboard and trackpad connections and the boot environment will not have the required drivers to use them (resulting in you needing an external keyboard and then not being able to even see the SSD to install Windows to thereafter).

15. Boot and install Windows using that drive; you should still run the setup program for the Boot Camp drivers that came with the folder that you got from step 2. Make sure you keep running Apple Software Update for Windows until it tells you that you have no further updates. Everything after that is Windows 10 as usual.


Now, for T1 Macs specifically (and, to my knowledge ONLY for T1 Macs), when you are wiping your drive, it is CRUCIAL to not delete or otherwise modify your EFI partition. EmbeddedOS, the T1's precursor to the T2's bridgeOS and the thing that governs the Touch Bar (and anything else that the T1 governs that Windows can take advantage of) on T1 Macs, actually lives in your EFI partition. On T2 Intel Macs, bridgeOS lives in the T2's own dedicated storage (which you have no access to anyway), so you can blow away the EFI partition when installing Windows on a T2 Mac with no real repercussion. And any Intel Mac sans T1 or T2 won't have anything critical requiring you to keep your macOS-created EFI partition intact. So, this is only a precaution that you need to do on a T1 Mac. I suspect this is where you ran into the problems you are currently having.

If you blow away your EFI partition when installing Windows on a T1 Mac, you will have to wipe the machine and reinstall macOS before re-attempting to wipe your macOS boot partition and perform your clean Windows installation.

Two other random tidbits that you might want to be aware of:

1. For all 15-inch MacBook Pros (at least ones with AMD graphics [maybe NVIDIA too; I'm not sure about those]), Apple's UEFI only presents the discrete GPU to Windows. So, have your power adapter handy when using Windows. The Intel integrated graphics isn't anywhere to be found. This is not the case for the sole generation of Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro.

2. For Macs that only have Intel Integrated graphics, you will get an error when slipstreaming the GPU driver into your .wim file. For some dumb reason, the Intel graphics driver that Apple has with that folder isn't signed (and it's a strict requirement for 64-bit versions of Windows that all drivers be digitally signed). Incidentally, you can live without this one and the Boot Camp drivers for Windows (or Windows Update) will eventually get you the right driver.
Wow thank you so much!! I will try your method ASAP. Mine is the 15 inch model whit 4gb D-gpu.

Im currently aware off keeping, EFI partition intact, and has tried dual boot mac osx and windows via macos bootcamp Installer, and via boot media Creation vi Microsoft media Creation Tool. And also many different versions off windows and drivers. And solely windows. All whit out luck.

Thank you so much for now! I be back with an update soon!
 

PEM_DK

macrumors newbie
Mar 7, 2024
3
0
You're in luck! I actually did this on a number of post-2014 Pre-T2 Macs, including some of the T1-based 15-inch MacBook Pros.

I will say as a preamble (or pre-ramble), USB-C MacBooks generally require you to slipstream a Windows installer with drivers. You can get away with not doing it on 2014-19 iMacs. I'm not sure why, for instance, a 2016 or 2017 2-port 13-inch MacBook Pro, which lacks a T1 or a T2 chip, and still has removable storage, requires this, while a 2014-19 iMac does not. Makes no sense to me. In any case, here's the workflow that I used for that particular process:

1. Load the newest version of macOS that your Mac can support (this is crucial as this will [a] get you the latest possible Windows 10 drivers and update your UEFI firmware, which cannot be done within Windows)

2. Launch the Boot Camp Assistant; don't actually run through it, but go to the menu in the menu bar and select the option to download the drivers. It will offer you the option of saving it to the root of your home folder (it doesn't really matter where you put them, but that always seemed like a goofy place to put it).

3. Save the drivers to a FAT32 or exFAT formatted external drive.

4. On a separate computer (be it an Intel Mac or an actual PC) running Windows 10 or Windows 11) Use the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool to create a USB drive (ideally, using a second USB drive) with Windows 10.

5. Go into the 'sources' folder of the resulting drive. Create copies of both boot.wim and install.esd.

6. Take the folder you got from step 2 and copy that WindowsSupport folder to a convenient location on the separate Windows computer.

7. You will want to extract from install.esd the edition of Windows you are installing (e.g. Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro; the edition depends entirely on the license key you happen to have) and create a separate install.wim file containing only the edition of Windows you plan to install.

8. Use the DISM command in an elevated command prompt to mount your resulting .wim file into an empty folder (that you will designate as your mount folder).

9. Use the DISM command to add every driver in that folder recursively (using the /recurse option) (NOTE: The Wi-Fi driver will not be immediately accessible; you will want to locate the actual installer for your Wi-Fi driver in the WindowsSupport folder created in step 2, extract the contents using 7-zip so that the resulting folder is still in your WindowsSupport folder [and that therefore your DISM command to inject the drivers will also catch that one; otherwise you will not have a working Wi-Fi driver once you come out of the other side of the Windows installation.)

10. Optionally: You can search for the latest cumulative update for the version of Windows that you are deploying (hopefully 22H2 if Pro, Home, or Enterprise; and your choice of either 1809 or 21H2 if Enterprise LTSC 2019 or Enterprise LTSC 2021 respectively) and slipstream that update in there if you don't want your first bouts with Windows Update to take forever.

11. Unmount your .wim file using the /Commit option to save your changes. This will take a while.

12. The resulting .wim file will be too large (since this is going to eventually go back onto the USB drive you will use to install Windows and since that is a FAT32 volume, you'll need to split the .wim into smaller pieces. Use DISM with the /Split-Wim option to create multiple install.swm files (install.swm, install2.swm, etc.); 3800 is a good size to use when specifying how large the split files have to be.

13. Copy the resulting .swm files back to the sources folder on your Windows install drive and then delete the install.esd file that is currently there.

14. Repeat steps 7-9 and 11 on both indexes of boot.wim; when completed, copy that file back to the sources file and replace the version of the file that is already there. This is a MUST on USB-C MacBooks as Apple uses extremely proprietary storage as well as keyboard and trackpad connections and the boot environment will not have the required drivers to use them (resulting in you needing an external keyboard and then not being able to even see the SSD to install Windows to thereafter).

15. Boot and install Windows using that drive; you should still run the setup program for the Boot Camp drivers that came with the folder that you got from step 2. Make sure you keep running Apple Software Update for Windows until it tells you that you have no further updates. Everything after that is Windows 10 as usual.


Now, for T1 Macs specifically (and, to my knowledge ONLY for T1 Macs), when you are wiping your drive, it is CRUCIAL to not delete or otherwise modify your EFI partition. EmbeddedOS, the T1's precursor to the T2's bridgeOS and the thing that governs the Touch Bar (and anything else that the T1 governs that Windows can take advantage of) on T1 Macs, actually lives in your EFI partition. On T2 Intel Macs, bridgeOS lives in the T2's own dedicated storage (which you have no access to anyway), so you can blow away the EFI partition when installing Windows on a T2 Mac with no real repercussion. And any Intel Mac sans T1 or T2 won't have anything critical requiring you to keep your macOS-created EFI partition intact. So, this is only a precaution that you need to do on a T1 Mac. I suspect this is where you ran into the problems you are currently having.

If you blow away your EFI partition when installing Windows on a T1 Mac, you will have to wipe the machine and reinstall macOS before re-attempting to wipe your macOS boot partition and perform your clean Windows installation.

Two other random tidbits that you might want to be aware of:

1. For all 15-inch MacBook Pros (at least ones with AMD graphics [maybe NVIDIA too; I'm not sure about those]), Apple's UEFI only presents the discrete GPU to Windows. So, have your power adapter handy when using Windows. The Intel integrated graphics isn't anywhere to be found. This is not the case for the sole generation of Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro.

2. For Macs that only have Intel Integrated graphics, you will get an error when slipstreaming the GPU driver into your .wim file. For some dumb reason, the Intel graphics driver that Apple has with that folder isn't signed (and it's a strict requirement for 64-bit versions of Windows that all drivers be digitally signed). Incidentally, you can live without this one and the Boot Camp drivers for Windows (or Windows Update) will eventually get you the right driver.
Hello again! now tried your guide a couple off times, sadly no luck... even tried a couple dism tools, to do the job on diffrent versions off bot win 10 and 11, same resault as trough bootcamp installation, seems like the drivers get installed but not to hardware. The EFI partition is intact! do you still have and 2017 touch bar machine laying around and can check the drivers for me ? Driver listed below:

Dism /online /get-drivers /format:table > "%userprofile%\desktop\drivers.txt"


Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22621.2792

Image Version: 10.0.22631.3296

Obtaining list of 3rd party drivers from the driver store...

Driver packages listing:


-------------- | ---------------------------------------- | ----- | ----------------- | ---------------------------- | ---------- | ----------------
Published Name | Original File Name | Inbox | Class Name | Provider Name | Date | Version
-------------- | ---------------------------------------- | ----- | ----------------- | ---------------------------- | ---------- | ----------------
oem0.inf | u0395342.inf | No | Display | Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. | 28-07-2023 | 30.0.13045.18005
oem1.inf | amdfendr.inf | No | System | AMD | 28-10-2021 | 21.30.0.101
oem10.inf | uheserialbus.inf | No | System | Broadcom | 11-12-2015 | 12.0.1.870
oem11.inf | ialpss_gpio.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 13-06-2014 | 1.1.226.2
oem12.inf | ialpss_i2c.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 13-06-2014 | 1.1.226.2
oem13.inf | ialpss_spi.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 13-06-2014 | 1.1.226.2
oem14.inf | ialpss_uart2.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 08-01-2015 | 1.1.226.4
oem15.inf | ialpss2_gpio2_skl.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 14-01-2016 | 30.63.1603.5
oem16.inf | ialpss2_i2c_skl.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 14-01-2016 | 30.63.1603.5
oem17.inf | ialpss2_spi_skl.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 04-03-2016 | 30.62.1610.14
oem18.inf | ialpss2_uart2_skl.inf | No | System | Intel Corporation | 14-01-2016 | 30.63.1603.5
oem19.inf | prnms009.inf | No | Printer | Microsoft | 21-06-2006 | 10.0.22621.1
oem2.inf | amdafd.inf | No | System | AMD | 17-09-2021 | 21.30.0.1000
oem20.inf | keymagic64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 07-10-2016 | 6.1.6700.0
oem21.inf | applewirelessmouse.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 31-08-2015 | 6.0.6200.0
oem22.inf | bcmwl63.inf | No | Net | Broadcom | 21-11-2016 | 7.35.118.68
oem23.inf | b57nd60a.inf | No | Net | Broadcom | 12-09-2014 | 16.8.0.4
oem24.inf | bscsisda.inf | No | System | Broadcom Corporation | 10-01-2014 | 1.0.0.256
oem25.inf | b57ports.inf | No | Net | Broadcom | 15-10-2012 | 1.0.0.3
oem26.inf | btwserialbus-dev.inf | No | System | Broadcom | 21-02-2017 | 12.0.1.873
oem27.inf | applenull64.inf | No | System | Apple Inc. | 27-02-2017 | 6.1.6700.1
oem28.inf | cs420x_46.inf | No | MEDIA | Cirrus Logic, Inc. | 14-02-2014 | 6.6001.1.41
oem29.inf | cs4208_38.inf | No | MEDIA | Cirrus Logic, Inc. | 09-02-2017 | 6.6001.3.38
oem3.inf | applebtbc.inf | No | Bluetooth | Apple Inc. | 04-10-2016 | 6.1.6700.0
oem30.inf | appleodd64.inf | No | USB | Apple Inc. | 17-05-2010 | 3.1.0.0
oem31.inf | aaplmonf64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 23-01-2009 | 3.0.0.0
oem32.inf | applemtp64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 30-03-2015 | 5.1.5900.0
oem33.inf | appletpp64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 28-02-2017 | 6.1.6700.2
oem34.inf | applewtp64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 29-10-2011 | 5.0.0.0
oem35.inf | appleusbethernet.inf | No | Net | Apple Inc. | 01-02-2008 | 3.10.3.10
oem36.inf | e1e6232e.inf | No | Net | Intel | 26-03-2010 | 9.13.41.0
oem37.inf | e1k62x64.inf | No | Net | Intel | 12-04-2010 | 11.6.92.0
oem38.inf | e1q62x64.inf | No | Net | Intel | 04-12-2009 | 11.4.7.0
oem39.inf | e1r62x64.inf | No | Net | Intel | 07-01-2010 | 11.4.16.0
oem4.inf | applespidevice.inf | No | System | Apple Inc. | 26-05-2016 | 6.1.6500.0
oem40.inf | e1y62x64.inf | No | Net | Intel | 07-04-2010 | 10.1.9.0
oem41.inf | appledfr.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 25-10-2016 | 6.1.6500.0
oem42.inf | applesoc.inf | No | System | Apple Inc. | 04-11-2016 | 6.1.6500.0
oem43.inf | applecamera64.inf | No | Image | Apple Inc. | 30-09-2016 | 6.1.6500.0
oem44.inf | heci.inf | No | System | Intel | 12-06-2015 | 11.0.0.1146
oem45.inf | kabylakesystem.inf | No | System | INTEL | 03-10-2016 | 10.1.1.38
oem46.inf | skylakesystem.inf | No | System | INTEL | 03-10-2016 | 10.1.1.38
oem47.inf | sunrisepoint-hsystem.inf | No | System | INTEL | 03-10-2016 | 10.1.1.38
oem48.inf | appleusb.inf | No | USBDevice | Apple, Inc. | 14-06-2023 | 538.0.0.0
oem49.inf | bcmwl63.inf | No | Net | Broadcom | 20-04-2018 | 7.35.118.83
oem5.inf | applespikeyboard.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 19-10-2016 | 6.1.6700.0
oem50.inf | keymagic2.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 22-02-2021 | 6.1.8086.4
oem51.inf | applekeyboardinternalusb.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 09-03-2020 | 6.1.8000.1
oem52.inf | keymagic64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 22-02-2021 | 6.1.8086.1
oem53.inf | keymanager.inf | No | System | Apple Inc. | 22-02-2021 | 6.1.8086.1
oem54.inf | appletpp64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 08-01-2020 | 6.1.7800.2
oem55.inf | applespikeyboard.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 24-07-2019 | 6.1.7700.0
oem56.inf | applewirelessmouse.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 08-08-2019 | 6.1.7700.0
oem57.inf | applewirelesstrackpad.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 21-06-2018 | 6.1.7000.0
oem58.inf | appledfr.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 23-02-2021 | 6.1.8086.1
oem59.inf | atihdwt6.inf | No | MEDIA | Advanced Micro Devices | 13-07-2021 | 10.0.1.21
oem6.inf | applespitrackpad.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 19-10-2016 | 6.1.6700.0
oem60.inf | u0390451.inf | No | Display | Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. | 30-03-2023 | 31.0.12027.9001
oem61.inf | logitechble.inf | No | HIDClass | Logitech | 27-09-2019 | 1.10.86.0
oem62.inf | applenull64.inf | No | System | Apple Inc. | 19-10-2021 | 6.1.8100.0
oem63.inf | appledisplaynull64.inf | No | HIDClass | Apple Inc. | 14-01-2022 | 6.1.8100.3
oem64.inf | appleprodisplayxdrusbcompositedevice.inf | No | Usb | Apple Inc. | 22-08-2019 | 6.1.7600.0
oem65.inf | btwserialbus-dev.inf | No | System | Broadcom | 24-05-2018 | 12.0.1.874
oem66.inf | bcmwl63.inf | No | Net | Broadcom | 21-04-2020 | 7.77.119.0
oem67.inf | heci.inf | No | System | Intel | 27-07-2021 | 2131.1.4.0
oem68.inf | dal.inf | No | SoftwareComponent | Intel | 21-01-2021 | 1.41.2021.121
oem69.inf | iclsclient.inf | No | SoftwareComponent | Intel | 07-09-2021 | 1.63.1155.1
oem7.inf | applessd.inf | No | SCSIAdapter | Apple Inc. | 21-04-2016 | 6.0.6400.0
oem70.inf | mewmiprov.inf | No | SoftwareComponent | Intel | 22-07-2021 | 2130.1.15.0
oem8.inf | appleusbcompositedevice.inf | No | Usb | Apple Inc. | 18-05-2016 | 6.1.6500.0
oem9.inf | uhebthid.inf | No | HIDClass | Broadcom | 11-12-2015 | 12.0.1.870

The operation completed successfully.
 

Attachments

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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
Original poster
May 20, 2010
5,961
2,554
Los Angeles, CA
Hello again! now tried your guide a couple off times, sadly no luck... even tried a couple dism tools, to do the job on diffrent versions off bot win 10 and 11, same resault as trough bootcamp installation, seems like the drivers get installed but not to hardware. The EFI partition is intact! do you still have and 2017 touch bar machine laying around and can check the drivers for me ? Driver listed below:

Dism /online /get-drivers /format:table > "%userprofile%\desktop\drivers.txt"
First off, you don't want to use any other tools (in Windows) other than dism itself.

Second off, if you use dism with "/online" that targets the booted system and not an install image. You want to modify an install image. I didn't give verbose instructions, but if you google each of my steps, you ought to get it down. Feel free to PM me if you need more guidance.
 

winxmac

macrumors 65816
Sep 1, 2021
1,307
1,525
https://github.com/timsutton/brigadier

Download the Boot Camp drivers using brigadier then wipe the drive to install Windows and install the downloaded Boot Camp drivers...

I only have a 15" MacBook Pro 2015 so I don't think I am qualified for speaking how to deal with macs with hardware based security...
 
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