Intel Atom-Based Mac Mini Due in March?

[CyberBob859]

Intel Atom for Supercomputer?

Nice call, expect a Mini with about the same specs as the 2030 for $499...

Here's another article which states that SGI is using it to develop a low-power "supercomputer" application.

Intel developed the dual-core Atom for simple computing tasks such as browsing the web and checking email, but SGI maintains its generous memory bandwidth makes it suitable for the calculations SGI intends the new supercomputer to perform exclusively.

Sounds to me that this processor has more power than people think. Maybe Apple engineers know something that we don't?

And then to use it with Nvidia's GPU might make it an interesting low-power system.

 

[donstenk]

Enter Snow Leopard

People who have gotten OS X working on Atom-powered netbooks say it's really slow. That's not a scenario OS X was optimized for, since it's not authorized Apple hardware, but still, I'm not sure the Atom is powerful enough for OS X. It's certainly not powerful enough for Vista.

Who knows the heavily Intel optimized Snow Leopard will take care of that. The Mini is sort of a low end Mac after all. Hopefully it will work decently enough as a media centre.

 

[digitalbiker]

You must have missed the last time tablets were going to overtake notebooks. Never happened; the plain fact is that writing anything by hand is PAINFULLY slow compared to typing. It's relatively easy to get your typing speed up to 100+ wpm and do it all day long. You simply cannot write (legibly) that fast for any length of time.

Tablet computing ONLY good for when you have to use a computer standing up so you have just one hand to operate it. Notebooks outsell desktops at this point, there's no "last dying gasp" for notebooks any time on the horizon. If anything, desktops are on their way out.

Apple could not only break into the netbook market, they could CRUSH it. They could become THE dominate force for netbooks just like they did with PMPs and iPods. How?

First, they need to get in NOW. Most of the big players are only on their 1st or 2nd itteration of products, so there's lots of room in the market; just like the iPod (Creative had just a few devices out there when the iPod was released). Second, and I think more importantly, is OS X mobile. Netbooks right now are shoehorning a desktop OS onto a tiny device. What you need/want is an OS designed around a small screen. Finally, the App store. Integrate application distrobution and installation via iTunes and you have a winner in the netbook market. With current products you either need an optional, expensive relative to the $300 the computer cost, external drive to install software or you need to track down downloads and install that way. An app store for your netbook neatly solves this problem, especially if you can delete and redownload apps for free (helps if you have limited disk space, like a 16gb SSD).

Exactly!!

 

[donstenk]

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I expect that the iPhone is sold at a loss for $200..

Don't forget the contract ....

 

[DeepIn2U]

... it had a standard Core 2 CPU in a custom carrier. Same Merom 65nm silicon, just a more compact package.




...and it has been sold to other manufacturers.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/10/envy-133-using-custom-macbook-air-cpu-splashtop-instant-os/

Aiden,

Would it be possible for Apple to use the new AMD Athlon Neo or upcoming dual core Congo for the MacMini update ???

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/01/15/amd.dual.core.neo.soon/

Bring release info. I cannot find specific specs or tests of the Neo anywhere, just tidbits.

 

[DeepIn2U]

AMD inside a Mac?!

Is it possible?


Translated from notebookitalia ...

http://translate.google.com/transla...el-2009-4440.html&sl=it&tl=en&history_state0=

During the 2009 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, for the Sunnyvale chipmaker has issued the first of the mobile platforms for ultraportable systems planned for 2009, AMD Yukon: the microprocessors used by Yukon, based on a single core Huron, use a production process 65nm and have a maximum TDP of 15W. The first three solutions to impact on the market are already known: Neo Athlon MV-40, with clock frequency of at 1.6GHz, 512KB L2 cache and TDP of 15W, AMD Sempron 210U, with clock from 1.5GHz, 256KB of L2 cache and TDP of 15W, and low CPU AMD Sempron 200U from 1GHz, with 256KB of L2 cache and TDP of 8W. According to statements by the Senior Vice President of AMD Computing Solutions Group Randy Allen, the dual-core processors for AMD Congo, who have in the new core Conesus, will have a cost and a thermal profile "no more" than the current single-core solutions of Yukon. he platform Congo will be able to count on an AMD RS780M chipset with SB710 southbridge, and will have an ATI graphics core with support for Microsoft DirectX 10 API and ATI Avivo technology, presumably integrated mention that the current AMD Puma mobile platform, based on the same chipsets RS780M, mounts a graphics controller ATI Mobility Radeon HD3200. Quali saranno le conseguenze dell'impatto sul mercato di simili soluzioni, posizionate a cavallo tra il segmento degli ultraportatili e quello dei netbook? What are the consequences of the market for such solutions, positioned at the turn of the ultraportable segment and that of Netbook?

Secondo Allen l'arrivo di Congo metterà fine alla crescita esponenziale del fenomeno netbook, ormai ufficialmente ripudiato da AMD: "Penso che Congo bloccherà la crescita del settore netbook, poichè sempre più persone si renderanno conto che è meglio acquistare a 699 dollari un ultraportatile, piuttosto che predere un netbook con una spesa inferiore di qualche centinaio di dollari" . Intel e le tante aziende che come VIA Technologies ed ARM continuano ad investire grandi risorse per lo sviluppo di soluzioni a basso costo, sono naturalmente di diverso avviso. According to Allen's arrival will put an end to Congo exponential growth of the phenomenon Netbook now officially repudiated by AMD: "I think that Congo will block the growth of the Netbook, with more and more people will realize that it is better to buy a $ 699 ultraportable, rather than a Netbook predere at a cost of less than a few hundred dollars. "Intel and many companies like VIA Technologies and ARM will continue to invest large resources to develop solutions at low cost, are of course a different view. E voi, cosa ne pensate? And you, what do you think?

We know the underground community has gotten OS X working on desktop Athlons 64bit chips, but will Apple decide to use it on small desktop forms or even a possible MBAir should they decide to compete in the netbook race? I really don't think the netbook race is needed for Apple as the Air offers more performance.

 

[Wolfpup]

Second, and I think more importantly, is OS X mobile. Netbooks right now are shoehorning a desktop OS onto a tiny device. What you need/want is an OS designed around a small screen.

That's exactly what I DON'T want. We've had all these half assed mobile OSes for years, and frankly mobile OS X is a huge step BACKWARDS in a lot of ways from Palm OS or Windows Mobile.

What I, and I think most people want *IS* a full, real computer that's also tiny and portable. The general consensus for years has been that Microsoft and Intel are actually betting on that (why both are kind of ignoring the ARM stuff, and Intel spun their ARM division off).

We're maybe not quite there yet, but it's getting crazy close when you look at these netbooks, that Sony P, that upcoming Velocity Micro UMPC that's <$500, etc.

Atom's going to get more powerful and less power hungry over the next few years, while battery technologies may be about to explode...it's going to make it quite possible to have a real computer in roughly a mobile form factor (and that's if you don't count what we have now as already achieving that).

What I can see being useful is an alternate interface included with Vista or OS X that's designed for small tablet esque devices. But it needs to be optional, and ideally not even need programs to be recoded to support. Vista already has a ton of features like that built in, but I'm sure they can be improved (as Vistas were over XPs).

I think there's a huge opportunity for Apple to do amazing things in this space, but an ARM based thing running their fake-o mobile OS is exactly what I don't want. It's got to be x86, and it's got to be running real OS X (and ideally capable of running real Windows).

 

[Wolfpup]

I really don't think the netbook race is needed for Apple as the Air offers more performance.

The Air costs more than 7x what netbooks start at, and it's a lot bigger. To me, the Air, that HP, and that upcoming Dell are just ridiculous. If they were 1/4 the price...MAYBE. But at any rate, they don't really compete with 'netbooks'

 

[dongmin]

$400 Atom-based system that runs full OS X is a bad idea for Apple. Why? Simple: no one would buy iMacs any more. At $600 for the Mini, the iMac is a much better value. BUT at $400, the value proposition changes A LOT. Sure Apple would move a lot of these new Minis, but then their profit margins will take a major hammering. A $400 entry-level OS X machine is ONLY possible if Apple lowers the price across the board.

Same goes for this famed Apple netbook everyone keeps clamoring for. Apple will NEVER release a $600 netbook that runs full OS X b/c these things will eat up MacBook sales. Like you won't believe.

So the only way an Apple netbook will work is if Apple marries it with the iPhone OS. Basically, it'll be an iPhone with a bigger screen and maybe better battery life. It'll come with a keyboard for email warriors and maybe stripped-down "lite" versions of iWork and iLife. It won't run MS Office or Photoshop. For that, you'll have to buy a MacBook.

Apple will NEVER sacrifice profit margins for gaining market share. Apple has always ceded the low-end of the market. When Steve Jobs says Apple can't make a quality machine at the low-end of the market that they're happy about, what he's really saying is that they can't make a quality machine that they could make their usual 30-35% profit.

 

[digitalbiker]

should they decide to compete in the netbook race? I really don't think the netbook race is needed for Apple as the Air offers more performance.

The MBA doesn't compete with Netbooks. The price points are completely different as is the size and performance.

A Netbook is like the $350.00 Dell mini 9".

Apple needs a contender in this race as this is the future for consumer computing. Apple is in a position to clean up this market just as the ipod dominated the MP3 player market.

Apple's biggest issue with producing a killer Netbook is not the price point or the hardware design but instead it is the "Cloud Computing" aspect of the Netbook. Apple so far has not shown the ability to out design and simplify the networking aspect of their business. IE "The problems with .Mac & MobileMe".

iWork.com might be a step in the right direction but only time will tell.

If Apple released a 1.4 lb 9" Netbook under $500.00 which ran OSX Snow Leopard and had access to cloud applications & storage as well as application installation through itunes, Apple would clean up.

The $1799.00 MBA is not in the same market at all.

 

[digitalbiker]

$
Same goes for this famed Apple netbook everyone keeps clamoring for. Apple will NEVER release a $600 netbook that runs full OS X b/c these things will eat up MacBook sales. Like you won't believe.

If Apple doesn't get into this market then the macbook sales will die anyway. Why? Because most consumers don't need a $1400 macbook when they can surf the internet, check email, run general applications, etc on a $500.00 netbook.

Even Apple's unique design, marketing, and powerful OS can't convince the general consumer to buy a MB when it is priced $900 to $1000 higher than the competition.

Obviously this isn't happening yet. But it will once wi-fi becomes ubiquitous and web 2.0 / 3.0 applications become more accepted. Not many will need to full computing power on the go.

 

[DeepIn2U]

digitalbiker, good point. However I don't see any cloud computing aspect for ANY netbook currently being announced, nor marketed, unless I've missed something.

The netbooks will survive this year with the current economic times, but for real work & performance - other than just not taking and surfing the net - in my opinion they are cumbersome if not cheap in price. If Apple makes a nice MacMini for $400 base, and up to $550 high feature hardware (750GB HDD or 1TB ONLY if 1TB is the base for the iMac replacements) users will purchase it when the money is tight. iMac offers so much better value - but as the dollar purchasing power - not its trade rate - weakens its perceived as too expensive for a basic family computer.

I'm still hoping for a MacBook tablet for students - but that is another conversation.

 

[AidenShaw]

This doesn't look like a standard Core 2 CPU in a custom carrier...looks more like a custom Core 2 Duo to me.:

The "carrier" is the green thing. The CPU is the silver thing.

This picture shows the same silver thing on two different sized green things.

(Yes, the silver thing is really the cover over the CPU, but the point is the same.)

 

[newb16]

They also believe that the use of this platform will enable Apple to reduce the size of the already-diminutive Mac mini.

And don't forget about profit margin. Seriously, did you expect mac for the same price as crappy(r) buggy(tm) virus-laden(r) PCs? Pay half a grand for 'designed in california' shiny metal ... uhm.. case and welcome to the club.

 

[digitalbiker]

The netbooks will survive this year with the current economic times, but for real work & performance - other than just not taking and surfing the net - in my opinion they are cumbersome if not cheap in price. If Apple makes a nice MacMini for $400 base, and up to $550 high feature hardware (750GB HDD or 1TB ONLY if 1TB is the base for the iMac replacements) users will purchase it when the money is tight.
I'm still hoping for a MacBook tablet for students - but that is another conversation.

I am not saying that a Netbook is a good replacement for an imac or a macmini. It doesn't have the performance to replace desktop or even quality mobile computers for intensive computer applications.

However, does the majority of the consumer market need a powerful computer on a daily basis. How many people do you think would be happy with a handy little laptop with a quality screen & keyboard that could;
1) Get email
2) Access the internet
3) play video
4) play audio
5) Run general desktop applications word processor, spreadsheet, quicken, contacts, keychains, etc
6) Store local files
7) Access cloud computing Apps
8) Access stored cloud libraries of data and multimedia
9) Display E-books
10) Access itunes for apps, movies, songs
11) Run turn by turn GPS
12) Have integrated webcam for teleconferencing or taking quick snapshots.
13) Play touch ipod like games with built in accelerometer and touch screen.

Folded the laptop would be 9"x6" and weigh less than 1.5 lbs. for under $500.00.

This would be an on the go handy computer that has a long battery life and you could throw it in your car or use it at your local coffee hotspots.

 

[spatlese44]

Why did Apple buy PA Semi?

Don't they design chips for the same market as the Atom?

 

[miggitymac]

I am not saying that a Netbook is a good replacement for an imac or a macmini. It doesn't have the performance to replace desktop or even quality mobile computers for intensive computer applications.

However, does the majority of the consumer market need a powerful computer on a daily basis. How many people do you think would be happy with a handy little laptop with a quality screen & keyboard that could;
1) Get email
2) Access the internet
3) play video
4) play audio
5) Run general desktop applications word processor, spreadsheet, quicken, contacts, keychains, etc
6) Store local files
7) Access cloud computing Apps
8) Access stored cloud libraries of data and multimedia
9) Display E-books
10) Access itunes for apps, movies, songs
11) Run turn by turn GPS
12) Have integrated webcam for teleconferencing or taking quick snapshots.
13) Play touch ipod like games with built in accelerometer and touch screen.

Folded the laptop would be 9"x6" and weigh less than 1.5 lbs. for under $500.00.

This would be an on the go handy computer that has a long battery life and you could throw it in your car or use it at your local coffee hotspots.

Isn't this where they're going towards with the iPhone and Blackberrys? Who'd want a netbook to do all this when they could have all of that in a phone form that fits in your pocket? Not to mention, you could use it as a phone! <gasp!>

 

[VoR]

Isn't this where they're going towards with the iPhone and Blackberrys? Who'd want a netbook to do all this when they could have all of that in a phone form that fits in your pocket? Not to mention, you could use it as a phone! <gasp!>

Replace the accelerometer with a control pad and isn't this list what pdas were doing 6+ years ago?!
I'm still unsure why no one bought them and why people said the iphone was 'an innovation'.

 

[je_wallace]

Waiting??? Why bother!

You mean to tell me I've been waiting for 6 months to buy a computer I could have built for $200.00? Sad, sad, sad.

 

[digitalbiker]

Isn't this where they're going towards with the iPhone and Blackberrys? Who'd want a netbook to do all this when they could have all of that in a phone form that fits in your pocket? Not to mention, you could use it as a phone! <gasp!>

Bigger better screen, much better keyboard, full OS X not scaled down iphone version. Other than that very similar. The iphone has more limitations, Primarily screen real estate, keyboard, and dumbed down OS X.

 

[scottwaugh]

It's not for either. The point of the Apple TV is to play video.

YOU CAN'T PLAY 1080P VIDEO ON A FRICKING ATOM.

So anything that happens to the Apple TV will NOT be as sucktacular as an Atom.

Actually if you had an nVidia video processor (which is part of nVidia's default chipset design I believe) that you can use to render the 1080p video - it should do 1080p no problem.

This would make sense for MacTV as long as the audio can be handled as well.

God I hope this is for MacTV and not Mini - I've been waiting to get the next iteration of Mini and atom would deep six that plan.

 

[DoFoT9]

Just because it's an integrated GPU does not automatically mean that it's crap. True. standalone GPU are usually faster than contemporary integrated solutions, but it still does have to mean that the integrated solution is downright slow.

i think you need to fix up that last sentence, it kind of goes in my favour lol.
yes, ill admit the latest 9400M's are slowly increasing, they are a good 4x faster then anything intel could push out (which is a bad comparison but meh). im afraid it still isnt good enough for my purpose.

Ions 9400M is A LOT faster tham GMA950 is. I can easily see Ion outperforming curren Mac Mini in games and video-intensive tasks.

yes i dont doubt that, i read things too you know . the current MacMini is a joke, thus why i have been waiting for so long for a good revision!! but it still doesnt look like i will get it. BluRay playback the Atom may do, but ok gaming the 9400M will not do, at least not for me.

a pathetic 1.6ghz dual core Atom thing is not going to be good enough for me, im sorry.

And, combined with Snow Leopard, Ion-equipped Mini could be very fast indeed. Atom is fast enough for general purpose tasks, and tasks that require floating-point-crunching could be offloaded to the GPU.

ive never used an Atom on a mac (because it doesnt exist), but using vista on it was downright ugly. i expect leopard to be OK when using it, but anything intense and it would slowly slowly go down the drain in speed. if Snow Leopard is what they say then i may change my view, but until that day comes im sorry i cannot agree.

I'm not expert in the field, but it seems to me that the ion would be suitable for you. If it isn't, then C2D-equipped Mini wouldn't be either.

maybe so for cinema playback, but for gaming and video converting im afraid not.

You sure like to laugh a lot. Is that giddy insanity or the nitrous oxide taking effect?

nah, thats just me laughing at how pathetic the idea's of some people are (compared to mine of course).

I'm thinking the same thing. I have a 1.25Ghz G4 iMac It is my #2 Mac used really just for the web and email but I'll need to replace it eventually. When I do I'll look at "value". If Apple is offering a $700 Atom powered box I'll go with the Hackintosh.

But on the other hand, Apple could sell an Atom powered machine for $350 and still make their typical 35% markup.

Most people are only using these little computers for web browseing, email, forums like these and as media players (iTunes and DVDs) so the dual core Atom is all the CPU power they need, actually maybe more then needed

Even for light use of programs like Logic and Final Cut Express, you don'r need much. It's only when you start dealing with 20 tracks of audio or or a number of HD video streams that you need the big computer. Most home users would do fine with an Atom

That said. I won't pay $700 for an Atom based mini. No way. I can have a custom built quad core desktop machine for that price.

for me i will be using the MacMini as a MediaCentre, it will sit under my HD TV (thus why it needs to be tiny) for playing ripped BR movies, normal DVD's, recording TV shows etcetc. it will also be used for encoding movies whenever the time arises, reading the usual emails, checking MR (of course), and some very nice gaming.. the last point is probably the most important. bceause of the higher resolution of the TV most games just wont run on it... which is a real bummer!

 

[mackiwi]

the new macmini will be fine wuth atom ion at its core.

90% of computer users use a computer for following tasks:

- internet
- email/chat
- photos
- music/ipod syncing
- office apps

the atom is fine for this market.

even imovie/garageband could be optimised for ion.

the other 10% of the market who run CS4 / gmaers etc would have to buy imac / macbbok pro etc

 

[Wolfpup]

Why did Apple buy PA Semi?

Don't they design chips for the same market as the Atom?

the new macmini will be fine wuth atom ion at its core.

90% of computer users use a computer for following tasks:

- internet
- email/chat
- photos
- music/ipod syncing
- office apps

the atom is fine for this market.

even imovie/garageband could be optimised for ion.

the other 10% of the market who run CS4 / gmaers etc would have to buy imac / macbbok pro etc

This logic does not now, nor has it ever flown. As always, by that logic you could also use a Pentium 2, or G3, or whatever.

And actually it's MUCH more than 10% that use their computer for games or other things that need power. So tired of that myth.

 

[miggitymac]

Bigger better screen, much better keyboard, full OS X not scaled down iphone version. Other than that very similar. The iphone has more limitations, Primarily screen real estate, keyboard, and dumbed down OS X.

Screen and keyboard..true.

Personally tho, I don't think I would ever need a netbook. If it's just email, quick net browsing or accessing a file in a cloud while I'm on the road, I'd rather have it on a phone than having to carry around anything bigger.

And if I actually want to work on something more complex than that (like photo/movie editing or reason), or if I wanted to type up a lengthy document, I'd either want to be on a laptop that has some juice or at home with a desktop so that I could get it done quickly and efficiently.

I don't see the value in paying $300-$500 on a netbook if the only thing that it can offer that an iPhone can't, was that I could watch TV shows and/or movies on a bigger screen.

For kids, teens, seniors and complete computer noobs, it's a great intro tool. But, it's not for me.