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Rise ....

Only-Apple-Can-Obi: You are the chosen one!
You are supposed to destroy the dark side, not join them.

Lord-x86: Rise, Rise. Lord Apple.

We all know how the prophecy is fullfilled later.....
 
The Poor Quality Explained

Microsoft might be forgiven for stealing intellectual property if they actually improved on the product's that they stole from their competitors. But instead, Microsoft has consistently churned out expensive, buggy, hard-to-use, memory-hogging software.

For the average computer user, it seems perfectly natural for their computer to crash once per day. But is this really normal? Windows 95 (and still with Windows 98), Microsoft's mainstream operating system, frequently reports cryptic error messages or hangs on its user. In contrast, many other operating systems rarely crash more than a few times in a year. This is the result of using an operating system originally designed in 1975 for a different computer and for a command line text interface, and applying patch after patch to it for the past 23 years. The number and complexity of problems that Windows 95 and Windows 98 users face daily can be accurately viewed by taking a quick browse through the Internet newsgroup, alt.os.windows95.crash.crash.crash. Although Microsoft would have you believe otherwise, even they know that Windows NT, Microsoft's industrial strength OS, is less stable than most flavors of its primary competitor, Unix.

Microsoft's buggy work doesn't end with its operating systems. From Office to FrontPage, Microsoft does not seem to be capable of producing a stable piece of software. ActiveX actually permits any web page you visit to shutdown your computer without your consent, or worse. There was once a time, right after the debut of Internet Explorer 3.0, when bug fixes were literally being released at the rate of several per day. IE 4.0, its latest incarnation, has caused Windows 95 computers everywhere to become significantly slower and much more crash-prone than before, and it's very hard to delete, as some unhappy customers have discovered.

According to John C. Dvorak, a columnist for PC Computing, he recently received a Visual Basic error while running Office 97. Was Office really created using Visual Basic? If so, that would explain its slow, unstable performance. Due to "features" that most users will never have a practical use for, Microsoft programs are so bloated that sluggish performance has become their trademark. And memory requirements are outrageous. Office takes up over 150 megabytes of hard disk space, and requires 32 megs of RAM to run with somewhat bearable performance. ClarisWorks, one of its competitors, can fit on three megabytes of hard disk space and run swiftly on a computer with eight megs of RAM, while being capable of accomplishing the majority of tasks that Office is used for and still being easier to use. Furthermore, Internet Explorer 4.0 takes up over 60 megabytes of hard disk space and requires a good 10 megs of RAM all to itself! Netscape Navigator, by contrast, takes up only 15 megabytes of your drive and uses merely four megs of RAM.

All that bloat, and their programs still produce mountains of headaches while not being nearly as productive as the competition. I've had my own experiences. The user interface of Microsoft software is so counter-intuitive that it took me two days just to help someone transfer his Outlook 97 files from one computer to another! Windows 95, despite its claims of being Mac-like, is still "dirty" (though not so "quick") at its heart.

What's worse, Microsoft charges several hundred dollars to upgrade most of its products. But these upgrades are mandatory. Try opening an Excel 97 file with Excel 95 and you'll see what I mean. And what merits the spending of this fortune? A few bug fixes (with many more new bugs) and some more features you'll never use.

Windows 98 simply "integrates" Internet Explorer with the operating system so that instead of having to spend time double-clicking on an icon to browse the Internet, you can instead spend time waiting for your computer all the time while the web browser slows it down because it's always running. Finally, Microsoft has added another "innovation": the interface of the Internet being incorporated into Windows. What Microsoft doesn't realize is that the interface of web pages is a huge step back from the standard desktop metaphor, and only exists because it's easy to program for and saves bandwith. Arrogantly, Microsoft is charging $95 to upgrade, when all that Windows 98 is is simply a bug fix that spent three years in the making. You can expect many more bugs, too.

Despite Microsoft's lousy products, technical support costs $95 "per incident," and usually Microsoft will end up claiming that either you have done something wrong or that it's the hardware's fault. Good luck.

I've got to give Microsoft credit for its advertising, however. Bill Gates knows that most people don't buy good products. They buy good marketing.
 
Abercrombieboy said:
BUT if Longhorn will run all the software we have on the racks over at the school and people can load XP software on it and it runs well...it will be sucessful.

Of course Longhorn will be "successful". It's the new operating system for over 90% of computer users around the globe, and a complete rip-off of the best OS in the world. :D
 
This upsets and exites me at the same time.
Upsets, because it will take some time to rewrite apps/software.
Exites, because this will surely crush down M$. :D

P.S. For me there's no better news than hearing that M$ is going down. :)
 
Wow.....reading that NY Times piece makes it look like IBM really screwed around with Apple.
 
areyouwishing said:
Um, no. My computer that is almost 4 years old is not even close to history. My well administered p3 1ghz still out paces a lot of poorly built p4 machines. In GUI speed, and in real world office speed. Once in RAM Photoshop CS still opens in 7 seconds, while my Dual 1.25ghz at work still takes 10 seconds. I would hardly call that history.
Let me rephrase that... If you bought an entry model say, 4 years ago, it's getting hard to move around with it if you use processor-hungry applications or games (we're talking about both platforms here). I was a little radical on my first comment, but you have to admit that this is a normal process and has always been the case with computers...

If Abercrombieboy is worried about Apple not supporting their old computers, he should know that the majority of G3 computers were still supported with the release of Mac OS X Jaguar (that's got to be like 8 years lifespan). I think we might get emulation similar to the switch between 68K and PPC...
 
Abercrombieboy said:
If Windows is SO BAD then why do they have 95%+ marketshare? Why have they gained in the education market by double digits? You are going to try and tell me that Apple going x86 and making everything that businesses and schools own right now, hardware and software, nothing but "surplus garbage" is going to help Apple. School boards will say...Oh hell no...and stay with PC's and Windows because when you are using the tax payers money you have to decide on what will last the school the longest.

Isn't there anyone a little upset that after tomorrow we will all be on a "dying platform" with no future of software support? I know I put enough money into this iMac 3 months ago that it upsets me a little. I would recommend NOT ONE person buy a new PowerPC Mac after tomorrows announcement or they will be very sorry in a year or two.

Marketshare is not an indicator of a good product. It never has been, especially when it comes to computer products. If it were...apple would have 120% market share and even Gates knows it.
 
Abercrombieboy said:
I would recommend NOT ONE person buy a new PowerPC Mac after tomorrows announcement or they will be very sorry in a year or two.


Yeah! You might end up with some kind of nice looking computer that will still run lots of applications really well in a couple years or some lame crap like that! Screw you Apple!
 
So if it's true these are the possible scenarios as I see them:

1) Intel make PPC/compatible chips. Great, presumably Apple switched for more speed, it's a good thing.

2) Intel make x86 chips for Apple. Not so great IMHO, but certainly not the end of Apple - my choice is still buy new Mac with OS X + re-jigged software or buy new PC with Windows + new software. I'd still want the Mac.

3) Intel makes an entirely new chip for Apple (not x86 or PPC). Probably the riskiest and least likely of the three scenarios, but could be the most rewarding if it was backward compatible with PPC stuff (on the chip) but offering performance in excess of either PPC or x86 by a good margin.

It's all very interesting.
 
Abercrombieboy said:
If Windows is SO BAD then why do they have 95%+ marketshare?

You're digging yourself into a hole, my friend. I think the faster you're trying to respond to people the stranger these comments get.

You've already conceded that this switch to Intel, if true, won't be the end of Apple.

Now, like Darth Vader, you've become what you swore to destroy. You're a Windoze fan-boy.

1oyvey.gif
 
Forwards & Backward Compatibility?

If Apple really is going to take up to two years to complete the switch, I suspect that they will make it possible to run x86 OS X apps on the PPC OS X. This would prevent a freezing of their hardware sales and allow developers to produce for whatever platform they want on their own schedule.
 
Laurent said:
If Abercrombieboy is worried about Apple not supporting their old computers, he should know that the majority of G3 computers were still supported with the release of Mac OS X Jaguar. I think we might get emulation similar to the switch between 68K and PPC...

Actually, it's possible to get way BETTER emulation than with the switch between 68K and PPC. Any current PPC app can be run without recompilation on x86 at almost native speed with a chip from Transitive
 
flameshadow said:
Only-Apple-Can-Obi: You are the chosen one!
You are supposed to destroy the dark side, not join them.

Lord-x86: Rise, Rise. Lord Apple.

We all know how the prophecy is fullfilled later.....

I don't like that analogy. Lord Vad...er...Apple is killed later on :mad: :confused:
 
I guess I don't really care anymore at this point, because me caring about this will not change the outcome, I feel defeated...

I however am upset about one thing...If I would have used the money to buy a new PC instead of my iMac (and nothing against the iMac, I do really like it) I would have been able to run anything coming down the Windows pipeline in the next 2 or 3 years. Now since I have a PPC Mac I will be soon limited to only running the older software titles unless I want to pay money to get a new computer.

I would imagine very shortly you will see Apple software like iLife, etc, not say...G3, G4 or G5 processor in its hardware requirements, but Intel Pentium only.
 
MacSA said:
Wow.....reading that NY Times piece makes it look like IBM really screwed around with Apple.
The article seems to say that there wasn't enough incentive for IBM to give Apple a good deal on the next contract. Apple just wasn't a big enough piece of their business model. Apple had another choice, so they walked. Implied in there is that Intel had incentive to woo Apple with a much better deal.

Looks like the word "Wintel", often used with distain by Mac enthusiasts, won't have the same sour connotations. Have we begun saying Mintel yet? Mactel? Macintel?
 
First of all, I have 2 windows laptops running XP and they are extremely reliable.

Second, the is a 97% untapped market out there for Apple. If they have to piss off the 3% fanboys to dig into that market, it's worth the jump. The fanboys will grumble and come along anyway, I suspect.

OS X needs faster hardware. HD video is coming, and FCP needs massive rendering to cope with HD video.

It's also a great chance to get out of the minors and mix it up mano a mano with Longhorn in the big leagues. A 10% market share in computers would be a LOT of sales...

Guess no more reality distortion field jokes about the mgh myth from Steve 0. :D
 
Abercrombieboy said:
I would imagine very shortly you will see Apple software like iLife, etc, not say...G3, G4 or G5 processor in its hardware requirements, but Intel Pentium only.

Let's at least wait until after Steve's keynote tomorrow before jumping to such conclusions. Fair enough? ;)
 
Abercrombieboy said:
I would imagine very shortly you will see Apple software like iLife, etc, not say...G3, G4 or G5 processor in its hardware requirements, but Intel Pentium only.

Funny cause all of the timetables call for the switch to Intel to not be complete across the line until 2007 or so, and you can bet that Apple is going to continue selling their software for PPC at the very least until then. I don't think 2 years counts as "very shortly".
 
I think that Apple might be pissed off that Microsoft and Nintendo are collecting all the glory of the Power PC, which they maintain and pushed so hard throught Motorola and I.B.M. Of course, their weren't the only guys requiring those chips, but they could have been the ones requiring precise results and a solid evolution...

I think this is somehow the end of Power PC and Apple.
 
Lancetx said:
Let's at least wait until after Steve's keynote tomorrow before jumping to such conclusions. Fair enough? ;)

Fair enough...

but this whole thing is not going to go down as rosey as everyone thinks on here...there are going to be a lot of issues along the way. I just hope more then just the "die-hards" like myself and others on here are going to stick around when the road gets a lot of big pot holes in it.
 
Abercrombieboy said:
I would recommend NOT ONE person buy a new PowerPC Mac after tomorrows announcement or they will be very sorry in a year or two.

I would recommend waiting for Steve to make an announcement before proclaiming rumors official. It doesn't matter what the source is - Think Secret, MacOSRumors, MacRumors, CNET, WSJ, BBC, AP - if Apple didn't say it, it's not true.
 
admanimal said:
I don't think 2 years counts as "very shortly".

All 2 year old Apple hardware runs Tiger and iLife just fine. I would think there would be a lot of upset people if 2 year old hardware could not run the latest OS and programs. That is just my opinion.
 
Transitive

Business Issue If you are a computer OEM, you may be considering or may already have decided to change the microprocessor at the heart of your platform. The availability of ISV and customer-written applications on these new platforms is an important business issue in these circumstances.

Before end-users can take advantage of the performance and functionality benefits of a new platform, some combination of ISV and customer-written applications must be available on the new platform. The market success of a new platform will likely correlate closely with the availability of a wide range of ISV applications and the ease with which customer-written applications can be ported. Without a critical mass of ISV and customer-written applications, end users may hesitate to buy the new platforms, and sales could lag significantly. In addition, the old platforms will invariably need to be supported for an extended period while customers get comfortable with the new platform, leading to significantly increased costs associated with maintaining two (or more) platforms.

Transitive's Solution With Transitive’s QuickTransit product, computer OEMs can switch microprocessors and retain support for all the ISV and customer-written applications that were available on the old platform. QuickTransit allows software applications written for one platform to be run on another without any source code or binary changes. The applications generally run faster on the new platform than on the old, and at roughly 80% of the speed that might be achieved if a native recompilation was completed for the new platform. Graphics and interactive performance are transparent to the user. Functionally, the applications run identically. Since there are no source or binary code changes, an ISV or end-user developer need only do final testing to assure proper operation on the new platform. QuickTransit is integrated with the operating system and shipped as a part of the computer platform*. Its operation is completely transparent to the end-user.

NOTE: ISV = Independent software vendor
 
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