Intel Chip Delays Suggest No New Mac Pro Until at Least Early 2012

[Umbongo]

Sorry but every other company is not waiting on intel.

Apple hasn't released an updated mac pro in 15 months. No other PC manufacturer has done this.

All an updated Mac Pro could have been was with slightly faster graphics cards (6000 AMD series), slightly faster processors (3.2x4, 3.2x6, 3.46x6 and 3.06x12 replacing 2.8x4, 3.2x4, 3.33x6 and 2.93x12) and thunderbolt.

The benefits would be a sales increase - but it is now assumed by most that sales of Mac Pros are very small. So I very much doubt it would be enough to pay for the development and manufacturing change to include thunderbolt and graphics driver development. That is assuming that they will still be separate entities rather than requiring a custom graphics card to include thunderbolt within Apple's design. The CPU upgrades might not cost any more, depending on Apple's deal with Intel, but such an upgrade also makes all current inventory old stock. Driving down the price. It is much better for Apple to only update at Intel ticks and tocks.

As for those advocating a move to non-Xeons or using the LGA 1155 CPUs that are already out, well no current Sandy Bridge processor and chipset is superior to what should be in the base Mac Pro model (3.6GHz 4-core with quad channel memory and 40 PCI-E lanes). So where would the up sell come from? It would mean they were either stupidly expensive or compete more with the iMac pricing. They aren't going to further divide it.

I think what a lot of people fail to realise is that Apple don't intend Mac Pros to be purchased by the average consumer, nor gamers who can get similar performance, nor hardware enthusiasts. They are for use in professional type work-flows and here purchasing considerations are different.

 

[Umbongo]

I wonder if the up-coming "Bulldozer" AMD Opetrons are an option for Apple.

No they are not. The AMD FX8150 is a 3.6GHz 8-core CPU and competes with an Intel 3.3GHz 4-core without hyper-threading (Core i7 2500). Looking at what is upcoming from Intel and AMD, it seems AMD will try to compete on price for the low and mid-range level - something Workstations, specifically Mac Pros, are not.

 

[Hellhammer]

No they are not. The AMD FX8150 is a 3.6GHz 8-core CPU and competes with an Intel 3.3GHz 4-core without hyper-threading (Core i7 2500). Looking at what is upcoming from Intel and AMD, it seems AMD will try to compete on price for the low and mid-range level - something Workstations, specifically Mac Pros, are not.

FX8150 isn't even an Opteron CPU. MorphingDragon most likely meant the upcoming 4200 (Valencia) and 6200 (Interlagos) series, and the latter provides up to 16 cores. Those do compete with Intel's Xeon E5, although E5 will probably win the competition, especially for Mac Pro-like usage (Bulldozer's single-threaded performance sucks and many non-server software don't have that good multithreading support).

 

[ppayne]

Feeling the frustration

I, too, am ready to buy, mainly to get a machine that can boot from SATA III. We pay so much money but have to wait a year longer for these technologies which are already mainstream. I would have liked to buy a Mac Pro for our Filemaker Server a few months ago but couldn't wait any longer, so I did pull the trigger on a nicely spec'ed PC tower to host our Filemaker, and couldn't be happier. Apple asks much of us, and to take this long when giving us the updates we want, to never budge on the price, to refuse to give us an in-between Mac Pro tower like a headless iMac...it takes it toll.

I for one will not be buying my staff Mac Pros as I've done in the past. Either iMacs or Mac Minis decked out with SSDs (which I will install myself, thank you very much). For myself, my main machine is the hub of my company so I'll be patient, but no more Mac Pros for anyone else in my company.

 

[MorphingDragon]

FX8150 isn't even an Opteron CPU. MorphingDragon most likely meant the upcoming 4200 (Valencia) and 6200 (Interlagos) series, and the latter provides up to 16 cores. Those do compete with Intel's Xeon E5, although E5 will probably win the competition, especially for Mac Pro-like usage (Bulldozer's single-threaded performance sucks and many non-server software don't have that good multithreading support).

I did mean the Interlagos, just couldn't remember the name.

 

[steveOooo]

Rough estimates on spec ? Particularly the standard quad model?

 

[Inconsequential]

Rough estimates on spec ? Particularly the standard quad model?

E5-1620.

See: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2011

And I'm happy to wait, let's me save up abit more for the mid spec 6 core powerhouse!

 

[heisetax]

It's always been that way

Ridiculous how bad they need to update their Pro's!!

How long am I supposed to wait for a decent lineup at apple prices before I just say ****** it and switch to PC.

Seems like they are ditching us Pro's and becoming an appliance company

You just notice that. The Mac Pro has always been the last model out. My first gen Mac Pro arrived here os Sep 5 years ago.

We were told & promised that the IBM G5 was slow to change. Then we were told that the move to Intel would mean much more frequent updates. Anyone that has actually watched the Mac Pro will know that the average update is in the 18 month range. So this new update that has been, they say, delayed is just to ensure that the Mac Pro doesn't get too many updates. Wasn't G5s coming out tweice a year, i.e. 2-3 times faster than the Mac Pros.

But our choice is to purchase a Windows box. Is that really a choice? At least if you believe that comuting should be fun/

 

[heisetax]

Intel is really only part of it

As others have already mentioned, it's not Apple's fault that the Xeons are not available yet. I understand people's frustrations, but the negative comments towards Apple are pretty unnecessary.

The cpu may be an Intel item but how about the rest of the computer? Whey do we have to wait 18+ months for video cards, hard drive size, price & even just a speed increase with the same cpu/

 

[Umbongo]

FX8150 isn't even an Opteron CPU. MorphingDragon most likely meant the upcoming 4200 (Valencia) and 6200 (Interlagos) series, and the latter provides up to 16 cores. Those do compete with Intel's Xeon E5, although E5 will probably win the competition, especially for Mac Pro-like usage (Bulldozer's single-threaded performance sucks and many non-server software don't have that good multithreading support).

It isn't an Opteron, but I was just using it as a guide for performance. As you say the Opterons aren't suited for workstations - low clock speeds and poor single threaded performance. Thus not a consideration for Apple.

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[/COLOR]

The cpu may be an Intel item but how about the rest of the computer? Whey do we have to wait 18+ months for video cards, hard drive size, price & even just a speed increase with the same cpu/

Because Apple make more money this way.

 

[farmboy]

Because they don't feel like paying 2009 prices in 2011.

Consider yourself lucky. Our whole company used to be on G5s, they all died after 3 years, half within 2. I do not miss the G5 lemon towers at all.

...and they are not expensive.
...but certainly a price drop would reflect reality.
...Certainly not for $2500. This machine is a joke: $2500 for a computer outdistanced by the iMac, MacBook Pro, and much of the windows el-cheapos out there.
...They just got their work done faster at half the price.

Speed is the critical issue--no argument--but purchase price is not. Generally speaking, if you're running a business with a bunch of Mac Pros, the cost of any computer is virtually irrelevant on an annualized basis. From a production standpoint how many jobs do you do that are less than $2500? Not many, so one job covers the cost. Get the machine/s configured the way you want them, not the cheapest.

Our G5s are running well and other than upgrading HD capacity, no issues.

 

[LillDrutten]

Bummer

I have a budget for a new camera and a macpro this year. Nikon D800 and a nice sandy bridge e was in the list. None will be bought since the manufactures have ****ed up. And the economic forecasts don't looking that good for next year but I hope that I can buy at least one of them in 2012. The D800 is prio. This really sucks!

 

[MacsRgr8]

haha on me. Yeah... Radeon HD 7000 series. Nevermind everything I said regarding AMD.

LOL... I alreay have an AMD Radeon 7000 in a Mac!
Okay.... AMD/ATi... ATi Radeon 7000.... PCI.... in a G3

 

[linuxcooldude]

Speed is the critical issue--no argument--but purchase price is not. Generally speaking, if you're running a business with a bunch of Mac Pros, the cost of any computer is virtually irrelevant on an annualized basis. From a production standpoint how many jobs do you do that are less than $2500? Not many, so one job covers the cost. Get the machine/s configured the way you want them, not the cheapest.

Our G5s are running well and other than upgrading HD capacity, no issues.

Good point. These are designed to be business class workstations.

Probably the most people complaining about the price are people who don't or won't use it to run a business.

Probably the primary reason they don't get updated as often as consumer machines.

Most of the business environments I've worked in have the same computers, with the same hardware for at least 3 or 4 years, if not longer. The only time they get looked at is for repair or updates.

Its not cost effective for a business to put the latest and greatest for computers in its company.

 

[TMay]

I have a budget for a new camera and a macpro this year. Nikon D800 and a nice sandy bridge e was in the list. None will be bought since the manufactures have ****ed up. And the economic forecasts don't looking that good for next year but I hope that I can buy at least one of them in 2012. The D800 is prio. This really sucks!

Pretty sure that that earthquake thing that happened in Japan had something to do with the D800 delay. Now, imagine Nikon's situation when most if not all of its DX camera production is under water.

The inconvenience for yourself in this situation must be extremely stressful.

 

[Exhale]

As for those advocating a move to non-Xeons or using the LGA 1155 CPUs that are already out, well no current Sandy Bridge processor and chipset is superior to what should be in the base Mac Pro model (3.6GHz 4-core with quad channel memory and 40 PCI-E lanes). So where would the up sell come from?

Not necessarily true.

E3 xeons have been out for a considerable time - and just like the regular SB chips, these Xeon's outperform the previous generation on a per-thread basis quite significantly. In fact, the E3-1290 is the fastest quad core processor that exists, including outperforming the i7 2600 and i7 2700 at stock; and even more so all of the current 1366 based Xeons.

It does lack the same PCI-E lane availability, and isn't capable of running in dual-CPU configurations, but its not something that always gets used to begin with in the cheaper machines. Certainly, the 1155 Xeons are not worthy as a replacement in all scenarios; but they would be superior for the majority of users that go with the cheaper Mac Pro. And the lower thermal profile makes it easier to cool & keep quiet. I would not be surprised if this is cheaper for Apple as well.

 

[thermodynamic]

Mac Pro on the back burner.

I doubt it.

To the best of my knowledge, the Xeon chips using Sandy Bridge aren't out yet. It's logical for Apple to wait.

 

[twoodcc]

hopefully a 16 core mac pro announced in Jan 2012

 

[CWallace]

Most of the business environments I've worked in have the same computers, with the same hardware for at least 3 or 4 years, if not longer. The only time they get looked at is for repair or updates.

Same. We moved from high-end desktops with single CPUs to dedicated workstations with Xeon processors for our engineering staff and we went from the standard three-year to an extra-cost four-year warranty for them because we don't expect to replace them nearly as often or "trickle them down" to lower-tier users.

As a general user, I'd also be annoyed at how long Apple takes between Mac Pro updates, even understanding and taking into consideration the slower pace of development of many of the components.

Hence why I buy the top-of-the-line iMac every 2 years.

 

[R3k]

Why do people get so upset when they hear a mac pro delay?

These machines use state of the art processors that are difficult to find in any other consumer products. Hence, these computers are extremely fast and do not require a refresh every six months.

What's the complaining? Is it not fast enough?

Apple's mainstream products focus on usability and aesthetics, which is why they get updated so often. The Mac Pro is a processing machine - nothing else. It provides superb processing power using chips that are neither mainstream nor updated very often.

Deal with it.

Perhaps because many of us are exited by the concept of owning a shiny next gen Mac Pro with a speed bump, new case design, thunderbolt, and any other secret sauce Apple be adding.

Whether or not the above hopes and rumors come through, most of all we fear buying a current gen Mac Pro, and having a more Rad Mac Pro drop a couple of months later.

 

[R3k]

Just build a screaming fast i7 box for $1200.

Just built one of these for a client.

Core i7 2600k Quad Core 3.4ghz, Intel Z68 board, 16gb Ram, Fractual Design Silent Case, an Awesome Seasonic PSU, 1 x 64gb Crucial SSD and 3 x 1tb Samsung HDD's.

The Video card isnt even needed, as its onboard.

After a copy of windows, DVD Drive, tax and shipping, came to $1313.87

My next personal machine is def a Mac Pro, and OSX is my OS of choice, but thought you guys might find the above specs cost interesting.

 

[paulsdenton]

Waiting's not a problem...

I don't mind waiting until 2012 but losing the Section 179 deduction for 2011 for the Mac Pro and Thunderbolt display is a bummer. Lord knows what the business climate for small design and web businesses will be like next year. We're running Design Pro CS5 on a macmini2,1 so almost anything is an improvement. Have the taxable income for it this year so may have to go the large iMac route. Or could just bite the bullet and buy an "old" mac Pro at the same price the new one will probably cost. But no Thunderbolt!!

Was hoping to set ourselves up for a long time with a nice new Mac Pro. It's not Apple's (or even Intel's) fault, just a bummer.

 

[RobertMartens]

Whineboys are worse than Fanboys...

Cliche worn terms are worse than real thoughts.

 

[MrNomNoms]

Can't you read? Apple (and every other company) is waiting on Intel.

Whineboys are worse than Fanboys...

I second that - I had a look at their latest quarterly result - as if Apple is going to say, "yeah, we don't need 1.6billion we obtain through desktop sales each quarter".

IMHO there needs to be an instant ban for anyone who post crap like what funknofresh did - personal insults may disrupt a thread but posts that are so stupid that consume a whole news response section cause a heck of a lot more damage and derail genuine discussions. What do I define as a genuine discussion? actually talking about the topic at hand such as why there are delays by Intel or what the new CPU will bring or any rumours of what else Apple might update with their Mac Pro refresh.

 

[sennekuyl]

Why are people here crying over delays to a workstation computer?

It's not like an iPhone you chuck out every year for the latest one.

These type of machines are made to last a LONG time. Where I work there are powermac G5 towers and are still in full use every day, making a lot of money. I expect they still have years of service left.

Also if you do want to whine, why not email intel, Apple, Dell, HP etc are all stuck waiting on intel.

Probably because they are in departments requiring they 'upgrade' or receive budget cuts but there is little suitable to upgrade products available.