Intel Chips Have Memory Access Design Flaw and Fix Could Lead to Performance Drop

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #426
    Apple still has a small market share (i.e. for mac). And more and more software is subscription based. Adobe and Microsoft would get on board, Apple’s own stuff would be fine, and most of the Indy developers would jump to ARM too (most stuff in the MAS, for sure). That would cover the vast majority of what most people use. Much of the rest would come over or would be replaced by new options.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    You can compile it yourself in Xcode. Here’s the source code:

    func am_i_affected {
    print(“yes”)
    }
     
  2. matjamca macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Location:
    St Helens, Merseyside, England
    #427
    If there is such a performance drop (30%) following a fix, do you think manufacturers will have to compensate customers as the product is no longer ‘as described’ and may ‘not be fit for purpose’?

    I have a mid-2012 15” Retina MacBook Pro.
     
  3. Edsel macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Location:
    Over There
    #428
    I still have my vintage 2004 liquid-cooled PowerPC. It's time to re-activate that old monster!
     
  4. PKoz macrumors member

    PKoz

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    #429
    That's quite the leap. Just because it isn't obvious to the masses that simply use these chips, doesn't mean it is a widely utilized design trap that is prone to catching designers. We have not heard of this happening to AMD, or the GPU designers or the ARM designers, etc. So far you merely have an unsubstantiated opinion based on nothing it seems.
     
  5. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #430
    It actually requires some extreme design laziness to speculatively execute instructions that will have results tossed due to memory isolation. This should have been caught, but probably the person who did the design worked on the same block for 10 years and no one else ever looked at it.
     
  6. SRLMJ23 macrumors 68000

    SRLMJ23

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    New York
    #431
    I was under the impression that EVERY Intel CPU made over the past 10 years was affected? At least according to the article on this site: "All modern computers with Intel chips from the last 10 years appear to be affected, including those running Windows, Linux, and macOS. "

    So are you saying that only some CPU's are affected or all?

    :apple:
     
  7. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #432
    I'm saying they all are
     
  8. itguy06 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    #433
    It's Intel's crappy chips.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    AMD has publicly stated their chips do not and have not contained this flaw.
     
  9. Kra-Kow macrumors newbie

    Kra-Kow

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    #434
  10. itguy06 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    #435
    You are missing one HUGE thing. That's assuming those softwares were not compromised when you downloaded them. There have been a few cases of malicious software getting into developers' official distributions.
     
  11. mwined macrumors member

    mwined

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    #436
    Or, see a bunch of stuff with: sysctl machdep
     
  12. SRLMJ23 macrumors 68000

    SRLMJ23

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    New York
    #437
    Ahh, okay. So what is the point of Intel releasing a tool for Windows (NOT macOS) to see if your chip is affected or not? Dumb. This is going to be one of the biggest class action lawsuits in U.S. history! Think of how many computers over the past 10 years with Intel CPU's are out there! Also, with Microsoft, you have to take in to account their Surface lineup since they all use Intel CPU's.

    Would be really awesome if we all got new CPU's, I know I am dreaming on that one but damn, I am not taking a 30% hit in performance!

    :apple:
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    Zero. Hmmm.

    :apple:
     
  13. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #438
    could be that there are (will shortly be) some fixed chips out there, or that you have an 11 year old chip and aren't sure how old it is.
     
  14. smoledman macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    #439
    How so?
     
  15. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #440
    Having to constantly flush the TLB can be a pretty massive performance hit for most types of workloads.
     
  16. SRLMJ23 macrumors 68000

    SRLMJ23

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    New York
    #441
    I have a 2015 MacBook Pro, with a Intel Broadwell chip in it. I will assume that it is affected!

    Intel better do something really cool to help us out. I am not buying a new MacBook Pro to get a new Intel CPU which could still be affected! Intel should send me an upgraded version on my chip, based on socket size, and make sure it is not vulnerable to any attacks! Wishful thinking. 5-30% decrease is just unacceptable!

    :apple:
     
  17. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #442
    No, I have not noticed any performance impact.
     
  18. sterlingindigo macrumors 6502

    sterlingindigo

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Location:
    East Lansing
    #443
    Thirty effin percent?! What in the actual...?!
    So the $3k 2017 MBP I bought a few months ago...30%?!?!
    Apple will give me $900 back right?
     
  19. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #444
    Are you on macOS 10.13.2? Have you noticed any performance impact? The flaw has already been addressed in 10.13.2.
     
  20. Patrice Brousseau macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2016
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada
    #445
    So far, after reading half of the replies, the first words of reason I read... thanks.

    [sarcasm mode on]

    - it's the end for Intel;
    - everyone sees 30 percent hit, without much benchmarks, proofs or even patches at least on the Windows side;
    - Apple will go ARM for sure...

    [sarcasm mode off]

    This site is named MacRumors for an obvious reason:rolleyes:

    Let's wait the official patches of Microsoft and Apple with real use benchmarks and then we'll see...
     
  21. DaveP macrumors 6502

    DaveP

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    #446
    Nonsense. It's much easier to have righteous indignation based on perceptions rather than reality. Immediate overreactions based on incomplete information are the best.
     
  22. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #447
    You don't need to freak out about this, because you will probably never notice the difference. That comment was made as a worst case scenario with regards to Linux under assumptions that do not match real world use. It was just a long stream of system calls. Does that sound normal to you? If not, calm down.

    Of course if the impact really was 30% on initial patch attempts, they would spend a lot more time working on ways to mitigate the problem.
     
  23. Glideslope macrumors 603

    Glideslope

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Location:
    A quiet place in NY.
    #448
    Local Bus. LOL, I’ve been having flashbacks all day from this. It was my last PC. ;)
     
  24. Kabeyun macrumors 68000

    Kabeyun

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Location:
    Eastern USA
    #449
    Validated. Knew it would be soon. Didn’t know it’d be that soon.
     
  25. PickUrPoison macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    #450
    Why would you look to Apple to compensate you for Intel’s screwup?
     

Share This Page