Intel Debuts Xeon 5600 Series Processors Appropriate for Mac Pro

[Rocket Rion]

but that is the iFad customer base

Har har! What a clever joke. You should be booked on Jay Leno, right along with Dane Cook and Jeff Dunham.

 

[HyperX13]

I need 12 cores to run iPhoto and surf pron.

 

[bluefox9er]

Steve Jobs thinks you should buy a 9inch ipod touch instead.

+1. Apple seem far more concerned competing with the nintendo ds and sony psp than to cater for people who need a modern spec notebook.

 

[pinzel51]

Pardon my ignorance but when they say these new processor will be used to renew apple pro line can we speculate that this will also be included in the uMBP ?

Also how long do you guys think before we start seeing some results in the store. I know this is highly speculative but do you guys think apple were already aware of these models and were already building their new architecture around them ?

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Bregalad]

Um, sometimes there isn't a real "need" or requirement to update -some folks just like having the latest/greatest. I bought my wife the 27inch i7 a few months back, not because she needed or even uses much cpu (email, excel, web, iPhoto -nothing cpu intensive at all). It is just nice to have the latest (especially when you see the PC lineups with better chips available).

Exactly. Apple, and every other computer hardware manufacturer, can thank vanity and the desire to have the latest and greatest for a lot of sales.

I'm guilty of it for sure. I use a 2006 model MBP at work and an early 2009 Mac mini at home. It's rare when I feel delayed by either machine, but I want something new. I want a bigger display and a CPU that will spend even more time waiting for me than the current one does.

However, buying a machine that runs on older chips feels like a rip-off unless it's significantly discounted and we all know Apple doesn't discount anything except refurbs.

Even though I use much less powerful Macs I can't help but notice that the current model Macs use generation old video and, in some cases, generation old CPUs. I don't run any 3D software, but I can't see spending money on a computer with less than a 1GB video card because that's what all the PC cards I see advertised come with. I know it's crazy, but it has stopped me from wasting money on a new Mac I don't need.

 

[mex4eric]

Off topic but related

Is there any software for an Apple workstation which would be
50% faster (or even 20% faster) with 12 cores instead of 8?

I'm not in the market for a Mac Pro, as not much gets my fans turning other than Handbrake and Skype, or doing both at once.

Are we going to see a low power 4-core MacBook Pro soon as Intel cranks out more 32 or 24 nm chips?

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Well he asked if something would be 50% or even 20% faster by adding 4 more cores (going from 8-12). I doubt anything would speed up that much except very particular applications.

Of course there are specific applications where more cores help. Rendering is one of those, lots of server specific tasks are others. More cores does not automatically equal better performance for all applications though. First, the applications you're using need to be solving problems that are parallelizable. Second, even when you have such a problem you still have to deal with the overhead of managing (communication) multiple cores operating on multiple sets of data. Eventually the communication overhead can outweigh the benefits of additional cores as diminishing returns kicks in.

Rendering in particular seems like there would need to have a lot of data sent to and from the processor(s). Adding more cores in this case without also increasing the memory throughput could actually decrease performance as the cores fight for control of the bus.

Technologies like grand central aim to make it easier for programmers to use more cores, but they still need a problem that is able to run in parallel to begin with.

Adding more cores can also help with running more than one application, although I would argue that we're getting close to the number of cores average people need to put most apps on their own core already. It would be interesting to see any user studies about the number of applications the typical user has open at any one time.

With OpenCL support maturing with Apple and its inclusion of OpenGL 3.x Apple [like AMD] has OpenCL support for multiple cores on the CPU and streams on the GPU for GPGPU making the marriage of OpenCL/OpenGL far more noticeable than current results.

The compositing improvements and wait states should be reduced making the entire Quartz experience smoother and more responsive.

Apple is working hard on optimizing OpenCL across the cores and streams units for their GPU support.

The OpenGL 3 level shader support will be a welcome site for the entire OS. Getting OS X to have 3.3/4.0 OpenGL ready will take a load off of game developers as well.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Is there anything new on Intel's 6 Series chipsets?

List of features for the Xeon family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_microprocessors#.22Gulftown.22_.2832_nm.29_3

 

[jragosta]

Pardon my ignorance but when they say these new processor will be used to renew apple pro line can we speculate that this will also be included in the uMBP ?

Also how long do you guys think before we start seeing some results in the store. I know this is highly speculative but do you guys think apple were already aware of these models and were already building their new architecture around them ?

Thanks for the clarification.

You can speculate that if you wish, but you'll be wrong. There's not way they're going to put a chip with that amount of heat generation into a portable.

Apple knows about Intel's chips long before you do. No doubt Apple has already completed the design of Pros using these chips. They're waiting for sufficient chip availability, production of new systems from China, or some marketing event. They are most certainly NOT still in the design stage.

Because they want you to get maximum value from your Mac Pro
purchase by extending its lifetime?

Apple has never supported CPU upgrades. Why should they start now?

Well he asked if something would be 50% or even 20% faster by adding 4 more cores (going from 8-12). I doubt anything would speed up that much except very particular applications.

And those are just the applications that are going to convince someone to buy a new computer. Someone using their computer to browse the web doesn't need 12 cores (unless they regularly visit Flash sites.). Someone doing heavy-duty rendering or scientific apps does - and those apps generally can use all the cores you can throw at them (with some minor exceptions).

...or make a mid-range tower like everyone else.

Not going to happen.

I feel personally if Apple refuses to make a mid range tower they should just kill the mini as well. iMac and Mac Pro only or else have a Mac Mini and a Mac Pro Mini.

What kind if crazy logic is that? The Mini is ideal for a lot of people. Why should Apple drop it just because they won't give YOU a mid-range machine?

(Hint: Apple HAS a mid-range computer - the iMac. It may not fit your needs, but it fits right between the Mini and the Pro).

Nope. I (and many others) have floated the idea of a Mac gaming machine for years - fast RAM, water cooled, RAID 0 disks and spankin' graphics. Bigger than a mini - smaller than a Pro, not using Intel Server chips (Xeon's) or ECC RAM, but using the fast, hot max-clocked versions of their consumer chips.

Seemed to me that there was a market there. Apple, however disagrees, and since they've been more successful than anyone could have imagined, I'm inclined to trust there judgement over mine.

There is undoubtedly a market, but it's not very big. A large portion of the people in that market build their own. Then there's the portion who buys white box systems built to their specs. Even if Apple could compete with Alienware (which is where they'd need to be), the volume isn't worth the effort.

Clearly you do not understand the mind of typical Apple customer. Any other monitor (but Apple) on your desk is a blasphemy. It does not matter if it is better and cheaper than Apple monitor.

That is, of course, total nonsense. I've used Macs for 26 years now and I don't believe I EVER purchased an Apple monitor (other than in iMacs, of course). In fact, I don't think I know anyone who uses Apple monitors except for our graphics art partner who need exceptional color calibration. What you don't seem to understand is that many Mac fans like the Macs because of the way they work and the ease of use. Since a third party monitor is very nearly as good as a Mac and has no performance or ease of use disadvantages, why not save a few hundred dollars?

It's really amazing how the trolls can't come up with a better argument than their silly claim that Mac fans will buy anything from Apple - in spite of the fact that the monitor example completely blows their argument out of the water.

 

[voyagerd]

I updated the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_(microarchitecture)#32_nm_processors

 

[Umbongo]

I updated the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_(microarchitecture)#32_nm_processors

Xeon 5600 processors are Westmere EP not Gulftown. Gulftown is Xeon 3600 and 32nm Core i7. Assuming that is what you edited in.

 

[weaksauce]

And if these go into a new Mac Pro

Just how much will it cost? The thought alone is making my credit card melt on it's own.

 

[MorphingDragon]

And it's beyond me to figure out to what the pronouns "that"
and "this" refer.

Please type a few more words so that we can understand what you
are thinking.

My brain thinks in lisp, nobody can understand me.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Pardon my ignorance but when they say these new processor will be used to renew apple pro line can we speculate that this will also be included in the uMBP ?

Also how long do you guys think before we start seeing some results in the store. I know this is highly speculative but do you guys think apple were already aware of these models and were already building their new architecture around them ?

Thanks for the clarification.

These chips are too hot and large to be put into the uMBP

Also, for clarification, it's rude to ask about a laptop on a desktop thread.

I'm not in the market for a Mac Pro, as not much gets my fans turning other than Handbrake and Skype, or doing both at once.

Are we going to see a low power 4-core MacBook Pro soon as Intel cranks out more 32 or 24 nm chips?

Don't know, check the MBP threads. I don't mean to be harsh or anything, we really don't know, but there are TONS of threads about it in the Mac Hardware section under laptops.

Just how much will it cost? The thought alone is making my credit card melt on it's own.

Seriously, I think it's going to be the most expensive workstation I've seen to date. Prices for the 8 core may just start at around $4999. Each chip is $1000, so I don't think it'll be cheap.

The four core may go up as well, with Apple continuing to be the d0uchebags of the tech world; needing to keep a nice gap between their iMac and Mac Pro. So now pros will have to spend $1999 on a non-upgradeable, NO PCI having iMac, or $2999 to enter the Apple tower market.

I am waiting to see what the refurb market holds, as rich boys and girls with stupid money dump their 09's for 10's

 

[KptIglo]

However, buying a machine that runs on older chips feels like a rip-off unless it's significantly discounted and we all know Apple doesn't discount anything except refurbs.

Even though I use much less powerful Macs I can't help but notice that the current model Macs use generation old video and, in some cases, generation old CPUs. I don't run any 3D software, but I can't see spending money on a computer with less than a 1GB video card because that's what all the PC cards I see advertised come with. I know it's crazy, but it has stopped me from wasting money on a new Mac I don't need.

AMEN!!!

 

[TMay]

Xeon 5600 processors are Westmere EP not Gulftown. Gulftown is Xeon 3600 and 32nm Core i7. Assuming that is what you edited in.

Core i9, Westmere EP and Gulftown all refer to the same parts. I'm guessing that Gulftown refers to the code name for the project, Westmere EP for the architecture and die shrink, and i9 will be the branding.

 

[Umbongo]

Core i9, Westmere EP and Gulftown all refer to the same parts. I'm guessing that Gulftown refers to the code name for the project, Westmere EP for the architecture and die shrink, and i9 will be the branding.

Brand: Xeon 5600
Codename: Westmere EP
Architecture: Westmere

Brand: Xeon 3600 and Core i7
Codename: Gulftown
Architecture: Westmere

 

[voyagerd]

Xeon 5600 processors are Westmere EP not Gulftown. Gulftown is Xeon 3600 and 32nm Core i7. Assuming that is what you edited in.

According to Intel, Westmere-EP includes the Xeon 3600. According to the Gulftown Wiki article, Westmere-EP and Gulftown are the same thing. Gainestown was also known as Nehalem-EP.

 

[crackbookpro]

This will be my new laptop...

Let them come, and give us some kickarse GPU!

 

[deconstruct60]

I updated the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_(microarchitecture)#32_nm_processors

Curious. There is almost nothing in the old W3520, W3540 , W3550 price range ( $284 - $562 ) that Apple used for last year's QUAD only models.
Looks like lowest priced on in the new bunch according to that chard is the E5620 ( $387). Lower clock rate ( 2.4 versus 2.66 ), but the QPI is transfer rate is faster, run substantially cooler ( 80W versus 130W), is dual capable, and bigger L3 cache.

If there was extra padding built in the intro model last year ( higher than average profit margin ) then perhaps they go back to normal margin and keep the intro price the same but use a CPU that could conceptually pair up later. (e.g, instead of taking a 36% profit margin just take a 32% one. Not going to kill the balance sheet. Use same 3G RAM, which is cheaper now and hard drive on entry model. )
(not that Apple would get into CPU upgrade/pairing market, but perception may work on the "but I could use this" crowd. ). Or Apple will use that as excuse to jack the initial buy in price up $100. We'll see. I think that would be a mistake. Lowest MacPro is a tad too high already and needs more volume.

Seems like a "bring in your MacPro and we'll double up your CPU packages for $600-1000" would be a decent service they could leverage money off of. Having folks come in for $100+ iPad batteries. Not too much different and easier to pop out and install (just swap daughter cards). But doesn't seem likely.

 

[Umbongo]

According to Intel, Westmere-EP includes the Xeon 3600. According to the Gulftown Wiki article, Westmere-EP and Gulftown are the same thing. Gainestown was also known as Nehalem-EP.

The Gulftown wiki article is confusing, it is unclear if the author is trying to convey Gulftown and Westmere EP are seperate or not. Intel's documentation shows they are seperate. Westmere EP is only used to refer to the Xeon 5600 and 5520 dual socket chipset as their EP term is the name for. It doesn't have another codename this time like they did with Gainestown. Intel actually rarely refer to the Xeon versions of the high end desktop processors at all.

 

[Umbongo]

Curious. There is almost nothing in the old W3520, W3540 , W3550 price range ( $284 - $562 ) that Apple used for last year's QUAD only models.
Looks like lowest priced on in the new bunch according to that chard is the E5620 ( $387). Lower clock rate ( 2.4 versus 2.66 ), but the QPI is transfer rate is faster, run substantially cooler ( 80W versus 130W), is dual capable, and bigger L3 cache.

The 3500 series is still current and hasn't been replaced. The W3530 @ 2.8GHz is $284 and the W3565 @ 3.2GHz is $562.

 

[rotorblade69]

I need 12 cores to run iPhoto and surf pron.

No you don't I surf porn all the time with a G5 iMac.




Wait I mean Run iPhoto.

 

[voyagerd]

The Gulftown wiki article is confusing, it is unclear if the author is trying to convey Gulftown and Westmere EP are seperate or not. Intel's documentation shows they are seperate. Westmere EP is only used to refer to the Xeon 5600 and 5520 dual socket chipset as their EP term is the name for. It doesn't have another codename this time like they did with Gainestown. Intel actually rarely refer to the Xeon versions of the high end desktop processors at all.

I went to Intel's page for the W3680 and it listed it as Westmere EP.

 

[Umbongo]

I went to Intel's page for the W3680 and it listed it as Westmere EP.

Link?

edit: nevermind I see where you are getting it from. It appears to have been listed in the Westmere-EP category, but if you look at the bottom of the page its full product name is SRV [GULFTOWN] Processor W3680 3.33 GHz, 12M Cache, 6.40 GT/s Intel® QPI, FC-LGA10, Tray, 130W, AT80613003543AF. Like I said, their naming conventions are confusing it appears to stretch to the database of products too. It wouldn't surprise me if it had been changed from the same codename as the consumer version (i.e Bloomfield) to being included with the dual processor parts because Intel to stuff like that, but it doesn't really see to be the case.