Intel Does Own the Thunderbolt Trademark, Not Apple

[Duluth Baptist]

If Intel supports both there is a greater chance of having both USB 3 and Thunderbolt on a Mac, but it's not a sure thing. Jobs doesn't seem enamored with USB 3 and if he tries to compete with it using Thunderbolt we're in for a bad time. By "we" I mean "those of us who will continue to use Macs."

In an ideal world the formats will coexist. Thunderbolt will gain ubiquity, and eventually USB 3 can be phased down. If manufacturers perceive that they need to take sides, neither Intel nor Apple are likely to find friends eager to work with them when a good format already exists.

 

[AidenShaw]

If Intel supports both there is a greater chance of having both USB 3 and Thunderbolt on a Mac, but it's not a sure thing. Jobs doesn't seem enamored with USB 3 and if he tries to compete with it using Thunderbolt we're in for a bad time.

You're assuming that Steve Jobs' opinions will be relevant when Ivy Bridge ships.

 

[Obi-Wan Kubrick]

It's annoying and broken by design, maybe?

I agree, it isn't hard to flip it around and try again. However, you shouldn't have to do that. It was designed poorly.

 

[Duluth Baptist]

You're assuming that Steve Jobs' opinions will be relevant when Ivy Bridge ships.

Good point, but he certainly has an influence on what the company does, even from afar.

My hope is that ivy bridge Macs will ship with both ports. I'm already stuck using USB 2 with WD drives that are USB 3 equipped.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

So is the TB port permanently part of the monitor port now? It seems like Apple and Intel implemented that when USB said no to their efforts to embed it in a USB port. But will they change this in the future? Adapters would work for older ports in that case.

I just don't like this set up. I read that TB is hot swappable but if a monitor is in the chain, then it must be last and is not hot swappable. It reminds me too much of scsi.

Good point, but he certainly has an influence on what the company does, even from afar.

^ True. Intel and Apple have a good working relationship now. Some people like to just post some anti-apple rhetoric hoping to get a rise out of people. Don't let it rankle.

 

[fat jez]

I read that TB is hot swappable but if a monitor is in the chain, then it must be last and is not hot swappable.

Only while the monitor uses the displayport protocol natively. Once Thunderbolt enabled monitors are available, the monitor can be anywhere in the chain, as the displayport data will be carried inside Thunderbolt packets. It's just at the moment that any device which is displayport only has to be at the end.

I wonder, then, if there is no displayport device connected to the bus, do we get two Thunderbolt streams instead of 1 Thunderbolt and 1 displayport. Anybody know?

 

[Bodie]

Thunderbolt ⚡ inside

 

[JAT]

All USB plugs have the USB logo on the top. If you didn't know that by now, I don't know what to tell you. There's no close inspection required.

No, they don't. Some do, some are "upside down", some have no logos, some have different logos. (why the last one, I can't fathom)

 

[FroMann]

Good, now put thunderbolt on other manufactures machines so companies can make external devices that support it.

 

[res1233]

Image

That's symmetry. If you call that asymmetric, then USB is also asymmetric

He means asymmetry across at least ONE axis, in this case, horizontal. USB is perfectly symmetrical on the outside across all axes. VGA is not and as such provides tactile feedback.

 

[KnightWRX]

Some do, some are "upside down", some have no logos, some have different logos. (why the last one, I can't fathom)

Unlicensed knock-offs.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I will admit no matter what the port is if it can go in upside down I will try it at some point. It not that hard to figure out "Oh it does not go in that way" and flip it around and try the other way. No matter what the port design I tend to do that because it is a quick this is not going in flip it and try again. If that fails then I look at it and see what I may be doing wrong.
The flip normally fails if the port is really tight. But really no matter what the port is I tend to try to put thing in upside down at some point. I have a feeling most people are that way.

TB point I can promise you that I would end up trying to put that one in upside down. THat is an issue with doing things blindly.

 

[Duluth Baptist]

It occurred to me today that I hadn't considered the other major competitive issue with thunderbolt, the reason it could be such a big deal to Apple.

USB is a one device, one plug format; no matter how much bandwidth you have, you still need a plug for every device. Thunderbolt's daisy-chain capability isn't just a nice convenience--it brings Macs one step closer to the cable-free lifestyle they have been pushing. The keyboard that comes with the machine uses bluetooth, the mouse uses bluetooth. Who wants to plug everything in?

This makes me wonder if Apple is going to introduce wireless iDevice syncronization in the near future. They've been criticized for not doing it before, and if they continue to use USB2 the criticism will start getting louder soon. But with wireless sync and Thunderbolt, Jobs can unveil Macs that only have a power cable and one connector, always and ever. Fits into their design ideal, too.

 

[KnightWRX]

USB is a one device, one plug format; no matter how much bandwidth you have, you still need a plug for every device. Thunderbolt's daisy-chain capability isn't just a nice convenience--it brings Macs one step closer to the cable-free lifestyle they have been pushing. The keyboard that comes with the machine uses bluetooth, the mouse uses bluetooth. Who wants to plug everything in?

Uh... daisy chaining requires cables too, and one plug per device. It just happens that devices are hooked up in a bus type topology instead of a star topology.

 

[AidenShaw]

Uh... daisy chaining requires cables too, and one plug per device. It just happens that devices are hooked up in a bus type topology instead of a star topology.

Doesn't it require two plugs per device - except for the end point?

 

[sine-nomine]

Unlicensed knock-offs.

Well, 2 of the 3 cables I mentioned earlier with the logo on the bottom came with Western Digital Elements drives, so they are probably not unlicensed knockoffs.

 

[Duluth Baptist]

I was unclear. I was referring to the number of cables plugged into the Mac, not the total number of cables.

 

[JasperJanssen]

It's annoying and broken by design, maybe?

Well, no, it isn't. Making connectors that fit both ways up (let alone all four) is pretty much impossible except for very-low-pincount, low-dataspeed ones -- MagSafe and standard round power supply pins, RCA plugs and audio jacks, that sort of thing. Now try designing the same thing with 30-odd pins, each of which *has* to be correctly connected or data transmission will fail.

Not even RJ-style plugs are immune to this, and they're already pretty damn simple.

DVI may well be the worst offender, mainly because the pins are very much not robust.

 

[KnightWRX]

Doesn't it require two plugs per device - except for the end point?

It requires the same number of plugs. Except plugs are scattered around your devices instead of all being on your hub.

 

[mack pro]

If pluging in a usb device is too much work then I don't know what to tell you guys. I don't see anybody complaining about the power sockets in their homes and you can only plug something into them one way. As for Thunderbolt it's going to be the new Firewire nobody is gonna use it except for LTD.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

TB just scored. Up 4-3 in the third period. The NHL will probably wait for the playoffs to end before suing over the use of their logo for thunderbolt.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

He means asymmetry across at least ONE axis, in this case, horizontal. USB is perfectly symmetrical on the outside across all axes. VGA is not and as such provides tactile feedback.

You are correct but the way to describe the greater symmetry of USB is that the USB port has two planes of symmetry (reflections are the same) and one C2 axis of symmetry (rotate 180 degrees to get the same). The VGA has no axis of symmetry and only one plane of symmetry. It is the axis of rotation symmetry that is directly applicable to the problem being discussed.

 

[abhimat.gautam]

Bright Side of the News

Haha, pretty appropriate name for this news.

 

[doctor-don]

OK, quick, how many of you know which side the motherboard is on? I thought so.

No you're wrong, the vast majority of us really appreciate the utility of standardized USB and the benefits of replacing the plethora of Windows-IBM-Mac crap connectors before it came along. People complaining about having to buy a cable adapter for TBolt don't have a clue as to how many adapters you needed before (I have several bags of M-F, 9-25-50, print, parallel, serial adapters and cables from the bad ol' days). Not fun.

And too many novices bent or broke off some of those pins while trying to insert those parallel connectors ... all because they would not take the time to look for the imprinted arrow to align the plug with the port. USB was a welcome improvement.

 

[doctor-don]

TB just scored. Up 4-3 in the third period. The NHL will probably wait for the playoffs to end before suing over the use of their logo for thunderbolt.

Image Image​

Elvis' estate will take ALL of them to court.