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Intel iMac CPU Swappable?

Hector said:
pentium M's are like 80% cache, the addition of a core does not cause a large difference in power consumption, besides the second core shuts down when not in use.

only pay attention to the letter before the cpu T, L and UL.

as for merom it uses the same P4 bus as yonah, but intel may decide to move a pin randomly because they are like that.

oh and solo's and duo's are completely compatible with each other.
Click to expand...
So I will be able to swap my MacBook Solo Chip for a Duo Chip and have a MacBook pro!
 
SiliconAddict said:
Mine doesn't. Its an IBM X31 Thinkpad and the chip is soldered to the motherboard.
Click to expand...

edit: **** no thats a regular pentium M, odd never seen that looks like they just soldered it on....
 
Hector said:
edit: **** no thats a regular pentium M, odd never seen that looks like they just soldered it on....
Click to expand...


Nope. the system is older then the ULV 1.4Ghz. At the time all they had was 1Ghz ULV chips for the Banias. EDIT: Actually I think it maxed out at 900Mhz.

Double edit: HEHE Never mind...
 
Replacing the chip ...

... with one with a higher speed rating doesn't make the processor run any faster.

You must also modify the clock settings, if in fact the settings can be modified. I expect that you'd have to hack about in the firmware.
 
Bassman59 said:
... with one with a higher speed rating doesn't make the processor run any faster.

You must also modify the clock settings, if in fact the settings can be modified. I expect that you'd have to hack about in the firmware.
Click to expand...
This is not true. The internal clock frequency is generated by a multiplier of FSB frequency. The 2 Ghz chips are simply flashed with a different multiplier value then the 1.83 Ghz chip. Notice that they all are using the same FSB speed. You will only have to change the fimware to modify the FSB frequency.
 
Bassman59 said:
... with one with a higher speed rating doesn't make the processor run any faster.

You must also modify the clock settings, if in fact the settings can be modified. I expect that you'd have to hack about in the firmware.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt this. I'm pretty sure one of the reasons intel are pushing EFI is for people to have less control over their CPU. I'd bet it's autodetect.

supremedesigner said:
I remembered Steve first showed us iMac last year with 3.6 gHz so I am assuming it might be safe to upgrade it 😀
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That was a PowerMac case with a P4 inside it, not an iMac.
 
Bassman59 said:
... with one with a higher speed rating doesn't make the processor run any faster.

You must also modify the clock settings, if in fact the settings can be modified. I expect that you'd have to hack about in the firmware.
Click to expand...

Um yes it does. I've done this on several P3 laptops. As long as the BIOS supports the CPU speed and the clock speed it should work perfectly fine. That being said if the system only supports a 900Mhz chips (up from a 500Mhz chip) and you drop a 1Ghz chip the system will only clock up to 900Mhz. I've done this in dell latitude systems. It does work.
also even if you don't get a bump in the clocks most newer chips will come with larger caches and better branch prediction all of which a system can use even if the "speed" of the chip isn't faster.

What will be interesting will be to see if Napa that is being used in the MacBooks is compatible with Merom. supposedly Napa is the chipset of choice for Merom and if Merom runs cooler then the Core Duo it shouldn't be a prob fitting it in existing MacBooks. However there is the whole voiding warrantee thing that I'm not even going near.
 
matthewHUB said:
Sounds interesting... not.
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more wrong. This is extremely interesting for Mac users, as upgrading was always a limitation of Macs versus PCs, especially a self-contained all-in-one system like the iMac. On the contrary, this could be huge. 😎

I heard that the Yonah will be pin-compatible with the Merom - this could aso be huge then. 😱

However, my main concern would be one of heat. The iMac is designed to support 1.83 GHz and 2 GHz chips, so swapping a 1.83 with a 2 is fine, sure, but what about when higher speed chips come out? Due to the precise and seemingly unforgiving design of the iMac, even if the socket could take a 2.5 GHz Yonah (or whatever), would the iMac itself be able to handle it, or would the extra heat throw everything off and melt the box?

Nonetheless, very interesting, and promising. This could be especially useful for the future PowerMacs. 😎

supremedesigner said:
I remembered Steve first showed us iMac last year with 3.6 gHz so I am assuming it might be safe to upgrade it 😀
Click to expand...

Um, that was a P4 running in a PowerMac - bit of a different situation. 🙄 But if you want to downgrade your Core Duo to a P4, be my guest... 😛 😎
 
SiliconAddict said:
Um yes it does. I've done this on several P3 laptops. As long as the BIOS supports the CPU speed and the clock speed it should work perfectly fine. That being said if the system only supports a 900Mhz chips (up from a 500Mhz chip) and you drop a 1Ghz chip the system will only clock up to 900Mhz. I've done this in dell latitude systems. It does work.
also even if you don't get a bump in the clocks most newer chips will come with larger caches and better branch prediction all of which a system can use even if the "speed" of the chip isn't faster.

What will be interesting will be to see if Napa that is being used in the MacBooks is compatible with Merom. supposedly Napa is the chipset of choice for Merom and if Merom runs cooler then the Core Duo it shouldn't be a prob fitting it in existing MacBooks. However there is the whole voiding warrantee thing that I'm not even going near.
Click to expand...

Well that settles it then, if you can do it in a Dell you can probably do it in an Apple. As you say, if the bios support stops at a lower level it will be capped... but at least there is an upgrade path...

Can the graphics card be upgraded (sorry noob question) in an iMac or MacBook Pro?
 
~Shard~ said:
Um, that was a P4 running in a PowerMac - bit of a different situation. 🙄 But if you want to downgrade your Core Duo to a P4, be my guest... 😛 😎
Click to expand...

LOL It's their fault. They didn't provide Closed Caption so I don't know what's going on! 😉
 
~Shard~ said:
Um, that was a P4 running in a PowerMac - bit of a different situation. 🙄 But if you want to downgrade your Core Duo to a P4, be my guest... 😛 😎
Click to expand...

Yes you can do that, you will need nail scissors to trim off some excess silicon, but these things are very failure tolerate. Intel CPUs only use 10% of their brain anyway. The penguins have the rest.
 
dollystereo said:
So I will be able to swap my MacBook Solo Chip for a Duo Chip and have a MacBook pro!
Click to expand...

Interesting thought! 😉 Some of the other components and interfaces would be different, but solely from a chip perspective, it might be possible. That being said, you run into the possible heat issues again. A laptop is a confined space, and perhaps, for some reason, the MacBook will be designed to only support a single core chip, i.e. perhaps it will be thinner and more compact. Who knows....

supremedesigner said:
LOL It's their fault. They didn't provide Closed Caption so I don't know what's going on! 😉
Click to expand...

Well, now you know. 😉 As I said, bit of a different situation - and we will never see a P4 in a Mac on a go-forward basis. 😎
 
dollystereo said:
So I will be able to swap my MacBook Solo Chip for a Duo Chip and have a MacBook pro!
Click to expand...

MB Pro is not all about the processor. It has alot of other features, especially the higher resolution screen.
 
This is great news, but those of you talking about upgrading in 2 or 3 years and "having a new machine" are making a bit too much of it. I use both macs and PCs, and I build my own PCs, and I've been using PCs longer than macs. I'm a gamer so I upgrade my PC fairly often (say, once every 1.5 - 3 years depending on the pace of technology). I have NEVER been able to just drop a new CPU in - even upgrading fairly often, by the time I upgrade the machine, a new socket is in use. This is true of both Intel and AMD. Upgrading a PC inevitably includes a new Motherboard, a new CPU, often a new type of RAM, and often a new video card.

What would be impressive is if they come out with powermacs that accept off the shelf ATX motherboards... Then we'd be talking upgradability.
 
Several things

Chipsets and Sockets
-typical lifecycle of a chipset 1-2 yrs
-typical lifecycle of a socket 3-4 yrs
-combination of feature addition and CPU support (in the form of increased FSB)
-the Core Solo/Duo (Yonah) use the same socket as the Pentium M (Napa/Dothan), , considering the chipset roadmap, there is little to drive a change of the socket design for the Merom as there is no FSB change, and the feature set at this point is reasonably complete (memory support, wireless protocols, PCI Express)
-not directly linked to socket eg. the P4 has seen 3 sockets (S423, S478, LGA775), but close to 4x that number of chipsets
-generally there are overlap models i.e. newer CPU for previous gen sockets
http://www.intel.com/design/Pentium4/documentation.htm

Memory Speed
-increases in memory speed are not trivial as evidenced by very minimal changes in the FSB and memory support --> faster CPU does not necessitate faster memory, faster memory controller necessitates faster memory

Heat Concerns
-Intel specifies the same thermal dissipation for the 1.74 GHz, and 2.26 GHz Pentium M, 27.0 W
-generally keeping within the same family of processors (all Yonah, or all Merom, etc.) should allow for reasonably swapping between any of the member CPUs
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/list.asp

EFI/BIOS Support
-the one major area where Apple could limit the exchange of processors. the BIOS/EFI must support the CPUID.
-new CPU introductions on the PC side must usually be accompanied by new BIOS revisions by the motherboard manufacturers
 
vgermax said:
Heat Concerns
-Intel specifies the same thermal dissipation for the 1.74 GHz, and 2.26 GHz Pentium M, 27.0 W
-generally keeping within the same family of processors (all Yonah, or all Merom, etc.) should allow for reasonably swapping between any of the member CPUs
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/list.asp
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the info, this is the kind of stuff I was wondering about. 😎

vgermax said:
EFI/BIOS Support
-the one major area where Apple could limit the exchange of processors. the BIOS/EFI must support the CPUID.
-new CPU introductions on the PC side must usually be accompanied by new BIOS revisions by the motherboard manufacturers
Click to expand...

Good point, this was something else that had crossed my mind as well. Wouldn't Apple need to explicitly include the processor in the EFI for it to work with the system? I'm not too knowledgeable yet when it comes to this, so if anyone else could shed any light on it...
 
Core Solo and Core Duo both use the 945 chipset from intel. When Merom is introduced this summer, it will initially be released on the 945 chipset as well. The replacement chipset supporting 1033 MHz FSB won't be released until next year. (Note: I'm posting from memory, it might only be 800 MHz on the mobile core, I know the desktop revision will support 1033 and 1333 MHz)
 
vgermax said:
-the Core Solo/Duo (Yonah) use the same socket as the Pentium M (Napa/Dothan)
Click to expand...

(It's Banias/Dothan, by the way)

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627

The Yonah socket is still a 479-pin interface, however the pin-out has been changed once more, and of course Yonah won’t even physically fit into any current Pentium M motherboards.

yonahpins.jpg


Yonah (left) vs. Dothan (right) - Note the different pin-out
 
jahutch said:
This is great news, but those of you talking about upgrading in 2 or 3 years and "having a new machine" are making a bit too much of it. I use both macs and PCs, and I build my own PCs, and I've been using PCs longer than macs. I'm a gamer so I upgrade my PC fairly often (say, once every 1.5 - 3 years depending on the pace of technology). I have NEVER been able to just drop a new CPU in - even upgrading fairly often, by the time I upgrade the machine, a new socket is in use. This is true of both Intel and AMD. Upgrading a PC inevitably includes a new Motherboard, a new CPU, often a new type of RAM, and often a new video card.

What would be impressive is if they come out with powermacs that accept off the shelf ATX motherboards... Then we'd be talking upgradability.
Click to expand...

This has not been my experience. Just a few months ago I took my 1.8Ghz (400FS) P4 machine and without upgrading the MB or the RAM I put a 2.24Ghz P4 (533FSB) that I bought for $60. After that I sold the 1.8Ghz on ebay for $50. So for $10 net I was able to upgrade 400+Mhz.

I've done the same with Athlons and P3's.

I agree if you make a large jump, you'll may need to (or want to) upgrade the MB and RAM. But I do not agree it's always necessary based on my experience.
 
Mike Teezie said:
Cool.

Methinks Apple won't like it too much though.
Click to expand...
What I usually do with my home-built systems (and sometimes the Dells and HPs) is to:

o By the system early with a lower to mid-range CPU (when the chips first come out, the top speeds are quite expensive)

o At the end-of-life for the chip line, buy the fastest one available (which is probably cheaper than you paid for the mid-range one a year earlier)

I did that with

o 266 MHz PII (66 MHz bus)
-> 533 MHz Celeron (fastest chip that supported the 66MHz bus)

o 1.5 GHz P4 (400 MHz RDRAM)
-> 2.6 GHz P4 (fastest chip to support 400 MHz bus)

I'll be repeating the cycle sometime this fall, probably with a dual-core Conroe or maybe dual-dual Sossaman or Woodcrest chips.

The "end-of-life" is hard to guess, but you can be pretty sure that after Merom is release that Yonah prices will drop a lot!
 
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