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Mac Pros - Mac Users?

"It's very clear that Apple has decided that it is more profitable to sell iPads than it is to sell Mac Pros. The fact that the Pros haven't been updated in two years suggests one of two possibilities: one, that they are SO busy working on a FANTASTIC Mac Pro update that when it comes out everyone will think it was well worth the wait, or, two, they simply don't care about that market anymore. Expect the Pro to be discontinued or perhaps kept on life support with minimal updates, using up minimal resources so Apple can focus their personnel on what REALLY makes them money, which is iOS.

"The argument that "pros need powerful PCs" is becoming less of an issue these days as the technology gets more and more powerful. ...."

I had made much the very same point on my on blog... two years ago.

"The galling point for us Design Pros, and I am talking about Publishing, Photography, Graphics and Web Design, is that Apple has tossed us to the curb YEARS ago to the tender mercies of Adobe. Go into an Apple store and good luck finding any serious pro gear, such as an tabloid size (11″ x 17″) printer or press quality scanner. Not for the likes of us. And we’ve been crying for a mid-range Mac for frakkin’ ages. The majority of us would probably be quite comfortable with the performance range of the 27″ i7 iMac in an expandable tower configuration. The price gap between the i7 iMac nicely appointed and the Base Mac Pro and Display is enough to buy a decent laptop and the Adobe CS5 upgrade. Which I might mention is a non-trivial sum. Adobe enjoys a near monopoly in the must-have graphics applications that design pros use such as Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Flash and Actobat, and charge us accordingly. The further fact that Apple has done away with all non-glossy screens except for the BTO MacBookPro, shows their disdain for Design pros over “oooohhh shiny,” which does look spiffier in the Apple Store lighting." - Fantastic Realities Studio Blog - Mac-Pros? Mac Users?

And truthfully, even though I was recently forced to purchase a Mac Pro in November to run the Adobe Creative Suite upgrade, retiring my pampered and still perfectly functional G5 Tower, my needs would probably, in terms of pure performance, been adequately served by the high-end 27" iMac. I'd save some money, too. (F**ing scads, actually) Apple has been pushing the Macbook Pro and the i7 iMac as the "Pro" machines for "most of us" - to fill the "pro" niche of Steve's four part "Consumer, Pro and Desktop, Portable" strategy. And honestly, My three year old MBP will run Final Cut Express reasonably well, while my old G5 just sits there staring at the project and says, "maybe you want to go get a sandwich while I render this."

But I did want the RAM expandability, the slots, the extra drive bays, with two 1TB drives set up as a mirrored RAID array, and other expandability options. I honestly never know what the HELL my design clients are going to ask me to attempt next. So here I am.

It was funny in the Apple Store, when I strode up to the SINGLE Mac pro in the shop, the infantry level Apple minions FLED from me, and had to get a "Black Shirt" - some sort of Business specialist to assist me. To be fair, this guy was not a kid, and very polite and knowledgeable about printing and design issues. Was not a hipster pushing an iPhone at me. So points for that. Makes me an Apple "Business customer" Woot. So we're not dead just yet.

But I would put Intel's feet to the fire as much as Apple, as they only released the Xeon E5 Series Sandy Bridge processors in March... delayed over a year. So I hardly expected a new MP to appear swiftly following Intel's announcement. With Thunderbolt now appearing as a marquee feature on the entire rest of the line, I am pretty sure Apple would be loath to release a Mac Pro without it. And you can't put TB on a PCI card, as it is a processor/motherboard level protocol. But considering that the first releases of Ivy Bridge are for laptops and consumer desktops, it's obvious that Intel is not all that interested in workstations either, and is putting it's effort where it perceives it's market—and money to be.

Oh. Those of you waiting for Blu-Ray... dream on. NOT gonna happen. Apple is ALL IN for pure digital. Note the ending of optical media, boxed software and optical drives on the rest of the line. If Apple chooses to re-design the Pro case, the Optical Drive bays may be gone, and Firewire may be on the way out too.

I don't know what's going to happen with the Mac Pro, or Apples support for professional users of all types. But it's kind of strange to think that I may very now own what might be one of the last Mac Pros ever made.
 
Some very good points, but one glaring error:

And you can't put TB on a PCI card, as it is a processor/motherboard level protocol.

T-Bolt is a PCIe to PCIe bridge.

Those mobo PCIe lane traces going to the T-Bolt controller could just as easily go to a PCIe socket and a T-Bolt controller on a PCIe card.

The horrible flaw with T-Bolt is that T-Bolt 1.0 is co-mingled with DisplayPort graphics.

Expect T-Bolt 1.1 to support PCIe card implementations without DisplayPort. Once you remove the DisplayPort crap from the T-Bolt spec, PCIe card T-Bolt controllers are easy.

Note that even a mobo T-Bolt controller is a problem if you have a PCIe graphics card.... (A discrete GPU on the mobo is not a problem - since the DP signal traces are on the mobo so they can be routed to the T-Bolt controller.)
 
The iPad will *never* replace a laptop computer. It's physically impossible. That is, until someone finds a method to type characters onto a screen without the use of a keyboard that is as fast/accurate as a regular keyboard (not the awful touchscreen variety).
Keyboard iPad cases solve that problem (as do external Bluetooth keyboards). Of course, cursor placement is still much easier with a trackpad on a laptop compared to the iPad but the keyboard issue itself can be reasonable easily solved.
 
Wow.
Dual Core in 2012 in Apple laptops when other manufactures are going quad or higher on their laptops. Image


This is not related to Apple, this requirements of this new ultra low voltage cpus from Intel - all depends what manufacturers put in notebook and how much battery life they want.
 
Keyboard iPad cases solve that problem (as do external Bluetooth keyboards). Of course, cursor placement is still much easier with a trackpad on a laptop compared to the iPad but the keyboard issue itself can be reasonable easily solved.

Someone in my group has a 12" ThinkPad (company issued) and a personal Ipad in a keyboard case.

The ThinkPad is smaller and lighter than the Ipad plus keyboard case.

Small and light systems that require external cases, keyboards, disks, optical drives, ethernet dongles, video dongles... - well, in the end your bag weighs more than if you had the system with it all built-in.

It gives a whole new meaning to the cliché "less is more" !
 
The point is, if a chip runs hotter a chip runs hotter at any temp.
The very last thing you want in ANY Apple product (due to overly snug designs) is any component running hotter. You always want to get the heat out of the CPU and into the cooling parts of your computer design.

Yes, the Ivy Bridge CPUs run hotter, but they are smaller than Sandy Bridge, so put out less heat.
 
Someone in my group has a 12" ThinkPad (company issued) and a personal Ipad in a keyboard case.

The ThinkPad is smaller and lighter than the Ipad plus keyboard case.

Small and light systems that require external cases, keyboards, disks, optical drives, ethernet dongles, video dongles... - well, in the end your bag weighs more than if you had the system with it all built-in.

It gives a whole new meaning to the cliché "less is more" !


But, but...................................:D
 
Some very good points, but one glaring error:



T-Bolt is a PCIe to PCIe bridge.

Those mobo PCIe lane traces going to the T-Bolt controller could just as easily go to a PCIe socket and a T-Bolt controller on a PCIe card.

The horrible flaw with T-Bolt is that T-Bolt 1.0 is co-mingled with DisplayPort graphics.

Expect T-Bolt 1.1 to support PCIe card implementations without DisplayPort. Once you remove the DisplayPort crap from the T-Bolt spec, PCIe card T-Bolt controllers are easy.

Note that even a mobo T-Bolt controller is a problem if you have a PCIe graphics card.... (A discrete GPU on the mobo is not a problem - since the DP signal traces are on the mobo so they can be routed to the T-Bolt controller.)

I don't think this is related to DisplayPort - there is actually implementations of device that control pci express and pcie card external from Thunderbolt.

http://www.magma.com/thunderbolt.asp

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresscard34thunderbolt.html

What I am hoping this technology involves to is the following

1. A smaller adapter so thinner notebooks will be supported
2. Docking station - for external drivers, faster graphics, network and display
3. Wireless USB - for mice and keyboard

The goal is to half ultra thin computer when on the go - and when at home plug it to a workstation capable machine.

For example you could have the following while mobile
1. SSD, reasonable graphics and laptop screen

For when at home
1. External monitors - I love dual 24in or larger
2. Faster desktop / workstation graphics
3. Larger external drives - Terabytes
4. Optical drives
5. Ethernet Network
 
What is "Turbo Boost"? It kinda sounds like BS to me, but does anyone know if it actually means anything?

----------

Wow.
Dual Core in 2012 in Apple laptops when other manufactures are going quad or higher on their laptops. Image

Wouldn't a quad-core processor chew up your battery?

If I'm going to do anything serious, I'm using my desktop PC. My 2006 MacBook is good enough (and has a faster CPU than some of the Air models, which is sad).

----------

The iPad will *never* replace a laptop computer. It's physically impossible. That is, until someone finds a method to type characters onto a screen without the use of a keyboard that is as fast/accurate as a regular keyboard (not the awful touchscreen variety).

The laptop computer is alive and very healthy. It's going nowhere.

Now where is my updated 17" MBP?? I couldn't care less about these tiny ultrabooks....

The iPad cannot replace a MacBook Pro, but I can see it replacing a MacBook Air. If you want a small computer to carry around just for business, the iPad is a lot better and cheaper. It also has the option of 3G, which is important.

As for my grandma, she is definitely getting an old iPad instead of a PowerBook G4.
 
Intel HD 4000 has been getting decent reviews.. should be good for MBA

I'm with you. I had thought Apple wouldn't update the air's for a while, but with the Ultrabook market heating up, I think they will right away - on June 11.

I'll bet the MBPs get an overhaul, and the Airs will get a proc bump.
 
I've been using an Ivy Bridge Windows desktop for a while and am pleasantly surprised by the power of its built-in HD 4000 GPU. It might not be a powerhouse but at lower resolutions it plays all the 3D games I threw at it well enough. It'll be a great upgrade for those who want to do some 3D gaming on their Macbook Airs.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I ought that Aplle doesn't utilize Intel's Quick Sync VC-1 to decode and encode video?



Ivy Bridge CPU: Up to 25 percent more performance, up to 20 percent less heat*.
Ivy Bridge IGP: Up to 60 percent more performance, and less heat*.

The maximum Turbo Boost frequency is also higher, because the CPU/GPU produces less heat. Intels Quick Sync VC-1, MPEG-2 and H.264 decoder/encoder is up to 40 percent faster*.

(*compared with Sandy Bridge)
 
Best wait for Haswell

For all those licking their lips in anticipation of upgrading MB Airs and MB Pro's I think the Intel road map for Haswell processors suggests that 2013 would be the best time to upgrade, given the huge advance over the GPU side of the chip over Ivy Bridge - a 2.5X speed increase, or nearly 5X speed increase over Sandy Bridge HD3000 - add this to Retina display and higher SSD capabilities and you'll have one hell of a machine - now thats exciting and takes care of how to power the Retina display/ extend battery life.

So my advice FWIW is for anyone with a C2D machine to upgrade, those with Sandy Bridge should avoid this update and wait 12 months for what seems to be a most compelling mobile future.
 
....

So my advice FWIW is for anyone with a C2D machine to upgrade, those with Sandy Bridge should avoid this update and wait 12 months for what seems to be a most compelling mobile future.

That makes a lot of sense but it get tricky for us looking to get first MacBook Air and use it only for travel (so very light workload). At what price difference it's worth going with the current (soon to be previous and hopefully with a price drop to clear inventory) model if only change is CPU and GPU.
 
Wow.
Dual Core in 2012 in Apple laptops when other manufactures are going quad or higher on their laptops. Image

Not sure you quite know what your talking about. Either that or you just trolling?
 

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...iMacs just don't have the power, and many people need to choose their own monitors and add on's. no a mac mini wont do the trick for most of these people

iMacs have the power, but not the expansion. One could argue the GFX card options on the iMac don't have the power but Apple has never offered decent GPUs on it's systems since I could remember . . . . 2004 at least.

The Mac Mini has always been that niche computer with a big heart. People use it to mount a CPU on to things, stuff it in corners, cars, and racks. A heavy lifting workstation it is not, but it is freaking sweet.

I can see the day rapidly approaching that the iMac is the only Mac desktop offered. The day is getting close.

I still think the Mini would be offered. It's practically Apple's new server.
 
Someone in my group has a 12" ThinkPad (company issued) and a personal Ipad in a keyboard case.

The ThinkPad is smaller and lighter than the Ipad plus keyboard case.

Small and light systems that require external cases, keyboards, disks, optical drives, ethernet dongles, video dongles... - well, in the end your bag weighs more than if you had the system with it all built-in.

It gives a whole new meaning to the cliché "less is more" !

Before I thought about getting a Mac I remember seeing snide remarks from the Mac side about PCs requiring dongles and adapters when it wasn't needed on a Mac. My how times have changed...
 
Not sure you quite know what your talking about. Either that or you just trolling?
Those are Pro, which has already been speculated to be discontinued.
So this leaves the Air, which is Dual Core only.
It seems Apple is opting for battery life and low performance for consumer "toys" over business grade laptops.
 
It seems Apple is opting for battery life and low performance for consumer "toys" over business grade laptops.

Apple from the very start was a consumer company. They sometimes veered into other areas, especially the creative professionals, but at its heart, it has always been a company that catered to the needs of regular consumers. Their most successful and iconic products, Apple I/II, Macintosh, iPhone, iPad, etc, were all derided for being consumer "toys".
 
For all those licking their lips in anticipation of upgrading MB Airs and MB Pro's I think the Intel road map for Haswell processors suggests that 2013 would be the best time to upgrade, given the huge advance over the GPU side of the chip over Ivy Bridge - a 2.5X speed increase, or nearly 5X speed increase over Sandy Bridge HD3000 - add this to Retina display and higher SSD capabilities and you'll have one hell of a machine - now thats exciting and takes care of how to power the Retina display/ extend battery life.

So my advice FWIW is for anyone with a C2D machine to upgrade, those with Sandy Bridge should avoid this update and wait 12 months for what seems to be a most compelling mobile future.

And what's coming after Haswell will be better. And what's coming after that will be even better.
 
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