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800 MHz clock on these? I trust that they'll be plenty fast and OK for new machines...Intel know its stuff...but am I the only one having a bit of throwback seeing numbers like that? :)

My 2008 Mac Pro uses 2.8 GHz Quad-Core processors.

Introducing the 2015 MacBook Air. It has a processor speed from a decade ago, the same amount of RAM as a decade ago, the same amount of storage as a decade ago and finally to round things up it has the same price as a decade ago.

And introducing the "new" Apple logo, rainbow-colored.

We might as well buy old PowerBooks at this point. :rolleyes:

Let me know if you want to buy my 2004 PowerBook.

You guys just wait till Apple start to use floppy disks again...

REAL floppy disks? Are you referring to the 8-inch floppy disks?

Yeah, it's like the next iPad 3. I'll just wait until 6 months after it's released when Apple quietly releases a vastly improved version of it.

Honestly though, 12" is too small. I have a 13" MBA now and I feel like this is the smallest screen that's practical for me to use. I hope Apple doesn't force me to get a MBP in order to get a 13" screen, because I really love the form factor of my Air.

It's a good thing you didn't have to use one of the first Mac models that had a 9 inch screen.

...u have old floppy disks hanging around? I know I dont

In my stash I have several boxes of micro floppy diskettes and several mini floppy diskettes. There is ONE floppy disk remaining which was used mostly for demonstrating how the diskette changed over time.

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And I wonder how performance will be with anything less than the 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7 processor in my Mac Mini.
 
MHz is truly a poor metric for performance.
Very true when comparing different architectures. However in this case it is pretty obvious that Intel lowered the clock rate to hit a wattage figure. Current testing of existing hardware indicate very bad performance for this chip. Especially if you expect laptop performance to move forwards.

Now granted this indication isn't the result of a broad collection systems so we don't know how specific implementations can change the performance profile. However we do know that 4.5 watts is the low end on power draw and that the chip can run up to 12 watts.

It is very hard to do 12 watts in a passively cooled laptop so the indications are that the chip will be throttled a lot in a fanless design. In the end cutting back performance to 800 MHZ is a problem no matter how improved your architecture.
As I said earlier, this can be shown by the fact that an Intel CPU completely destroys an ARM-based CPU running at the same frequency. CPU architecture is why 800 MHz is not the bottleneck you'd think it would be.
Architecture is important but so is the rate that the architecture can execute. Intels architectural advancements haven't been all that great of late so we may be lucky to get 5% from Broadwell for the CPU. On a machine that constantly throttles the CPU below what Apples Haswell machines ran at that will be a problem.

As for your slagging of ARM I'd love to see head to head comparisons of this chip and Apples A8X. Sure the Intel hardware has the potential for bursts of higher performance but I'm not convinced that it could keep up with A8X when implemented in the same form factor.
Turbo-boost makes a tremendous difference for 99% of users, and for the rest (those who run CPU-heavy tasks), turbo-boost typically kicks-in anyway, assuming the CPU is operating below its TDP.
Actually turbo boost will kick in when it can run the chip hotter than TDP. Beyond that you have to remember that these machines are reputed to be driving retina screens which means the GPU is a more significant part of the power profile. 4.5 watts is trivial once the GPU is under any demand at all.
The MHz metric is absolutely irrelevant, based on how modern Intel CPUs work.
Actually you are absolutely wrong here. The ability to sustain clock rate is Very important for Intel hardware. Throttling sucks! If the platform can not allow the chip to run at a sustained high clock rate performance will suck. This is what we are seeing in current benchmarking.

Now one thing I'm confident about is that Apple can do better thermal engineering than just about anybody in the industry. The problem is this looks like more of a 12 watt chip than a 4.5 watt chip. That makes for a very difficult fanless implementation if you don't want to compromise performance by throttling.

So I can see Apple delivering a machine built on this chip but I can't see them exceeding MBA performance levels fanless. In fact I see far worst performance. This especially the case when you can update the MBA's to Broadwell with even higher performing chips.

I really think people need to be guarded in their expectations here. Apple can only work so much magic with what Intel gives them.
 
I noticed that they get more than double the clock speeds from "turbo boost", which is much more of a boost compared to i5/i7. So they're efficient because they essentially underclock automatically to very low speeds when not in "turbo" mode? I honestly know very little about CPUs.

You understand the problem and have described it with a clarity that indicates that you may understand more than you think. While I don't like the term underclocked, they in effect have lowered the clock rate to a point where they can advertise nice TDP numbers.
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The clock speed is meaningless because you're missing some factors unless you're comparing the same type and generation of processors. There were 3.0GHz Pentium 4 processors back in the day.

Err no! The clock rate is important because they obviously lowered the clock rate to get to a specific TDP figure. Combine that with the lack luster gains in architectural improvements over the last couple of years and this becomes a huge concern. The question then becomes just how bad of a performer is this chip when limited to 4.5 watts, we really don't know but there is enough evidence to indicate that it won't be pretty.
 
How much lighter can a MacBook Air get? Under 2 pounds?

Apple is making the next MacBook Air invisible. We will buy empty boxes then come here and rave about the innovation. ;)

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There is no way Apple is releasing an 800mhz MacBook Air, that's just a throwback idea from well over a decade ago.


My iBook is back in fashion :)
 
Everyone does realize that the article even makes it clear that the 800 MHz models are the lowest tier and Apple is allegedly considering the "higher end" 1.2 GHz chips, right? That's not a dramatic difference but its something that seems to be distorted here.

That is only somewhat important as in the end it is what the chip can sustain in a fanless environment that will make or break this chip and the machine it is built into. Will the performance at 1.2 GHZ be comparable to the current Airs at their base clock rate?

It is a valid question because we really don't want to see performance regressions as the Airs are already minimalist performance platforms. This is especially the case considering continuing increases in performance requirements to run Mac OS smoothly. Of course we have to wait and see what Apple delivers, I'm just not comfortable with the high expectations seen in this forum.
 
I will be waiting broadwell macbook pro. or perhaps skylake, with 5k capable display output.

I'd like to pickup a fully loaded "15 MBPr this month but I'm wondering if it would be worth it to hold out for 1/2 year or so.
 
Ultimately you need clock rate as architecture improvements only go so far. This combined with Intels questionable power rating methods leads to chips that run much hotter that their apparent power rating. Honestly there is a huge gap between 4 watts and 12. If the chip only really meets rated performance at 12 watts then you really need a platform designed to handle that power level.

Ultimately 900MHz is a joke no matter how you look at it. I really have to wonder how this chip would stack up next to Apples A8X understand sustained load. It would certainly do will turbo but if the chip can't sustain that I would imagine that performance is pretty ugly in comparison.

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I suspect that they could do it now. Apples chips don't have the same throttling problems, at least not to the extent that Intel has exhibited over the years. Phoney power ratings are nothing new for Intel here, if this is more of a twelve watt chip rather than a 4 watt then I could see A8X out performing it right now.

Of course performance is not everything, we don't know if the A8X has the I/O capability to actually do everything expected of a laptop. Still raw performance is pretty impressive in Apples latest IPads.

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Please remain skeptical! I just don't see this chip effectively performing to a point where it will be a decent MBA solution. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

The real problem with people talking about ARM vs x86 is that OS X runs on x86 based architecture, not ARM architecture. They would have to re-engineer the entire OS to run on ARM, and isn't that just iOS?
 
yikes.. even my 'bad luck with computers' buddies (who do nothing to upkeep their systems) get more battery life from their mbas than that.

Battery life was about an hour better in the beginning, and I didn't have to turn down the brightness to achieve it. AnandTech got about 4 1/2 hours in medium-level use in 2011, but I'm sure that the backlight was set higher for those tests. In any event, I'm hoping that the next MBA makes further improvements in battery life.
 
…the 5Y71 guarantees a sustained clock speed of 1.2 GHz.

I'm not even sure this is correct as it was my understanding that the GPU can impact the thermal profile causing throttling even below the base clock rate.

On the other hand I tend to agree that at best power ratings on modern processors is very confusing. Especially when chips have configurable power ratings.

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...u have old floppy disks hanging around? I know I dont

Hey now, I'm trying to get the IT department to upgrade a few machines at work that rely upon floppy disks. Seriously they need the floppy to do their job.

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Could be due to slim design, high 3200x1800 resolution and reduction to 3.5W TDP. Older reviews with 4.5 TDP stated 2.67 points on cinebench and that would be good enough.

Well it depends. Consider the reaction Apple has gotten to the 1.4 GHz Mini and IMac which is deserved, really as they are very low end machines. At 1.2 GHZ in these new Broadwell processors you might get the same CPU performance if you are lucky. We aren't even sure if the GPU will perform better. People need to remember what the GPU clocks here are.

In the end you might get a machine that holds its own against the poorest performing Macs of 2014. That might not even be sustainable.

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About as light as the iPad Pro. Yes, these chips will power the new iPad Pro that will be running OSX. The iPad Pro will also have an ARM processor on board. The reason the iPad Pro was delayed was because of these chips.

You seem to be awfully certain about that!
 
I'm not even sure this is correct as it was my understanding that the GPU can impact the thermal profile causing throttling even below the base clock rate.

On the other hand I tend to agree that at best power ratings on modern processors is very confusing. Especially when chips have configurable power ratings.

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Hey now, I'm trying to get the IT department to upgrade a few machines at work that rely upon floppy disks. Seriously they need the floppy to do their job.

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Well it depends. Consider the reaction Apple has gotten to the 1.4 GHz Mini and IMac which is deserved, really as they are very low end machines. At 1.2 GHZ in these new Broadwell processors you might get the same CPU performance if you are lucky. We aren't even sure if the GPU will perform better. People need to remember what the GPU clocks here are.

In the end you might get a machine that holds its own against the poorest performing Macs of 2014. That might not even be sustainable.

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You seem to be awfully certain about that!
The GPU performance will be MEH. especially at those low clock rates.
 
Mac's life cycle is ~7 years. Do you really think you can buy 800 MHz or even 1.2 GHz "Mac" in 2015 and use this calculator until 2020 with all software updates? Or now we must buy them every year or two? Who the hell needs this one-off computer?
Lot's of OS X features are already unsupported on my 2.4 GHz MacBook Pro from Mid 2010. All of them because of some missing wireless standards – none of them because of the maximum clock speed of its Core2Duo processor. The things that make this computer look old are its low pixel-density and high weight. And the aging fan starts to make noises. Otherwise I could use this computer until 2020 and beyond.
 
...I'd love to see head to head comparisons of this chip and Apples A8X. Sure the Intel hardware has the potential for bursts of higher performance but I'm not convinced that it could keep up with A8X when implemented in the same form factor.

Thinking back to the days when Apple was chained to the old boat anchor that was Motorola, I find Apple's ability to design CPUs that can challenge Intel absolutely amazing.

And you just know there's a locked off area within Apple HQ with OS X running on the A8X. :cool:
 
It's getting harder to think macs are the right choice anymore given their stance on totally not upgradeable computers now. It's really disappointing... why cant they let us upgrade ram and hard drives??

What is really disappoint is how ignorant people are with respect to technology.

First; many of Intels Mobile chips can only address 16GB of RAM. If you order a Mac, using such chips, with 16 GB of RAM there is no possible upgrade path.

Second; the industry is moving to faster and faster RAM interfaces and in Apples case very low power RAM in the new Minis. This requires soldered on RAM. Here is a brief explanation of some of the more common features of LPDDR3: http://www.virtium.com/blog/ddr3l-vs-lpddr3/

Third; soldered in RAM is only a stepping stone to RAM built into the processor module. See Knights Landing info for where Intel is going here. This of course is a Xeon Phi but workstation tech eventually works it's way down into the desktop. Why would they do this? Performance actually RAM is a huge bottle neck for today's processors and to go faster you need very fast and short buses to the CPU chip.

Fourth; what is all of your whining about hard drives? Hard drives are still upgradable in all Macs. Further the external storage solutions available these days are not excessive slow. Storage just isn't the problem it use to be.
 
Fourth; what is all of your whining about hard drives? Hard drives are still upgradable in all Macs.

To a point. You can still swap out any drive, but Apple hasn't made it easy for people to get to, and it voids the warranty.

I'm not sure about the random failure rate for SSDs, but magnetic drives are still as flaky as they've always been. For the two machines Apple still slaps those into, they should be easily accessible, at least for repairs sake.

Further the external storage solutions available these days are not excessive slow.

Now this is true, and something I've considered myself. Thunderbolt SSDs should only be a hair slower than a drive hooked directly to the motherboard via PCI-E, and even USB 3.0 is more than fast enough for file storage.

Other than making for a slight bit more clutter on your desk, there aren't any real disadvantages to going with an external drive.
 
The real problem with people talking about ARM vs x86 is that OS X runs on x86 based architecture, not ARM architecture. They would have to re-engineer the entire OS to run on ARM, and isn't that just iOS?

OSes have been almost completely written in high level languages for decades, they would not need to reengineer the whole thing.

Making OSX run on ARM does not convert it into iOS.
 
What is really disappoint is how ignorant people are with respect to technology.

First; many of Intels Mobile chips can only address 16GB of RAM. If you order a Mac, using such chips, with 16 GB of RAM there is no possible upgrade path.

Second; the industry is moving to faster and faster RAM interfaces and in Apples case very low power RAM in the new Minis. This requires soldered on RAM. Here is a brief explanation of some of the more common features of LPDDR3: http://www.virtium.com/blog/ddr3l-vs-lpddr3/

Third; soldered in RAM is only a stepping stone to RAM built into the processor module. See Knights Landing info for where Intel is going here. This of course is a Xeon Phi but workstation tech eventually works it's way down into the desktop. Why would they do this? Performance actually RAM is a huge bottle neck for today's processors and to go faster you need very fast and short buses to the CPU chip.

Fourth; what is all of your whining about hard drives? Hard drives are still upgradable in all Macs. Further the external storage solutions available these days are not excessive slow. Storage just isn't the problem it use to be.

I must react to this:
Ad 1) Yes, that's true, however, in Apple's case, MINIMAL configuration available should be EIGHT GB since at least 2013, if not 2012, not 4 GBs.

Ad 2) It's worth to save something in range 0.1 - 0.5 Watts in system like Mac Mini? For Apple, of course, as they will make more money from RAM upgrades and more frequent updates of hardware, but I'm not certain about customers' opinion to this :) .

Ad 3) That's true, mainly for IGPs which use RAM as VRAM. But soldering RAM won't provide significant speed bump , especially if you use lower-memory instead of normal-voltage modules... Energy had to be saved *SOMEWHERE*.

Ad 4) It's not comfortable to always carry some external drive with you... Cloud isn't solution, IMHO.

Hardware may become cheaper, more energy efficient and slower. But we'll pay more for more optimized software in exchange. We're terribly wasting so many CPU cycles...
 
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What is really disappoint is how ignorant people are with respect to technology.

First; many of Intels Mobile chips can only address 16GB of RAM. If you order a Mac, using such chips, with 16 GB of RAM there is no possible upgrade path.

Second; the industry is moving to faster and faster RAM interfaces and in Apples case very low power RAM in the new Minis. This requires soldered on RAM. Here is a brief explanation of some of the more common features of LPDDR3: http://www.virtium.com/blog/ddr3l-vs-lpddr3/

Third; soldered in RAM is only a stepping stone to RAM built into the processor module. See Knights Landing info for where Intel is going here. This of course is a Xeon Phi but workstation tech eventually works it's way down into the desktop. Why would they do this? Performance actually RAM is a huge bottle neck for today's processors and to go faster you need very fast and short buses to the CPU chip.

Fourth; what is all of your whining about hard drives? Hard drives are still upgradable in all Macs. Further the external storage solutions available these days are not excessive slow. Storage just isn't the problem it use to be.

Which chips? The ones I know are able to address 32GiB of RAM using 4 modules, and now it would be possible with 2 with a firmware upgrade.
 
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