Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

xinu

macrumors regular
Mar 9, 2012
211
0
Finland
That is COMPLETELY false. How long have the MacBook Pros been out with Thunderbolt? Its been OVER a year. Thunderbolt has been known about for even longer than that.

Most of us have only seen less than a dozen products mentioned as 'coming soon' on the macrumors website or elsewhere online. The devices in the real world have been driven into obscurity.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE at this point for things to be exactly the same as they were a year ago when the macbooks got released with thunderbolt. Worse yet, it doesnt look as if things are going to change anytime soon.

I'm all for TB, but Apple and Intel have failed miserably at releasing it.


How to do it properly:

- design peripherals in advance with manufacturers
- make own peripherals available before public introduction
- introduce new technology with new peripherals

Profit, succes, innovation.

(and dont rip off customers with copper wires, make them sell in millions and make the profits from masses)

And those remarks, "this is so PRO that average consumer wont need it"

Well its FireWire all over again. So sad.
 

DCJ001

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2007
521
253
That sounds like a great solution.

Can you boot camp that?

I don't run Windows.

But it's an external drive like FireWire or USB, only faster. So, if you can boot camp an external drive, yes.
 

wikus

macrumors 68000
Jun 1, 2011
1,795
2
Planet earth.
This guy said it best about the failure of thunderbolt:

Who cares what they (USB standards committee) want. It should be what's best for the consumer and society in general, not some committee looking only to promote its own interests. All they really had to do was create a dual-port with two different shapes on it that interlock. In other words, a USB port with an additional small vertical component that is only used for Thunderbolt devices. This way they can put multiple ports on a laptop and let the user decide what to use them for and yet computers with only one or the other will still fit their respective devices.

But putting ThunderStruck on a port that is not used hardly anywhere in the known Universe and then attaching it to video (worse than useless on a Mac Pro, for example) compounds the mistake many times over. Not only does this potentially choke Thunderbolt's potential because it has to carry video that it doesn't need to carry when a dedicated video port would do, but needlessly adds a video standard that is then going to be missing or a hassle and a half on any machine with video cards (like the Mac Pro) which would then either wipe out your Thunderbolt connections if you bought a different video card without Thunderbolt on it or leave you with a non-standard port that doesn't carry video but should be carrying it (thus being useless with monitor hubs, etc.) This is what happens when you start mixing bandwidth between unrelated devices.

Worse even yet is what happens when you only have ONE Thunderbolt port that is ALSO your video output port. Your monitor has to be the last device (unless it has its own hub) and so any devices you might need to hot connect or remove means unplugging your monitor back and forth with the other devices in-between since someone thought that daisy-chaining was a GREAT idea.... :rolleyes: Display port monitors that aren't thunderbolt will definitely have to be the last in the chain since they can't pass it at all period even if they have 2nd display port to pass just straight video. The standards were no designed together and then just arbitrarily linked by Apple. Bad move.

Let's face it. As soon as Apple gets USB 3.0 with Ivy Bridge, it's game over for Thunderbolt except as a high-end device (just like with Firewire). Incompatible ports + MDP ports that almost no one else uses + no reasonable priced hubs + no reasonable priced devices = FAIL. USB 3.0 is 100% backwards compatible with USB 2.x and 1.x and so you don't need any other ports on a mobile device. Plug in a hub and you're golden with as many ports as you need or can be sustained for available bandwidth. USB 3.0 can replace USB 2.x and 1.x and so it's a no-brainer low cost addition to virtually ALL computers in the near future while Thunderbolt is something that no one really needs and has no real device support beyond a few high-end things like mega-fast raid arrays and costs an arm and a lag for all existing hubs (tied to single monitor choices only from Apple). Little support = Fail no matter how good the technology (witness FW800 in its day; it was vastly superior to USB2.x, but it got little support by comparison because it wasn't needed by most people and devices supporting it cost $100-200 more than the comparable USB2.0 or E-Sata versions due to the need for an expensive on-board controller.
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,539
406
Middle Earth
That Magnus guy's a legend. What's he up to nowadays? Searching the African jungle for Thunderbolt peripherals I suppose LOL.

Thunderbolt won't guy the route of FW for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Intel's on-board and that means they "will" find a way to get it on the motherboard and funnel everything through it.

Intel's play on this for $$$ is likely going to be monopolizing the chipset for the near future and then licensing TB technology once it gets hot and heavy.
 

Prodo123

macrumors 68020
Nov 18, 2010
2,326
10
LOL, what a failure thunderbolt is becoming. All this hype and time.... where are devices for consumers?

Have any of you;

- seen anyone having a thunderbolt device?
- seen a thunderbolt device on a store shelf?

-Yes.
-Yes.
 

wiz329

macrumors 6502a
Apr 19, 2010
509
96
I bought a Seagate GoFlex Thunderbolt adapter # STAE121 and an OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SATA III SSD and a Thunderbolt cable for $263. I use it as my boot drive and the performance of my iMac has increased tremendously.

Image

Is that due to TB or due to the SSD though? In my experience, SATA II (let alone SATA III) provides plenty of bandwidth for all the needs that I have. The only reason at this point you'd really need the 500 MB/s sequentials is if you do a lot of professional work with large video files. My SATA II OWC Mercury Extreme Pro is plenty fast for me, and that's over 3Gb/s SATA.

Bottom line: is the external TB connection really necessary (at least at this point)?
 

Craigy

macrumors 6502
Jan 14, 2003
403
48
New Zealand
I run thunderbolt drives for virtual instrument libraries on my MPB - made a massive difference to the speed that I work. Not cheap - but I think it makes me around 20-30% more time efficient and the work I do. Small price to pay for that.

Sure, for backups' and general stuff not much benefit over USB2, but for pro audio / video / aperture users etc it's a no brainer.
 

James Howlett

macrumors member
Apr 19, 2008
71
0
Abbotsford
LOL, what a failure thunderbolt is becoming. All this hype and time.... where are devices for consumers?

Have any of you;

- seen anyone having a thunderbolt device?
- seen a thunderbolt device on a store shelf?

I sell a few thunderbolt devices in the store I work at actually. About a grand for a 6TB Raid setup and $600 for a 2TB External but they do exist. I've even sold them.
 

ramuman

macrumors regular
Mar 7, 2005
222
0
Plenty? Really? What number is that? You could compile a short list of all the items and post it as a quick comment. There arent plenty. Theres plenty relative the number of fingers you have on your hands, which would make counting them with your fingers difficult, but relative to USB 3.0 the number is pathetic.

I'm all for Thunderbolt. I'm all for faster transfer speeds. I'm all for more options for a single connection to serve all my needs.

But I'm not at all for everyone wanting that and getting screwed by the lack of devices and the ridiculous price tags after more than a year of it being around.

Once USB 3.0 comes to MacBooks and other Macs, thunderbolt is going to be officially DEAD and will end up JUST like Firewire. Not something I'd like to see, but thats the reality of this awful execution of Thunderbolt.

I honestly don't feel screwed by having it. My current MBA with TB cost exactly the same as my previous MBA without TB. If it picks up, then we'll benefit and if it doesn't, then the market didn't find a place for it.

At least Intel and Apple tried to push technology forward.
 

daxomni

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2009
457
6
Thunderbolt won't guy the route of FW for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Intel's on-board and that means they "will" find a way to get it on the motherboard and funnel everything through it.
If that's all that ThunderBolt has going for it then it may do even worse than FireWire in the end. Look at what happened to Rambus. Intel had a hell of a lot more financial incentive for establishing Rambus as a standard than they do for pushing ThunderBlunder.
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,539
406
Middle Earth
If that's all that ThunderBolt has going for it then it may do even worse than FireWire in the end. Look at what happened to Rambus. Intel had a hell of a lot more financial incentive for establishing Rambus as a standard than they do for pushing ThunderBlunder.

Yes and Rambus was good but expensive technology that was usurped by cheaper DDRx that performed well enough.

There is not plucky upstart that provided TB speed and multi protocol support that is rising up in competition.
 

cult hero

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2005
1,181
1,028
If you're comparing USB and Thunderbolt as if they are direct competitors, you don't get it. The same goes for USB and Firewire.

Thunderbolt isn't a USB competitor. It never will be. It isn't designed to be. The fact that Intel wants it in the PCIe 3.0 specification tells you everything you need to know about Thunderbolt.

Let's take a look at wikus's rehash of MagnusVonMagnum's post:

As soon as Apple gets USB 3.0 with Ivy Bridge, it's game over for Thunderbolt except as a high-end device...

This is already true and this single statement illustrates just how little MagnusVonMagnum (and by proxy wikus) understands about what Thunderbolt is. It's specifically for "a high-end" device right now, period.

Things like Sonnet's Thunderbolt to ExpressCard adapter are exactly the kinds of applications Thunderbolt is for. It's effectively external PCIe and that means really cool stuff that USB 3.0 isn't going to be able to touch like:

http://www.tested.com/news/thunderbolt-equipped-macs-getting-external-graphics-card-dock/2695/

You don't plug your mouse directly into PCIe, do you?

Mind you, this stuff is all in its infant stages and the vast number of users will never touch it—right now anyway. For most people that port will be display out. All the complaining about what goes at the end of the chain and how confusing that is and the rest of the noise from MagnusVonMagnum is meaningless because the only people that are going to use Thunderbolt devices right now are people that have no problem dealing with that stuff. They're professionals and tech enthusiasts.

Personally, I'm waiting for a reasonably priced Thunderbolt hub—basically the Thunderbolt display minus the display—to act as a docking station. Since I plan on switching to a MacBook Air, this should be really useful. (Belkin's looks pretty cool, but for $300... that's about twice what I'd be willing to shell out.)
 

agenda893

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2004
141
157
Yawn.

I'll care about thunderbolt when they allow simple clusters to be made out of several macs. If I could bring my laptop home and plug it into a farm of 4 or 5 mac mini's I'd have no need for a mac pro.
 

Lesser Evets

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2006
3,527
1,294
Well, despite the bitchin' and trollin' in this thread, I am enthused about the future of computing. What is $50 today is $30 next year and $20 the year after and $10 etc etc etc. What seems impossibly expensive now will be affordable in 3 or 4 and everywhere for nothing in 8.

Faster is better. Bring it. 2015 will be incredible.
 

wonderspark

macrumors 68040
Feb 4, 2010
3,048
102
Oregon
These two cards *here* and *here* keep my Thunderbolt needs away for now. Hopefully by the time I need to replace my Mac, Thunderbolt will be ubiquitous, cheap and faster than anything out there.
 

Spectrum Abuser

macrumors 65816
Aug 27, 2011
1,377
48
That is COMPLETELY false. How long have the MacBook Pros been out with Thunderbolt? Its been OVER a year. Thunderbolt has been known about for even longer than that.

Ok so the Macbook Pros have had thunderbolt ports since FEBRUARY 24, 2011. I was off by seventeen days.
 

Navdakilla

macrumors 65816
Feb 3, 2011
1,100
13
Canada
LOL, what a failure thunderbolt is becoming. All this hype and time.... where are devices for consumers?

Have any of you;

- seen anyone having a thunderbolt device?
- seen a thunderbolt device on a store shelf?

no kidding..

for thunderbolt to be a hit, the prices need to rival usb 2.0/3.0 or else its not going to take off at all
 

11thIndian

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2007
166
0
Hamilton, Ontario
LOL, what a failure thunderbolt is becoming. All this hype and time.... where are devices for consumers?

Have any of you;

- seen anyone having a thunderbolt device?
- seen a thunderbolt device on a store shelf?

Ask if it's a failure amongst video professionals. The answer would be no.

People complain about how consumer oriented the company is becoming until they release a technology that's aimed at high end users- then it's a failure because it doesn't sell like iPhones.

Are you simple?
 

daxomni

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2009
457
6
Yes and Rambus was good but expensive technology that was usurped by cheaper DDRx that performed well enough.
Good? Lets not forget that Rambus intentionally joined standards creating organizations in bad faith in order to secretly patent the emerging technology and then sue anyone who tried to make use of it. Basically, a bunch of cronies that Intel joined after the jig was already up. The whole episode was a lesson in how perverted our patent system has become over the years.


What is $50 today is $30 next year and $20 the year after and $10 etc etc etc.
By that logic we should be seeing $30 ThunderBolt cables by now and moving toward $20.


If you're comparing USB and Thunderbolt as if they are direct competitors, you don't get it.
ThunderBolt would need a couple hundred more compatible devices to become a competitor to FireWire. USB is so far beyond these numbers that it's barely a spec on the horizon at this point.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.