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Intel Unveils 10th-Generation 'Comet Lake' Processors Appropriate for Updated iMacs
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DUDE! he / she did not say the process node is not important they said:
Are you gonna compared Intel 22nm to AMD 5nm? Gosh.
Thaaaaaat's not quite right. Pentium 4 was a huge success for multiple years. Eventually, though, they hit a brick wall with NetBurst, and luckily had the team that did Pentium M instead.
The late days of Pentium 4 and Pentium D weren't great, but its first ~4 years were.
Still, the processing node matters. Both IPC and overall performance require improving the processing node.
Yea I don't know what you're talking about. AMD is killing it right now. I'd like to see Apple mess with an AMD Processor.
Does AMD support ALL Intel Extension? Nope. Do they support All AVX and AVX2 instruction? Nope. Despite AMD or Intel claiming supporting AVX or AVX2, there are still very minor difference. If the code ( not compiled ) was written with Specific Intel only instruction in mind ( Hand written assembly ), it will need to doubt with. In the Hackintosh cases those are already done for you. And I did mention Adobe which is the one using Intel specific assembly for their products.
TB - They could, doesn't mean they will. Intel are under no obligation to certified TB to anyone. The ASRock example just shows why simply buying the controller chip from Intel alone is not enough. They had the controller on the MB shipping for nearly 6 months before it was certified. Until Certification is done by an independent third party, TB3 isn't quite open as everyone think it is. ( Which opens up another problem is who is paying for the certification? Hopefully TB4 will have an answer to that )
you just need to have played around with Intel parallel studio to quickly understand that the optimizations for Intel’s processors are really advanced
intel proprietary compiler is particularly good, especially in Algebra, it crushes the other compiler if you let him use the good instruction set
AMD does not support AVX-512 which only today is showing support in mainstream CPUs. The rest are supported.
I've been using non Intel CPUs since the 80486. Have sold many and until Apple went Intel didn't own one. I've never had software incompatibility issues. Even with Adobe, running Lightroom and Photoshop flawlessly on this Ryzen system. So I don't know what you are talking about. It even rocks running DaVinici Resolve.
There are some high end business apps that will not run on AMD (SAP HANA comes to mind) as they require a fairly rigid hardware compatibility and even in the Intel space are certified on a narrow range of server CPUs. But those are few and far between.
Apple could easily get certification. Or not. From my quick reading there's no requirement for certification for TB. It's optional.
Those Hackintoshes run with basic functions. Try to run sidecar on a AMD Hackintosh... not working, requires integrated graphics in the CPU or T2 chip to handle HVEC (it does not work on the GPU!). Try to install the latest version of VMWare or Parallels to run some VMs... it won't work on AMD CPUs. And please, don't tell me now to use VirtualBox... (that would show a complete lack of understanding the technology). There are many more such issues. Sure, a basic version macOS runs on AMD CPUs and maybe you won't miss any of the non working features, but saying it's easy is far from the truth.
It always works when you won't need the full feature set. That's why the "my Ryzen CPU costs $300 and is much better than the $5k MacPro!!!111!!" discussions are nonsense. How can I make the Ryzen work with over 1TB of RAM that the MacPro supports? Oops. Threadripper? Oops again. EPYC? Yay, but do it and let us know how far you get. Your chances are probably much better running Proxmox on AMD hardware and pass IOMMU groups in a proper way to utilize hardware properly.
Operative words are “right now”, which should not be misconstrued as “in perpetuity”, which is what some of the more ardent AMD supporters keep trying to convince people on these forums.
There is always give and take with regard to who has the CPU zeitgeist at the moment. Right now, it is AMD, but this is not guaranteed to last even through the end of the year. AMD has supply constraints on both CPU and GPU that will most likely continue, partially because of popularity, partially because of conservative management hesitant to overcommit to much working capital to production contracts.
If Intel has handled their 10nm issues, Tiger Lake, Rocket Lake and Alder Lake may begin giving AMD fits. Ditto with the Xe iGPUs versus RADEON and VEGA iGPUs.
I am as down on Intel as anyone, but they will find a way to buy and/or innovate their way out of this morass...eventually.
It'll be interesting to watch.
I doubt Xe will be competing with dedicated AMD Navi any time soon. But it just might be enough to bring back a 16-inch non-dGPU option.
I like people who ask question, they question the thing they read. That is good. You learn something from it.
To answer your question, Lots of Reasons. Whether they are *good* reason depends on your perspective.
1. You dont break up relationship with your *partner* / supplier or whatever you want to use to describe Intel just because they have a few hiccups. Remember these relationship building in business takes time. It would be a lot easier to understand this if you have some business experience in life. So if you are young this may be a little hard to comprehend right now.
2. We dont actually know if AMD is cheaper for Apple. Intel could be giving lots of discount to Apple without us knowing it. And judging from AMD's quarterly report, it seems AMD is determined not to play the old AMD game again where AMD's perception equals cheaper / good value, they want price and margin. They are the leading edge and they wants the world to knows that. ( Whether you agree with them or not is entirely different matter ) i.e AMD wont lower price just to win Apple over.
3. There are quite lot of code / optimisation written specifically with Intel in mind. You cant even run certain software ( *cough* Adobe ) without first patching them. But this problem so far seems to be mute because the hackintosh communities seems to have no problem patching, or translating those instructions. But for Apple, these requires a long process of work making sure everything is working as intended. So the switching cost to AMD, despite both being x86, is not entirely free.
4. Thunderbolt - Apple is too invested into Thunderbolt. Leaving the Intel platform isn't as simple as puling the plug even if they wanted to. The only thunderbolt host controller currently sold on market are all by Intel. And you will need your platform or part of the platform to be certified by Intel. So while the *specification* of Thunderbolt 3 is now open, the certification is still not. But Intel is working towards it, I guess it is one way of delaying Apple's switching to whatever they want, or Intel simply has too much to worried about and didn't get enough attention to TB yet. And before you ask, we dont know enough about the situation on USB4 and TB. As I have stated before, TB is not a mandatory part of USB4.
5. ARM - Why waste energy and effort switching over to AMD when Apple intends to switch to ARM on Mac. Assuming this is true, which we wont know because we have been saying the same thing for nearly a decade now. ( I think it started in 2011 ). I still believe the cost of switching to ARM is not worth the effort as long as Intel could provide enough incentives.
6. And it has only been a few months since the dust settled on Apple buying the Intel Modem. You dont want ANYTHING to be in the way of that, it is one of the biggest component of iPhone, which representing ˜50% of Apple'e revenue. Everything else can wait, including Mac. Once they have all the Intel Modem sorted, ( it is still fabbed by Intel ), things will hopefully change. ( That is why the 2019 , 2020 ARM Mac rumours never make any sense, why would you cut tie with a company when one of your component are being held hostage, especially that was in the mist of Qualcomm legal battle )
These are the few I could come up with on top of my head, and possibly many more reasons.
Thunderbolt is royalty free as of May 2019 and no longer tied to Intel. Do some research. Apple has already written those code optimizations to leverage Zen, in-house.
ARM has nothing on AMD and never will.
Zen 3 arrives this October. It is a massive jump over Zen 2. RDNA 2.0 is a 50% jump over Navi RDNA 1.0.
If Apple released a Xe-based 16” model at $1999, people on these forums would eat it up. I still have my 2015 15” base model that I got on sale from Best Buy at $1749. It does have a few quirks, but is the best of the Retina models. Battery life is still pretty fantastic. Power is very adequate and I have TB2. Still like the size of the 2016-2019 models better, especially thickness, but the butterfly keyboard is just not my cup of tea for extended periods of time. Looking forward to the 16” at some point.
Until May 2019 Thunderbolt was tied solely to Intel processors. It's Royalty fees included the requirement of installing their TB Controller on-board which itself would add a good $100 to the board or AMD not wanting to add costs to their CPU designs chose not to pass that on to the Consumer as TB is tied directly into PCI-E bus. Now that those royalties are gone and Alpine Ridge controller has opened up its specifications AMD can incorporate TB3 into Zen 3 or future Zen Processors.
With AMD's upcoming Infinity Fabric Architecture:
How they choose to interoperate with TB 3/USB 4 has yet to be disclosed on AMD's part.
Zen 3 will have the first generation Infinity Fabric Architecture [4/8-way GPU connectivity]
Then there is the changes in Packaging that TB 3 will have to be considered in with AMD's upcoming X3D packaging.
Zen 2 introduced Chiplets.
Zen 4 introduces the X3D Packaging as the design is not yet finalized, but will be later this Fall. Zen 3 arrives this Fall.
Those patented ideas are what keeps AMD's future CPU designs further ahead of Intel. How AMD incorporates the likes of Thunderbolt into the controller for Zen 4, if it isn't already within Zen 3 yet known, is all that remains for Apple to switch.
FCP X/LP X both rely heavily on the low latency capabilities of Thunderbolt that ties directly into PCI-E bus.
USB doesn't tie directly into it.
RDNA 2.0 and Big Navi: AMD's RDNA 2 gets A Codename: "Navi 2X" and comes with 50% Perf-Per-Watt improvement over Navi.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1559...-comes-this-year-with-50-improved-perfperwatt
CDNA 1.0: AMD splits RDNA into two separate lines: Graphics and Compute
Apple has a lot on its plate being a custom ASIC partner of AMD's allowing them early access to test all these new directions by AMD.
RDNA 2.0 is being incorporated this Fall for GPUs and Zen 3 APUs. CDNA this Fall for Machine Learning, etc., in data centers.
Apple has the option with the next Mac Pro [besides Zen 3 or waiting for Zen 4 next year] to move to AMD with either continued Custom TB 3 on-board GPGPUs by AMD with RDNA 2.0 and CNDA 1.0 based cards as BTO options thus making the RX 580/Radeon Pros old and the WX5700X the baseline card with these much beefier products their high end options.
Apple Zen 3 APUs would be a no-brainer, especially if AMD has included Thunderbolt inside their controller. Nobody knows yet.
If that's the case that Zen 3 CPUs/APUs have TB 3 inside their controllers then bye bye Intel.
Until May 2019 Thunderbolt was tied solely to Intel processors. It's Royalty fees included the requirement of installing their TB Controller on-board which itself would add a good $100 to the board or AMD not wanting to add costs to their CPU designs chose not to pass that on to the Consumer as TB is tied directly into PCI-E bus. Now that those royalties are gone and Alpine Ridge controller has opened up its specifications AMD can incorporate TB3 into Zen 3 or future Zen Processors.
With AMD's upcoming Infinity Fabric Architecture:
How they choose to interoperate with TB 3/USB 4 has yet to be disclosed on AMD's part.
Zen 3 will have the first generation Infinity Fabric Architecture [4/8-way GPU connectivity]
Then there is the changes in Packaging that TB 3 will have to be considered in with AMD's upcoming X3D packaging.
Zen 2 introduced Chiplets.
Zen 4 introduces the X3D Packaging as the design is not yet finalized, but will be later this Fall. Zen 3 arrives this Fall.
Those patented ideas are what keeps AMD's future CPU designs further ahead of Intel. How AMD incorporates the likes of Thunderbolt into the controller for Zen 4, if it isn't already within Zen 3 yet known, is all that remains for Apple to switch.
FCP X/LP X both rely heavily on the low latency capabilities of Thunderbolt that ties directly into PCI-E bus.
USB doesn't tie directly into it.
RDNA 2.0 and Big Navi: AMD's RDNA 2 gets A Codename: "Navi 2X" and comes with 50% Perf-Per-Watt improvement over Navi.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1559...-comes-this-year-with-50-improved-perfperwatt
CDNA 1.0: AMD splits RDNA into two separate lines: Graphics and Compute
Apple has a lot on its plate being a custom ASIC partner of AMD's allowing them early access to test all these new directions by AMD.
RDNA 2.0 is being incorporated this Fall for GPUs and Zen 3 APUs. CDNA this Fall for Machine Learning, etc., in data centers.
Apple has the option with the next Mac Pro [besides Zen 3 or waiting for Zen 4 next year] to move to AMD with either continued Custom TB 3 on-board GPGPUs by AMD with RDNA 2.0 and CNDA 1.0 based cards as BTO options thus making the RX 580/Radeon Pros old and the WX5700X the baseline card with these much beefier products their high end options.
Apple Zen 3 APUs would be a no-brainer, especially if AMD has included Thunderbolt inside their controller. Nobody knows yet.
If that's the case that Zen 3 CPUs/APUs have TB 3 inside their controllers then bye bye Intel.
Apple is never going to move to AMD CPUs. The only move Apple is willing to make at this point away from Intel is going to be to in-house CPUs. Otherwise, Apple will simply stay on Intel.
Then you're far too new to PC's to know about the AMD Athlon cpu. surf the internet between that and Intel's cpu's at the time and respect to gaming. Then look after 2yrs ... AMD was not doing anything decent for gaming until about 4yrs ago, prior to that ... it was a few handful that preferred it but they did not have elite games. What I mean is things happen in cycles.
prior to OSX ... Windows ruled the hearts and minds of the end user consumer. Now it seems to be happening again, yet at a slower pace. Don't worry that Windows X/2020 will give macOS a real boost of market share.
Sure, anybody can get a license. Intel even has (or had) a license from their purchase of Infineon.
Apple won’t be using AMD ARM chips, though; they’ll be making their own based on AXX series processors. The question is whether they’ll license out their x86 core for an Apple SoC (kind of the reverse of what they’re doing for Sony and Microsoft).
I'm still using my 2011 iMac, though upgraded the internal hard drive to a couple of SSD's through the years and it still runs better than the first day I bought it thanks to those SSD's. I too am just waiting for that special configuration that will let me justify buying it!
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Ever since the rumours started about Apple releasing their own chips, and possibly the iMac moving towards them, this has been one reasons I continue to use what I have, well it does all continue to work! But when you have a 2011 i7 iMac, that tech upgrade itch just refuses to go away.....
Not to move the football, but I would feel better if there was at least one Core i5 model to go along with this i7, something over 2.0GHz, but that has been missing in these leaks. Otherwise, this i7 seems very plausible at 2.3GHz (consistent with lower clock speeds of 10nm, but higher, as if now at 10nm+), so I'm guessing we'll see this around late May, just before WWDC, so that it isn't a distraction for all the Arm information that will need to be disseminated.