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What I really can't figure out is 'why not wait till Penryn came out in larger quantities instead of forcefeeding the Air an old Merom chip'?
Why did Apple have such a rush with the thinnest laptop ever?
 
What I really can't figure out is 'why not wait till Penryn came out in larger quantities instead of forcefeeding the Air an old Merom chip'?
Why did Apple have such a rush with the thinnest laptop ever?

Intel said they had been working over a year on getting the merom to work in the Macbook air. If Apple came to them a year - year and 1/2 ago, the merom was the next likely processor to use at that time. Just think if intel started now to shrink the new Penryn card so that it would fit in the Air. SJ and company would be waiting until MW2009 to announce with shipping most likely later than that.

The reduction process always takes time. The timeline goes

desktop->mobile->ultraportable

I wonder though, does this mean that if the Air turns out to be a flop, intel will abandon the strategy of custom cpus for Apple (or anyone else)?
 
I got a treat last night in listening to Intel's Enterprise Director. He basically told us that all the stuff we are seeing from Intel right now dealing with Apple is nothing new, it's all current technology that Intel already had. Then he got really excited and told us that the stuff they have been working on from the ground up with Apple is what will blow people's minds. He had a sly grin for a moment that was a little bit like a kid in a candy shop kind of look.

Basically, I'm buying lots of stock right now.

Well that's good because my mind hasn't been blown for quite a while. It seems technology advances are moving painfully slowly. It's just small incremental changes. I had expected computers to be totally amazing by now. Hell, even the Amiga 500 I'm using to type this has SD flashdrives! Mac has only gotten them as optional now?? Wow, the 2008 Macbook Air has almost 2x the screen resolution of my 1987 Amiga. I thought more would happen over 20 years.
 
"...mobile Penryn due out in the second half of 2008"

Really???!!! So no updates on MBP's in about 6 months??? I've been waiting like a year for these guys to update them... Couldn't be any angrier...

So, is this for real?? Anyone who know something??

Thanx

If you are this angry over the release of a computer, you really need to chill and find a hobby (other than being on a computer).
 
I bet it's a Merom: 800MHz FSB, 4MB L2 cache..

it's natural to expect Penryn in there, because it's around the corner, has a smaller die and lower consumption / heat, but unfortunately we'll have to wait for a while for it..

now the question is: did Apple really push Intel into developing the shrunk package, or was it long planned by Intel, but aimed at the smaller Penryn die and the only think Apple did was to push Intel to fit Merom in that same package, which Intel didn't originally plan on doing and as Otellini sayed, didn't even believe to be feasible..

As for availability of Penryn - I believe 2H08 only applies to these shrunk package 'S' versions of mobile Penryn.. the regular ones in the traditional package are available soon.. I don't expect any significant changes to the MBP form factor before Montevina, which is May '08.. in the meanwhile, they will just switch the CPU for Penryn, without a great fanfare..
 
I'm sure he processor used is a Merom 2M part (released September last year). Glassman above refers to this.

It's an L7700 (17W TDP). No secret parts etc. No SSE4 support. That will come with Penryn/Montevina in May.
 
SJ and company would be waiting until MW2009 to announce with shipping most likely later than that.

... and then people would ask the exact same question about the next generation processor on the horizon. Apple need to use the tech thats available regardless of what's on the horizon... They are in the business to sell hardware. There are ALWAYS updates coming out soon, which is great!

C
 
The strange thing is Apple's MBA developer tech note implies the processor has SSE4. If that is true this isn't a Merom based part. However the document doesn't seem self consistent ("SSSE4" for example) so I reported this to Apple... lets see if they correct the document.

It's my understanding that many "core" based intel cpus have sse4 (clovertown, for example), but that penryn brings "enhanced" sse4 instructions (rumored to target osx speedups and video encoding). So the mac pro would have something akin to sse4 V 2.0
 
Wondering that was one reason I went for the SSD config. Should help some. Otherwise I guess it can double as a tortilla griddle.

The word from people on the floor at MacWorld is that these 1.6 standard config machines aren't running hot at all. There is a lot of conjecture going on that isn't supported on the ground in San Francisco.
 
...It seems technology advances are moving painfully slowly. It's just small incremental changes. I had expected computers to be totally amazing by now. Hell, even the Amiga 500 I'm using to type this has SD flashdrives! Mac has only gotten them as optional now?? Wow, the 2008 Macbook Air has almost 2x the screen resolution of my 1987 Amiga. I thought more would happen over 20 years.

I still have my Amiga 2000 that I had set up with all sorts of cool stuff. It seemed cool until I realized that I had spent over $10,000 (1994 dollars) on all of the hardware and software. Lets see, 24bit VGA style graphics card? That was over $600. GVP 68040 CPU card? Almost $2000.

I would ask that you get your ocular system a check-up, because I don't think you're seeing all the cool and amazing things the rest of the world is seeing.

Oh, and by-the-way, the MBA and my MacBook have four times the pixels as the A500's ECS 640x400 (non-square pixels) also the high res format was limited to 4-bit color or 16 colors on screen. The Amiga's chipset, while amazing in its time, cannot do the realtime OpenGL 3D compositing that the Mac do for even the simplest finder window. A little chip in a laptop computer can do 3D realtime transformations of pictures and moving video. The technology to do this was introduced and sold in the early 1980's as a device called the Ampex ADO (Ampex Digital Optics) These boxes took up the space of a small refrigerator, consumed thousands of watts and cost $100,000. Each box could handle exactly ONE channel of SD video. As you gang-up more channels, you can see how the costs can go up. They too were amazing for their time.
 
I would ask that you get your ocular system a check-up, because I don't think you're seeing all the cool and amazing things the rest of the world is seeing.

I'll make an appointment to see my eye doctor next week. ("Dr. Smith, can you make the things I see look amazing to me?") ;)

Oh, and by-the-way, the MBA and my MacBook have four times the pixels as the A500's ECS 640x400 (non-square pixels) also the high res format was limited to 4-bit color or 16 colors on screen.

True. I was thinking 2x horizontal and 2x vertical is 2x. It seems I need a mathematical checkup too. Still, 4x display resolution is not a great advance in 20 years. (my A500 ECS is overscan 692x482 by the way)

The Amiga's chipset, while amazing in its time, cannot do the realtime OpenGL 3D compositing that the Mac do for even the simplest finder window. A little chip in a laptop computer can do 3D realtime transformations of pictures and moving video. The technology to do this was introduced and sold in the early 1980's as a device called the Ampex ADO (Ampex Digital Optics) These boxes took up the space of a small refrigerator, consumed thousands of watts and cost $100,000. Each box could handle exactly ONE channel of SD video. As you gang-up more channels, you can see how the costs can go up. They too were amazing for their time.

Yes, but if the technology was introduced in the early 1980's, then it's not really something new - over the last 25 years it's just gradually gotten cheaper and smaller. (It's hard to blow somebody's mind if it takes 25 years to do it ;))

I still have my Amiga 2000 that I had set up with all sorts of cool stuff. It seemed cool until I realized that I had spent over $10,000 (1994 dollars) on all of the hardware and software. Lets see, 24bit VGA style graphics card? That was over $600. GVP 68040 CPU card? Almost $2000.

My 1987 Amiga 500 cost me $799 CAD + $1100 for extras over the years (24-bit, display, audio/video digitizers, SD flash, accelerator, RAM, software). For around the same price I can get a Mac which will do basically the same things (internet/email, documents, images, music, games, productivty, development). The new Mac is faster, slightly higher-res, and has 3D realtime effects & video. These things are nice, but not really a giant leap in technology over 20 years. I want something to come out that "blows my mind", not something that makes me shrug and go "meh."

If the new Macbook Air had 1920x1200 OLED display (13"), SSD drive as standard, 4Gb RAM, 4-core 3Ghz CPU that stays cool, graphics chip at least 50% faster than previous notebook graphics, 12-hour battery, and cost $1499 - then it would have blown me away. With technology moving so slowly, I don't expect to see that until at least 2012.
 
check it!

1. Macbook Air sells to all the people with the surplus cash over the next 2-3 months.

2. Macbook Pros are fitted with Penryn 45nm at the current price in Mayish and the Macbook air drops roughly 200 bucks.

3. Penryn eventually dropped into MBair in second half of 2008
 
I'm sure he processor used is a Merom 2M part (released September last year). Glassman above refers to this.

It's an L7700 (17W TDP). No secret parts etc. No SSE4 support. That will come with Penryn/Montevina in May.

Anandtech came out with another report that said that the CPU is 20W TDP chip. It isn't LV or ULV.
 
I'll make an appointment to see my eye doctor next week. ("Dr. Smith, can you make the things I see look amazing to me?") ;)

I didn't include the thousands of dollars spent on software on that system, nor the incredible cost of RAM or hard drives. How about TV-Paint? I spent a ton for that and probably used it for about a year before I got into Photoshop. Neat program, but free and shareware programs can do what it did. Opalvision? Spent around $200 for it and never really found a use for it. It was kind of neat though. TurboSilver? Imagine 3D? Sculpt3D? Lightwave?

A lot of amazing things got started on the Amiga, some of that software still exists today on other platforms. (Cinema4D, Lightwave, Real3D)

The things I do today would be impossible to do on the Amiga, but the Amiga made it possible for personal computers to do the things I do today.
 
What I really can't figure out is 'why not wait till Penryn came out in larger quantities instead of forcefeeding the Air an old Merom chip'?
Why did Apple have such a rush with the thinnest laptop ever?

Because the whole thin thing train has almost left the station.

Because the thinnovation is a (tasty!) red herring.

Because of some agreement with Intel to which we are not privy.

No one waits for anything now. Only time itself keeps us all from chaos.

----
and, "an old Merom chip" sounds imo and to anyone who skipped all the MacBook gens so far a whole lot like "one of those old 2008 cars"
 
Because the whole thin thing train has almost left the station.

Because the thinnovation is a (tasty!) red herring.

Because of some agreement with Intel to which we are not privy.

No one waits for anything now. Only time itself keeps us all from chaos.

----
and, "an old Merom chip" sounds imo and to anyone who skipped all the MacBook gens so far a whole lot like "one of those old 2008 cars"

Most likely Apple will update the MBA with the SFF Penryn as soon as Intel brings out SFF Montevina. MBA will probably be the last Apple notebook to go Penryn.
 
Most likely Apple will update the MBA with the SFF Penryn as soon as Intel brings out SFF Montevina. MBA will probably be the last Apple notebook to go Penryn.

Agreed, they will want to use the amount of the Merom they had custom made first and also they don't want to update the MBA for at least another 5 months.
 
Well that's good because my mind hasn't been blown for quite a while. It seems technology advances are moving painfully slowly. It's just small incremental changes. I had expected computers to be totally amazing by now. Hell, even the Amiga 500 I'm using to type this has SD flashdrives! Mac has only gotten them as optional now?? Wow, the 2008 Macbook Air has almost 2x the screen resolution of my 1987 Amiga. I thought more would happen over 20 years.

you nailed it :)
 
Most likely Apple will update the MBA with the SFF Penryn as soon as Intel brings out SFF Montevina. MBA will probably be the last Apple notebook to go Penryn.

Some care needs to be taken with chip names and platform names.

According to the Anandtech article, the MBA is essentially a SFF Montevina with a custom Merom chip instead of a Penryn. The current platform for Merom and early Penryns is the Santa Rosa platform which will change in around May time to Montevina.
 
The MacBook Air is not Montevina

Some care needs to be taken with chip names and platform names.

According to the Anandtech article, the MBA is essentially a SFF Montevina with a custom Merom chip instead of a Penryn. The current platform for Merom and early Penryns is the Santa Rosa platform which will change in around May time to Montevina.

There's nothing from the Montevina platform in the MacBook Cube Air, though.

It's a Santa Rosa, stuck into a smaller package. And it's a Merom Santa Rosa, not the Penryn update.
 
There's nothing from the Montevina platform in the MacBook Cube Air, though.

It's a Santa Rosa, stuck into a smaller package. And it's a Merom Santa Rosa, not the Penryn update.

Read that Anandtech article, the SFF packaging is brought forward from the Montevina platform. I should have been clearer that it's the SFF aspect of this that's brought forward.

The CPU is a custom Merom - not Penryn, as I said above.
 
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