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StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,054
663
Inside my head.
Computers from the 80's could too, writing isn't something that advanced.

Typing a bunch of letters doesn't change anything.

Yes, indeed, and they were computers, just like the iPad is a computer. All arguments that the iPad isn't really a computer are veriations of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
 

goobot

macrumors 604
Jun 26, 2009
6,512
4,435
long island NY
Yes, indeed, and they were computers, just like the iPad is a computer. All arguments that the iPad isn't really a computer are veriations of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Comparing computers from 30 years ago to today? iPods from 10 years ago blew them out of the water power wise, saying a tablet is a computer because of what a computer could do 30 years ago is beyond a joke. And as said before a typewriter could do the same. What is even funnier is that a 30 year old computer could still create more content than an iPad.
 

StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,054
663
Inside my head.
Comparing computers from 30 years ago to today? iPods from 10 years ago blew them out of the water power wise, saying a tablet is a computer because of what a computer could do 30 years ago is beyond a joke. And as said before a typewriter could do the same. What is even funnier is that a 30 year old computer could still create more content than an iPad.

All veriations of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
 

StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,054
663
Inside my head.
LOL, enjoy your content creation device that can only create letters. What a great excuse. Mean while you can't even print it without the assistance of a computer. :rolleyes:

That was just one example if creating content with an iPad. I've also viewed videos shot and edited with iPads, that's media creation. I've seen magazine covers created by artists using iPads. I could go on, this is all content creation, not just media consumption,

I print from my iPad, and iPhone directly to a network connected printer without the intervention of another computer.

Do you have an argument against the iPad being a computer that's not a veriation of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
 

goobot

macrumors 604
Jun 26, 2009
6,512
4,435
long island NY
That was just one example if creating content with an iPad. I've also viewed videos shot and edited with iPads, that's media creation. I've seen magazine covers created by artists using iPads. I could go on, this is all content creation, not just media consumption,

I print from my iPad, and iPhone directly to a network connected printer without the intervention of another computer.

Do you have an argument against the iPad being a computer that's not a veriation of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

For starters the network is ran by a computer so still no.

Yes taking photos is "creation" But comparing that to what computers can and have done for a long time is a little ridiculous. It's like comparing a skate board to a sports car.
 

StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,054
663
Inside my head.
For starters the network is ran by a computer so still no.

Yes taking photos is "creation" But comparing that to what computers can and have done for a long time is a little ridiculous. It's like comparing a skate board to a sports car.

My iMac communicates with the printer in exactly the same way, are you saying it's not a computer? You also seem to be saying that every PC made before what, 1990, wasn't really a computer?

You are still using a variation of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Nothing is proven by fallacious arguments. Do you have any argument that's not based on the No True Scotsman fallacy?
 

iSayuSay

macrumors 68040
Feb 6, 2011
3,792
906
That was just one example if creating content with an iPad. I've also viewed videos shot and edited with iPads, that's media creation. I've seen magazine covers created by artists using iPads. I could go on, this is all content creation, not just media consumption,

I print from my iPad, and iPhone directly to a network connected printer without the intervention of another computer.

Do you have an argument against the iPad being a computer that's not a veriation of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

To be fair though, iPad is capable of doing content creation to some extent. But just as we know Apple, iOS devices are limited compared to other smartphones or tablets capable of nowadays.

  • There is no native USB host on iPad a la USB OTG or MHL for video output.
  • There is no mouse support for iPad. Typing on a bluetooth keyboard and tapping on the touch interface is very, very tiring.
  • There is no way I could manage my files on iPad. All contents can only come from AppStore or iTunes. If you want to insert your own content, you'll need a computer.

Yes iPad and iOS has a great device with great potential. But the way I see things, Apple deliberately cripples it.
 

goobot

macrumors 604
Jun 26, 2009
6,512
4,435
long island NY
My iMac communicates with the printer in exactly the same way, are you saying it's not a computer? You also seem to be saying that every PC made before what, 1990, wasn't really a computer?

You are still using a variation of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Nothing is proven by fallacious arguments. Do you have any argument that's not based on the No True Scotsman fallacy?

True Scotsman fallacy is a stupid idea in general because it applies to everything since there is an exception to every rule. It's not a valid argument.
 

StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,054
663
Inside my head.
To be fair though, iPad is capable of doing content creation to some extent. But just as we know Apple, iOS devices are limited compared to other smartphones or tablets can nowadays.

  • There is no native USB host on iPad a la USB OTG or MHL for video output.
  • There is no mouse support for iPad. Typing on a bluetooth keyboard and tapping on the touch interface is very, very tiring.
  • There is no way I could manage my files on iPad. All contents can only come from AppStore or iTunes. If you want to insert your own content, you'll need a computer.

Yes iPad and iOS has a great device with great potential. But the way I see things, Apple deliberately cripples it.

It may be a, somewhat, crippled computer, but it is still a computer. There is nothing in your list that a device is required to have to be a computer.

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True Scotsman fallacy is a stupid idea in general because it applies to everything since there is an exception to every rule. It's not a valid argument.

That is exactly the point, exceptions.
 

goobot

macrumors 604
Jun 26, 2009
6,512
4,435
long island NY
It may be a, somewhat, crippled computer, but it is still a computer. There is nothing in your list that a device is required to have to be a computer.

----------



That is exactly the point, exceptions.

By that logic everything is a computer that can created very limited things, including my pencil.
 

StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,054
663
Inside my head.
By that logic everything is a computer that can created very limited things, including my pencil.

Unless you can come up with a definition for a computer that would exclude the iPad that would not exclude any other device that has already been recognized as a computer. Let's say going back at least to the on board computer that landed out astronauts on the moon.

Got to drive home now, no more responses for at least an hour.
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
What will really happen:
Apple will switch to their own chip for the Mac's which will be compatible with what is used in the iOS machines and it will be able to offer low level just-in-time cross compilation of javascript, java, PowerPC and 68K to give us legacy support. This will unify Apple's programming development and their hardware development.

The new processor, called the SJ1, will be available in five flavors:

1. Ultra low power for sub-portable devices like watches, eye glasses, hearing aids, etc in one core versions.

2. Low power devices for hand held devices and tablets which are currently the iOS category in one to four core versions.

3. Medium power (10W to 30W variable power) for notebook computers in one to eight core versions.

4. High power screaming be-geezy eight to 64 core chip for the iMac, MacPro and new server Sow which can hold eight of the 64 core chips at 2.8GHz each and still doesn't generate enough heat to keep your house warm in the winter here in Vermont.

I sort of felt this way when playing with CPU settings on my old rooted Evo 4G, pretending I knew what I was doing and wasn't periodically breaking stuff...

Good times...

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The problem is, we used to be able to upgrade RAM and HDD ourself with standard parts at market prices. Now that the RAM is soldered and SSDs are proprietary, we are screwed. :(

The SSDs are not proprietary. Some of the connectors may have been obscure, but they were not proprietary.

At least not any more than any other widely adopted connector is now.

----------

Honestly if the iPad is becoming your main computer then you never needed a MacBook Pro to begin with. An i7 is overkill for you. You should be running an 11" MacBook Air then. It doesn't get hot like a Pro. The battery life is better and the screen is still bigger than an iPad.


I wonder if Apple would be further ahead by going back to discrete GPU's in these models again as a way of making up for the lack of processing power. Anyone who uses video or design software knows that a system with a discrete GPU will always trump an integrated chip.

While I agree with your conclusion, I must append to your comment.

The MBA might have a bigger screen, but the iPad actually feels less cramped in comparison as the interface is designed with small screens in mind.
 
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Max(IT)

Suspended
Dec 8, 2009
8,551
1,662
Italy
Actually I'm still happy with my late 11 MBP 15" (with an SSD and 8 Gb), but I'm looking for a possible upgrade by the end of the year/1Q 2015, so I'm quite interested ....
Not sure if my target will be a new retina MBA or a new 15 rMBP.
 

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,567
Where's my 17" MBP?

Well I hate to break it to you but YOU don't matter. What matters is a group of people you can sell something to. The group craving a 17" machine is and has always been small. Small group = small profit = not interesting!

So instead of asking where YOUR 17" is, ask yourself where Apple's need for one is. Marketing 101!
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
Not really sure the main point of articles like this...

If people need a new computer, there are many acceptable products on the market right now. All are fine products. If people look into .1 GHz into making their purchasing decision, I question their actual need for a new computer.

Upgrades can come with more than just the processor, you know.

----------

Well I hate to break it to you but YOU don't matter. What matters is a group of people you can sell something to. The group craving a 17" machine is and has always been small. Small group = small profit = not interesting!

So instead of asking where YOUR 17" is, ask yourself where Apple's need for one is. Marketing 101!

You mad?
 

yegon

macrumors 68040
Oct 20, 2007
3,417
1,988
+1 I've been watching house of cards...and honestly, the experience is so much better on my iPad than my macbook pro. despite the macbook pro having a quad core i7 vs. the A6x chip on the ipad
the macbook pro gets hot on my lap, runs out of battery much quicker and takes more steps to do what i want it to do.

the iPad is quickly becoming my main computer.

How old is your mbp? My old 09 mpb acted like this.

My late 2013 15" rmbp otoh, is amazing, ice cool, battery lasts 8hrs+, 10+ if I'm just browsing/light usage, dropping to about 6 (which is still pretty good) when I'm doing something grindy.

I like my iPad (nay, I LOVE it) for on the go purposes and linear reading, but it's an absolute joke for anything demanding, positively Fisher Price. Re: more steps to do what you want to do, wow, I have the exact opposite experience. For anything beyond simple consumption the iPad is a constant exercise in apps/tabs refreshing, and a tonne of compromise. In contrast, my mbp is seamless, fast and for all the talk about touch screens, you simply cannot beat a great keyboard/trackpad combo for fast, precise input. Yes, you can do productivity to a degree on an iPad in a pinch, but it's a ghastly experience in comparison to a half decent laptop.
 

Macman45

macrumors G5
Jul 29, 2011
13,197
135
Somewhere Back In The Long Ago
If Apple does another CPU chip change to their own ARM, I'm going to be pissed. :mad:

But then again, so we really need faster chips at this point for the average Facebook, email, & Spotify consumer? Nope. We need more optimized software.

I doubt that...They will probably start to discount current models and wait for Broadwell...the manufacturing process has suffered major setbacks as we know, but I can't see Apple using a non Intel platform.
 

Serban

Suspended
Jan 8, 2013
5,159
928
The Macs updates anyway are in October, so until then its time, right??
 
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Mike MA

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2012
2,089
1,811
Germany
If Apple does another CPU chip change to their own ARM, I'm going to be pissed. :mad:

But then again, so we really need faster chips at this point for the average Facebook, email, & Spotify consumer? Nope. We need more optimized software.

Basically I second that. But, from my point of view Mac software and OS is performance driven, Mavericks was even a step further. So, more processing speed is always welcome, but it's not an issue currently.

Pro applications is a different story though.
 
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