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That's presumably why it plugs into the OS via a driver, so it can leverage the OS's "inside view" on what data is best cached, and what is not (eg: generally speaking you don't want to cache long sequential reads).

But then doesn't that become an Apple project? If so, we're still waiting for real SSD TRIM support from Apple. I wonder how long it will take them to get to this, which will apparently only serve a relatively small subset of their customer base who happen to have the expansion capabilities to take advantage of this feature.

Best guess: right after we get OS X BD drivers, an Adobe Flash OPTION (for those interested) on iOS devices and full 1080p playback in AppleTV.
 
Good job Intel, the biggest complaint about SSD was how slow they were. Oh wait, nobody complained about that, they complained about the damn price. How about we stop wasting R&D money on speed improvements and focus on making these things affordable?
 
I guess from what I'm reading, the new iMacs with the SSD/HDD combo from Apple are configuring things so the SSD contains OS X, the Applications folder, AND the home folders too? Or did they redirect the home directory to the HDD?

Curious, because after I added a new SSD as my boot drive in my Mac Pro, I found that one of the largest users of disk space was my home directory. (By default, all the iTunes media winds up in there as well as the iPhoto or Aperture photo libraries, and Steam puts all of its cache files for downloaded games in there too.)

I followed some advice to redirect my home folder to the HDD via advanced settings in the Preferences -- but was also told that Apple never officially sanctioned redirection of the Home folder(s), due to potential incompatibilities with various software apps.

Seems like they need to address/fix that and make it officially ok to do, with the rising popularity of SSD boot drives, which often only have 128GB or even 80GB of space.

All of this is correct unless it just changed in this new iMac. The home directory will come on the SSD. It is a big space hog and it involves the bulk of file writing as you use your computer. Moving it to the HDD seems to make great sense (and what I did over 10 months ago) which involved using the "Advanced Settings" option you described. There are potential incompatibilities using this option (I got that first hand from Apple Tech Support), but it has worked very well for me for nearly a year.
 
So you constantly change the same ~150gb portion of some 300gb+ file over and over?

No, I constantly read the same ~100 gigs out of a total 1TB+.

Or perhaps you have a huge database with some parts accessed constantly, and other parts not so often? You could have two databases, one on the SSD for fast/constant access, and another on a HDD for slower/infrequent access. Then you could be sure that the part of the database you need to access quickly is definitely on the SSD, and won't need to be re-read and re-cached.

Not a huge database, a huge collection of smaller files, but that pattern of access is about right. And splitting the files manually isn't practical. The files are accessed by the software, not by user selection, so it would be a nightmare to try and copy them manually, and in some cases the files are locked within larger files so it's impossible to split them.

Video editing is a good example. You may have a TB containing all footage, every take, but when you're editing you are going to pick selects so that some data will be read rarely if ever but the footage selected for the cut will get played over and over.

Good job Intel, the biggest complaint about SSD was how slow they were. Oh wait, nobody complained about that, they complained about the damn price. How about we stop wasting R&D money on speed improvements and focus on making these things affordable?

Read the article. The point of this product IS affordability, not speed.
 
The home folder might be thought of as a master, personal workspace. It's where lots of the data you use will be stored. For example, home has folders like "movies" for (imovie) movies and movie files, "music" for iTunes music files, garage band files etc., "documents" for all document files like Word or Pages docs, "pictures" for your photo collection in iPhoto, "library" for all of the supporting files that makes all of the unique elements in the above (and much more) work to your own particular tastes, etc.

The home folder has lots of directories that get regularly written to by the operating system and application files. This is especially true of directories within "library" where lots of "cache" files are used. For example, every website you browse in Safari will involve file downloads of images, etc as your browsing history builds out. The Safari cache is in "Library" as are lots of other files that regularly get written to and updated in even casual use of your computer.

That's why I chose a non-optimal option of just putting the whole "home" folder on the HDD while leaving "Applications" and similar (files that don't need to be written to very often) on the SSD. The optimal choice would have been to carefully document which directories get a lot of writes and which get few to none and putting the latter on the relatively abundant space available on the Apple SSD option. But, in the end, I just did it this way because it was 1) easy, 2) fit my objective (regular write files on the HDD, mostly read files on the SSD) and 3) resulted in bootup and the big (and small) application files opening quick from the SSD while little files like photos, music, etc all automatically land on the HDD. That setup has worked very well for nearly a year now, yielding SSD fast where I expected it without much worry about wearing out the SSD too quickly.


Aww you brought up a BIG question for me!

right now my largest files are my iTunes Folder. 47 GB. I was going to transfer the whole iTunes folder at once onto the iMac. But now I see that I need to differentiate the subsequent folders such as library, backups etc. and move those to the home folder on the HDD. How do I know which iTunes Folders go on the SDD vs the HDD? I only want the iTunes player on the SDD all the storage and libraries and backups etc. can go in the home folder on the HDD

Am I being ignorant thinking that the application is in the iTunes Folder and instead the application is in my programs folder separate? trying to mesh PC terminology with Mac sorry. what is the Mac equivalent to the Windows Programs Folder
 
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Is not it funny?

Is not it ironic how in this case Mac rumor (about Apple developing a technology for using small SSDs for caching) materialized... for PC users. Perhaps Apple did develop this technology and then offered it to Intel (for use in PCs) in exchange for Thunderbolt :D
 
People don't all work the way you do, some have files on the data drive that would benefit from the caching. Which is why I said it has the potential to provide big speed gains, not that it would necessarily be better for everyone. Also keep in mind that if you have an SSD boot drive, you may have a fair amount of data on that drive that you rarely or never use yet it's still eating up that expensive SSD space.

Yes, I understand that not everyone is represented by my own experience. And I have noticed that some of my "little files" are better stored on the SSD. For example, I have to access big clip art collections as part of my work. I can browse them much faster on the SSD than on the HDD. So even though they are small files, I chose to store those libraries on the SSD. Apple ships such a large drive for my relatively intense computing needs that I ended up with spare- though certainly "expensive"- space to burn.

So I can appreciate the concept- even the cache use concept, just offering some counterpoint to some views of how great it would be to take advantage of this, etc.

Along with allowing SSD cache bigger than 64 gigs, the one other thing I'd like to see is an option to have it cache reads only and not cache writes at all. For the work I do I need the speed on reads but faster writes would make little if any difference.

That's how I would expect it to work: no write caching only reads. I just wonder if it can be made smart enough to balance the SSD wear issue so it can really tell what should be in the cache vs. not. I play some iTunes songs many times a week. I would think it would cache them due to lots of activity, though I don't know I could see or hear a difference in load speed. In stuff like that, I'd rather it NOT cache them. Others might want such files cached for some reason. It seems like it would be a tricky algorithm to get right so that it works well for all people, if it NOT going to be something simpler like just caching based on recent use.

Wasn't there something mentioned about "instant on" in Lion which takes you right back to where you left off? If so... and if it really is instant... that would imply that either all of that instant on is heavily stored in some kind of persisting ram or maybe this kind of solution is the way it is implemented. And if so, it would probably be caching all of the recent files, not just select files.

But who really knows? Maybe this is the secret centerpiece benefit of Lion.
 
Perhaps Apple is catching up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risc_PC

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=284944&stc=1&d=1305141283

I still use my StrongARM RiscPC (see below), purchased in 1996, for domestic correspondence. Feels responsive, even today. Quite topically:

- it has a 200 MHz ARM processor
- the OS and basic apps boot direct from a (4Mb!!) RAM chip
- full boot takes <10s

15 years later and Apple are talking about ARM processor chips and booting the OS from an SSD!
 

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Perhaps Apple is catching up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risc_PC

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=284944&stc=1&d=1305141283

I still use my StrongARM RiscPC (see below), purchased in 1996, for domestic correspondence. Feels responsive, even today. Quite topically:

- it has a 200 MHz ARM processor
- the OS and basic apps boot direct from a (4Mb!!) RAM chip
- full boot takes <10s

15 years later and Apple are talking about ARM processor chips and booting the OS from an SSD!

A5-based Mac will be faster than your computer (but not by much ;))
 
Aww you brought up a BIG question for me!

right now my largest files are my iTunes Folder. 47 GB. I was going to transfer the whole iTunes folder at once onto the iMac. But now I see that I need to differentiate the subsequent folders such as library, backups etc. and move those to the home folder on the HDD. How do I know which iTunes Folders go on the SDD vs the HDD? I only want the iTunes player on the SDD all the storage and libraries and backups etc. can go in the home folder on the HDD

Am I being ignorant thinking that the application is in the iTunes Folder and instead the application is in my programs folder separate? trying to mesh PC terminology with Mac sorry. what is the Mac equivalent to the Windows Programs Folder

The simple answer is to do what I did: put the "home" folder on the HDD. The iTunes application itself will be stored on the SSD (in the Applications folder) and your big music library and other related files that are regularly written to a drive will be in the "music" folder within the "home" (parent) folder on the HDD.

If you put the home folder on the HDD and leave "the rest" on the SSD, I think you get the best approximation of what you want to do.

If you want to make things much more complicated, you could carefully analyze each folder on the Mac for a while taking note of which get lots of writes and which are mostly reads, then try to put the writes folders on the HDD while leaving the reads on the SSD. But, IMO, that will be take a pretty good amount of work. The Apple SSD is pretty big. I have a fairly large collections of big file apps (including one of the bigger Adobe suites) and I haven't even eaten up half of it yet).

Some people have kept their "home" folder on the SSD but then shifted select portions of it to the HDD. For example, they move their Pictures, Music, etc folders over to the HDD. If your primary concern is not wanting to store 47GB of music on the SSD, this could work for you as well (and is easy to do- just do searches for moving your itunes music library). But it is easiest to just put home on the HDD. All your data files (music, pictures, movies, documents, downloads, etc) will store in "Home" while your OS X boot files and applications will live on the SSD.
 
15 years later and Apple are talking about ARM processor chips and booting the OS from an SSD!

The late 1980's Amiga had a RAM drive which worked just like a hard drive but stored anything in a special section of RAM; it could even recover what was in RAM if the system crashed, was rebooted or restarted. It also did great multitasking in as little as 256K (yes, that's K) RAM and had a number of other efficiency features I wish would make their way into 2011+ computers. You could fit the whole OS into a single, small ROM chip; now you need Gigabytes of hard drive space and lots of ram to just store and run modern OSs. I do wish that "instant on" via some kind of OS X on a plug in chip would arrive (sleep & wake is only a so-so substitute).

When forced to work within tight hardware limitations (like iOS devices now), software engineers can find great solutions to efficiency challenges. When the sky becomes the limit on hardware & horsepower, it's not necessary to try as hard (besides it sells more hardware to try to keep up with even OS evolutions).
 
The simple answer is to do what I did: put the "home" folder on the HDD. The iTunes application itself will be stored on the SSD (in the Applications folder) and your big music library and other related files that are regularly written to a drive will be in the "music" folder within the "home" (parent) folder on the HDD.

If you put the home folder on the HDD and leave "the rest" on the SSD, I think you get the best approximation of what you want to do.

If you want to make things much more complicated, you could carefully analyze each folder on the Mac for a while taking note of which get lots of writes and which are mostly reads, then try to put the writes folders on the HDD while leaving the reads on the SSD. But, IMO, that will be take a pretty good amount of work. The Apple SSD is pretty big. I have a fairly large collections of big file apps (including one of the bigger Adobe suites) and I haven't even eaten up half of it yet).

Some people have kept their "home" folder on the SSD but then shifted select portions of it to the HDD. For example, they move their Pictures, Music, etc folders over to the HDD. If your primary concern is not wanting to store 47GB of music on the SSD, this could work for you as well (and is easy to do- just do searches for moving your itunes music library). But it is easiest to just put home on the HDD. All your data files (music, pictures, movies, documents, downloads, etc) will store in "Home" while your OS X boot files and applications will live on the SSD.

Thank you I absolutely want and need as you do!

Only one other question though for application software updates and patches would they be written to the SDD with the Application or the writable files in the HDD? if so does that affect the performance of the application program since the updates and patches are on the HDD vs the SSD with he application program? again sorry fpor my computer ignorance. This forum is educating me though.
 
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Perhaps Apple did develop this technology and then offered it to Intel (for use in PCs) in exchange for Thunderbolt :D

You need an "ultra-sarcasm" emoticon for that line - Apple fans might take you seriously.

Of course, things like Intel's Robson techonology (demoed in 2005) and Seagate's shipping Momentus XT point out that LBA caching was around long before Intel dreamed up Light Peak (and then emasculated it as Thunderbolt).
 
Thank you I absolutely want and need as you do!

Only one other question though for application software updates and patches would they be written to the SDD or the writable files in the HDD? if so does that affect the performance of the application program since the updates and patches are on the HDD vs the SSD with he application program?

They'll download as archived files to the downloads folder within your Home folder (on the HDD). However, when you actually install them, they'll automatically overwrite or update the file in the Applications folder on the SSD (the installer does this- you don't have to think about it). Again, it's a "just works" solution.

You rarely have to think about where to put things with this setup. It just "knows" to store applications and application updates in the Applications folder on the SSD and store data files the applications may create in your "home" folder on the HDD. For example, the next iTunes update will automatically overwrite the iTunes application in Applications on my SSD, while the music and other media files iTunes uses will continue to reside in folders within Home on my HDD. When I rip a new CD, I don't have to choose HDD vs. SSD to store the music. It will just go into the appropriate folder within Home on the HDD.

Easy.
 
Go to Apple system profile. Go to the SATA serial ATA tab: if it looks like this for the optical bay: you have sata 2

Intel 6 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel
Product: 6 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 1.5 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

If it looks like this is the optical bay you have sata 3:

Vendor: Intel
Product: 6 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 6 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

Darn... SATA II. Thank you for your help.
 
They'll download as archived files to the downloads folder within your Home folder (on the HDD). However, when you actually install them, they'll automatically overwrite or update the file in the Applications folder on the SSD (the installer does this- you don't have to think about it). Again, it's a "just works" solution. You rarely have to think about where to put things with this setup. It just "knows" to store applications and application updates in the Applications folder on the SSD and store data files the applications may create in your "home" folder on the HDD. Easy.

Thank you again! it just confirms my reasons for converting to iMac. It's user friendly. The user doesn't have to do a damn thing! Just covering bases...
 
You could fit the whole OS into a single, small ROM chip; now you need Gigabytes of hard drive space and lots of ram to just store and run modern OSs.

You are quite right. RiscOS 3.7 fitted onto a 4MB ROM (not RAM) chip, along with a text editor, fonts, printer drivers, sci calculator, and both bitmap and vector graphics programs!

I did go for an upgraded monster HDD for all my data though - 120 Mb!!
 
Thank you again! it just confirms my reasons for converting to iMac. It's user friendly. The user doesn't have to do a damn thing! Just covering bases...

I understand. Welcome to Mac. It is generally easier to do about everything compared to Windows (and that includes Windows 7). I use both almost every day and I much prefer doing whatever I can on the Mac side. I can appreciate both and see value in both. And I have the tech knowledge to feel pretty comfortable with all the nitty-gritty, techie details, but I can certainly appreciate "easy" vs. 19 steps with 12 variations depending on particular hardware configurations.

Apple has it's own issues, but on the whole, I find Mac the better way to go for now.
 
You are quite right. RiscOS 3.7 fitted onto a 4MB ROM (not RAM) chip, along with a text editor, fonts, printer drivers, sci calculator, and both bitmap and vector graphics programs!

I did go for an upgraded monster HDD for all my data though - 120 Mb!!

And that 120MB (yes MB) drive probably cost more than the Apple SSD that some here whine so much about. Personally, I remember paying over $700 for a 65MB hard drive, back when gas was 65 cents a gallon. It may not be long where filling up a big gas tank ONCE will cost more than 128GB of SSD storage.

It's all relative?;)
 
Hard drives have moving parts so sooner than later they will wear out. If you have a 120GB SLC SSD and you write 100GB a day, it will last for 120 000 days, which is equal to 329 years. Write 1TB a day and it will still last for 33 years. However, NANDs lose their charge after about 10 years so that will happen before you wear the NANDs out by writing.

All else being equal, an SSD will _vastly_ outlive a mechanical drive, outside of corner cases involving massive amounts of data being constantly written.

That's for SLC, drsmithy originally referred to the much more common MLC, which will only last 5,000 writes. Don't forget also, that you're assuming the drive will only write once to each block for every 120gb written. In the real world, that's far from the case. If you have a 100gb drive that's 70% full and you write 10gb per day, each block will be written to once every 3 days.

It's not as simple as it first seems though.

If the ATA controller writes just 1kb to a SSD, a whole cell (usually 128kb) has to be erased and rewritten. This means that for a 20gb drive, you could make as few as (20,000,000kb/128kb) 156,250 1kb writes to the drive to use one erase/write cycle on every cell. That's just 156 megabytes to use up one write/erase cycle for every block on the drive. You might think that no-one writes 1kb, skips 127kb, then writes 1kb again all over the drive. That's very true, but the wear levelling algorithm writes randomly when small pieces of data (less than 128kb) are sent to it, using any empty cell it feels like. In this extreme case, if you wrote 2gb per day in small 10kb chunks you'd need to erase 200,000 separate cells (2000000kb/10kb). This would use the same number of cycles as writing 25gb of data to the drive in large 128kb chunks. The drive has to erase and re-write all 128kb per cell each time 1kb in that cell is changed. In practise, the drive has a hefty RAM cache to mitigate this problem, but it does still happen to some extent.

The wear levelling algorithm isn't as perfect as some like to believe, my OCZ Vertex SSD is less than a year old, but it's already written to some cells over 1,500 times. I've got virtual memory turned off, and I rarely write to the drive. The drive reports that it's got about 70% lifetime left after less than a year. That gives it a total lifetime of around 3 years. If it was a cache drive, it would be overwritten almost continually with little bits of data, so its lifetime would be much less. If a SSD is often used for lots of (even small) writes, whether theoretical calculations disprove it or not, it will last much less time than a HDD.

If you're doing HD video editing, or even playing a few different games, the cache drive may well be overwritten several times a day. Portal 2 is about 6gb, WoW is 20gb+. A 20gb MLC drive wouldn't last long at all if used with the Z68's caching mode. If overwritten fully twice a day with 128kb chunks, that gives it 7 years life in theory. If overwritten randomly, the amount of data sent by the ATA controller may be smaller, causing the problem detailed above.
 
There is an easier way

Almost 20 years ago, Sun was selling an Sbus card that was, in a nutshell, a bank of battery backed static RAM chips. It was coupled with some extra code in the kernel and was essentially a battery backed cache for metadata writes. These were writes to filesystem metadata that had to be done synchronously to insure filesystem safety. The writes could take place to the RAM on the card and be asynchronously flushed to disk in the background. If the OS crashed (or power failed), then the cache would be flushed early in the boot process, and then fsck would ostensibly run clean.

It seems to me that what they're talking about is, essentially, this exact same concept, but with flash instead of battery-backed RAM, and with capacities large enough to cache more than just the filesystem metadata.

And, actually, it seems to me you could do even better for laptops. Since a laptop has a big battery in it anyway, you ought to be able to assure the OS and hardware a second or two of lead time before the power goes out. You could, conceivably, use that time to ask the hard disk to write out its on-disk write cache. In fact, I had heard a rumor once upon a time that there was going to be a hard disk that actually used capacitors on the controller coupled with rotational inertia to write the writable cache out to an inner track when the power was removed from the drive, and then read it back in at startup, thus making the write cache non-volatile across power cycles.

I guess what I'm saying is, why does the cache have to be flash instead of just RAM?
 
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