Interesting differences between units

[Psyclism]

In late November, I purchased a 2.3 32gb 1tb 5500 4gb 16" that was pretty much issue free except for a bum right arrow key that wouldn't respond unless you hit it dead center. The keyboard was fairly "clicky" and firm. No discernible coil whine. Standard level of ghosting. No backlight bleed. Battery life was great. The machine ran well but it seemed like it spun up the fans to near max quite a bit, and would keep the fans at high for several minutes at a time, sometimes for arbitrary reasons where I wasn't really using it for anything. Additionally, the top middle of the case just above the touch bar would get almost too hot to touch when doing anything CPU intensive like benchmarks, and was always fairly warm even when just browsing the internet. Manufacture date: 11/25

So today I took delivery of its replacement - a 2.3 32gb 1Tb 5500 8gb. This machine, manufactured 12/2, has a properly functioning right arrow key. The keyboard feels quite different from the original - it's much less clicky and virtually dead silent, but also mushier in feel - jury is still out on which I prefer. Still no coil whine, and the screen is identical to that of the first unit. This particular machine is getting 1118/7123 in Geekbench 5, and I ran about a half dozen benchmarks in rapid succession to see if I saw any major variances in results. One thing that I noticed that's hugely different between this machine and the old one: I never once heard the fans spin up during any of those benchmark tests, and the case above the touch bar never got more than just slightly warm. In fact, the post-benchmark case temps on this new unit are about what the old one would sit at when idle. Case temps on this new machine when idle are just barely above ambient. I can sit and browse the internet with it on my lap and be comfortable, the old one was sweat inducing. It seems that either the CPU in this unit runs much cooler or something is markedly different in the cooling systems between the two copies. Can't imagine what would cause such a variance.

Just thought I'd share since I found the distinction between two virtually identical machines interesting.

 

[seangrimes590]

Thermal paste. Thermal paste would cause such a variance.

 

[Psyclism]

Thermal paste. Thermal paste would cause such a variance.

So, in your opinion, which machine has the better paste job?

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

In late November, I purchased a 2.3 32gb 1tb 5500 4gb 16" that was pretty much issue free except for a bum right arrow key that wouldn't respond unless you hit it dead center. The keyboard was fairly "clicky" and firm. No discernible coil whine. Standard level of ghosting. No backlight bleed. Battery life was great. The machine ran well but it seemed like it spun up the fans to near max quite a bit, and would keep the fans at high for several minutes at a time, sometimes for arbitrary reasons where I wasn't really using it for anything. Additionally, the top middle of the case just above the touch bar would get almost too hot to touch when doing anything CPU intensive like benchmarks, and was always fairly warm even when just browsing the internet. Manufacture date: 11/25

So today I took delivery of its replacement - a 2.3 32gb 1Tb 5500 8gb. This machine, manufactured 12/2, has a properly functioning right arrow key. The keyboard feels quite different from the original - it's much less clicky and virtually dead silent, but also mushier in feel - jury is still out on which I prefer. Still no coil whine, and the screen is identical to that of the first unit. This particular machine is getting 1118/7123 in Geekbench 5, and I ran about a half dozen benchmarks in rapid succession to see if I saw any major variances in results. One thing that I noticed that's hugely different between this machine and the old one: I never once heard the fans spin up during any of those benchmark tests, and the case above the touch bar never got more than just slightly warm. In fact, the post-benchmark case temps on this new unit are about what the old one would sit at when idle. Case temps on this new machine when idle are just barely above ambient. I can sit and browse the internet with it on my lap and be comfortable, the old one was sweat inducing. It seems that either the CPU in this unit runs much cooler or something is markedly different in the cooling systems between the two copies. Can't imagine what would cause such a variance.

Just thought I'd share since I found the distinction between two virtually identical machines interesting.

Has anybody else noticed such a big keyboard varience?

 

[Quu]

If the case is cooler then the chips you have in the new unit are likely running at a lower voltage. Both Intel and AMD ship their chips with a working voltage range instead of a fixed number due to chip quality variances and the higher the voltage is the hotter they get due to increased power consumption.

In addition to this Apple aggressively undervolts the processors they receive as it results in better performance due to thermal and power limits being the first things reached in high usage scenarios so if you do have better than average silicon in the system the voltages will be very low.

The thermal paste application can make the temperature of the chips vary as was said by a previous poster but that wouldn't affect the notebooks external case temperature.

 

[Dominus Mortem]

I have one of the very first 16" MBPs and the keyboard in mine is about as silent as one can get. The only sound is that of my fingers hitting the plastic, the keys themselves make almost no noise. I actually had trouble adjusting to it at first after coming from the butterfly keyboards. Now it feels like home.

When I first setup the machine the fans came on. I've been using it now for six weeks and they haven't come on even once since the first day.

My display is also glaringly bright. 500 nits is a lot, that I can tell you. True Tone works like it should and the panel always appears to have perfect whites. I can see it shift color temps sometimes.

Also, in the past I have had a lot of trouble with trackpads in the 2017 and 2018 models, of which I went through five (three 13" and two 15") before getting a trackpad that was consistent and not prone to dead spots, and even then I wasn't that happy with them, they just weren't great like I had imagined they should be. On this 16" the trackpad is incredible. No matter where I click, it responds crisply and with perfect tactile response—no dead spots, not even on the very edges.

I do have complaints. The Touch Bar constantly gets in my way, interrupting my workflow. I know some people love it. But some of us hate it. I really wish Apple had a version without it. I know the 2019 Air comes without it and I may actually buy one for my writing gigs and use the 16" for everything else. But then I'd be back to the inferior keyboard. Apple is great, but frustrating at times too.

 

[am2am]

I also believe silicon difference plays role here.
I've purchased 15" i9 2.3 in June and was not very satisfied - performance was lower than average (with geekbench benchmark so may not be the best reference) and it was becoming hot frequently. I've seen few threads here suggesting that 2.4 might be undervolted better as well.
I've returned it - not because of the above factors, but decided to get more SSD. Luckily for me MBP16 rumours appeared and I decided to wait.

Now I have MBP16 i9 2.4 - decided to go for it not because of additional performance, but because of CPU binning. Based on my previous experience I didn't want to risk with 2.3 which can be great but also can be problematic.
Not regretting it - temps are really low with light usage (it is hot under load of course but that's expected). Not sure if 2.4 CPU is the main factor here but I am really happy with its performance (FCP rules on it) and silence/low temperature (=longer battery life) operations with light use.

 

[jimmy43]

undervalued

I guess you mean undervolted? Do you know if anyone has confirmed that any of the MBP16s are undervolted?

I also have the i9 and it easily handles 100% (all 8 core) cpu utilization for 10-20 minutes at a time without overheating. During this mode the fans at full tilt can be a bit loud, otherwise when doing normal work the laptop is dead quiet and very cool.

 

[smbu2000]

I also believe silicon difference plays role here.
I've purchased 15" i9 2.3 in June and was not very satisfied - performance was lower than average (with geekbench benchmark so may not be the best reference) and it was becoming hot frequently. I've seen few threads here suggesting that 2.4 might be undervalued better as well.
I've returned it - not because of the above factors, but decided to get more SSD. Luckily for me MBP16 rumours appeared and I decided to wait.

Now I have MBP16 i9 2.4 - decided to go for it not because of additional performance, but because of CPU binning. Based on my previous experience I didn't want to risk with 2.3 which can be great but also can be problematic.
Not regretting it - temps are really low with light usage (it is hot under load of course but that's expected). Not sure if 2.4 CPU is the main factor here but I am really happy with its performance (FCP rules on it) and silence/low temperature (=longer battery life) operations with light use.

Don’t the 16” MBPs have better cooling compared to the previous 15” models? That would probably make up the difference in performance that you are seeing.
I believe that I saw some reviews showing that the 2.3 i9 in the 16” was performing better than the 2.4 in the 2019 15" because of better cooling/less throttling.

 

[am2am]

I guess you mean undervolted?

yes undervolted - did not notice autocorrect action - corrected my post. thanks
[automerge]1577811448[/automerge]

Don’t the 16” MBPs have better cooling compared to the previous 15” models? That would probably make up the difference in performance that you are seeing.
I believe that I saw some reviews showing that the 2.3 i9 in the 16” was performing better than the 2.4 in the 2019 15" because of better cooling/less throttling.

Yes - MBP16 is performing better than 15" with the same CPU thanks to the better cooling.
My main focus here was not really on the performance but on low temperatures with light use - I did not have the same with MBP15". It can be better cooling but also better binned processor - or both.
Anyhow - I am satisfied with the end result.

 

[redheeler]

In late November, I purchased a 2.3 32gb 1tb 5500 4gb 16" that was pretty much issue free except for a bum right arrow key that wouldn't respond unless you hit it dead center. The keyboard was fairly "clicky" and firm. No discernible coil whine. Standard level of ghosting. No backlight bleed. Battery life was great. The machine ran well but it seemed like it spun up the fans to near max quite a bit, and would keep the fans at high for several minutes at a time, sometimes for arbitrary reasons where I wasn't really using it for anything. Additionally, the top middle of the case just above the touch bar would get almost too hot to touch when doing anything CPU intensive like benchmarks, and was always fairly warm even when just browsing the internet. Manufacture date: 11/25

So today I took delivery of its replacement - a 2.3 32gb 1Tb 5500 8gb. This machine, manufactured 12/2, has a properly functioning right arrow key. The keyboard feels quite different from the original - it's much less clicky and virtually dead silent, but also mushier in feel - jury is still out on which I prefer. Still no coil whine, and the screen is identical to that of the first unit. This particular machine is getting 1118/7123 in Geekbench 5, and I ran about a half dozen benchmarks in rapid succession to see if I saw any major variances in results. One thing that I noticed that's hugely different between this machine and the old one: I never once heard the fans spin up during any of those benchmark tests, and the case above the touch bar never got more than just slightly warm. In fact, the post-benchmark case temps on this new unit are about what the old one would sit at when idle. Case temps on this new machine when idle are just barely above ambient. I can sit and browse the internet with it on my lap and be comfortable, the old one was sweat inducing. It seems that either the CPU in this unit runs much cooler or something is markedly different in the cooling systems between the two copies. Can't imagine what would cause such a variance.

Just thought I'd share since I found the distinction between two virtually identical machines interesting.

You sure it's not something software-related? For example, an app running in the background forcing the dedicated GPU to remain active will cause it to always run hotter, even if not doing anything very intensive. Such an app should have a Yes under Graphics Card in Activity Monitor. It's also possible you unchecked Automatic graphics switching in System Preferences > Energy Saver, in which case the dGPU will always be utilized even after a clean restart. You can use gfxCardStatus or iStat Menus to determine which GPU is active, but the only way to tell for sure if something is utilizing the dGPU is by checking the power draw via iStat Menus.

I'm sure there is some variance between units, but this seems a little too extreme to not have another explanation.

 

[miroki]

I can confirm the mushier keyboard. I got my first unit on 12 Dec and its replacement two weeks later. The first thing I notice is the mushier keyboard. I prefer the first one but the second one is quieter. The other differences being 1 touch pad is less responsive to click than the first one. 2 CPU runs better than 1st (the main reason I returned the 1st one, geekbench score raises to 7200 from 6900, both 2.4ghz). 3 battery life feels better for the second one. It almost feels it doubles than the first one but this could only be my subjective feeling. Coconut reports identical battery capacity.
Both units have coil whine, quiet fans. Displays look the same to my eyes. I guess I’m not sensitive to ghosting.

 

[applesed]

We talked about the difference in keyboards here:

Comparing 16" mbp keyboards

a space grey 32/2tb in store configuration, vs. silver maxed out BTO except 4tb I noticed that the keys on the space grey are less resistence, and more "give". perception of less travel to bottom. Compared to the silver BTO, more resistance, feels like more travel. It feels like the space grey...

forums.macrumors.com

Although the contrast was more between stiffer/quieter,deeper tone vs. less stiff/louder,clackier.. I'm not sure if this "mushy" description falls under either profile, my initial guess is the less stiff one but you did say quieter. I settled on the 2nd one simply because I felt the first was harder to press.

 

[Psyclism]

You sure it's not something software-related? For example, an app running in the background forcing the dedicated GPU to remain active will cause it to always run hotter, even if not doing anything very intensive. Such an app should have a Yes under Graphics Card in Activity Monitor. It's also possible you unchecked Automatic graphics switching in System Preferences > Energy Saver, in which case the dGPU will always be utilized even after a clean restart. You can use gfxCardStatus or iStat Menus to determine which GPU is active, but the only way to tell for sure if something is utilizing the dGPU is by checking the power draw via iStat Menus.

I'm sure there is some variance between units, but this seems a little too extreme to not have another explanation.

Nope. Identical software installed and running. iStat tells me which GPU is running, and I can confirm that integrated is running on both, plus I've used the terminal commands to disable the discrete GPU anytime both laptops are unplugged.