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interesting info about the white box refurbs and ranting
- Thread starter joneszee954
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All i can say is you have obviously not worked retail before. Those people have a tough job and i am sure they appreciate you making it even more difficult, more condescending, and more belittling than it was before you walked up to the counter.
Consider a few things before you attempt to make yourself feel like more of a man by trying to rip into someone else who's job is to provide you with service:
-They did not make you wait that long on purpose! I have waited a long time at a genius bar before as well, but i knew there was a crap ton of people in the store and the genius' were overwhelmed. Mine apologized which i gladly accepted and we went on.
-They are following orders/directions from someone hire up! They can very rarely magically snap their fingers and give you what you want, they have to follow rules or they get written up.
-They might already be having a really bad day! Because some inconsiderate twit like yourself came in an hour ago and yelled at them for something else. The bad things stay longer than the good.
This is coming from someone who paid dues in 4 years of retail before graduating and becoming a teacher and is married to someone who also put in 4 years of retail - together we have experienced 8 years of hell thanks to people like you.
Now there are some times when employees are rude for no reason, someone is not trained properly, or no one is willing to help you and i understand frustration with that - but if someone is helping you or trying to:
please be respectful
Consider a few things before you attempt to make yourself feel like more of a man by trying to rip into someone else who's job is to provide you with service:
-They did not make you wait that long on purpose! I have waited a long time at a genius bar before as well, but i knew there was a crap ton of people in the store and the genius' were overwhelmed. Mine apologized which i gladly accepted and we went on.
-They are following orders/directions from someone hire up! They can very rarely magically snap their fingers and give you what you want, they have to follow rules or they get written up.
-They might already be having a really bad day! Because some inconsiderate twit like yourself came in an hour ago and yelled at them for something else. The bad things stay longer than the good.
This is coming from someone who paid dues in 4 years of retail before graduating and becoming a teacher and is married to someone who also put in 4 years of retail - together we have experienced 8 years of hell thanks to people like you.
Now there are some times when employees are rude for no reason, someone is not trained properly, or no one is willing to help you and i understand frustration with that - but if someone is helping you or trying to:
please be respectful
The problem is - there is an expectation (and a valid one at that) that you would get a new phone, under warranty mind you, instead of a refurbished phone.
Instead of a phone - let's say you have recently bought a car - with cracking in the bumpers within 2 weeks ( or insert any other cosmetic defect here - you haven't hit anything - bumpers just started cracking, etc., and it's a widely documented and affecting several people, though uncertain of the extent of the problem).. You'd want a new car without the issue instead of a refurbished one - correct?
In short and to the OP point..
I personally find it abhorrent that Apple is actually treating customers that purchased the phone at an ATT store differently than if the customer had purchased the phone at the Apple store. Yes - I own a iPhone 3G - and yes I bought it at an ATT store. The reason? Because I had to go to the ATT store to purchase a new phone (not an iPhone) for my father-in-law and attach to my plan as well. If I hadn't had the need to purchase the additional phone - I probably would have gone directly to the Apple store (even though when I called both stores at the time, they were actually out of stock of the phone and the ATT store did have stock available).
In short - I'm a "new" Apple customer - this is the first Apple product I've owned. I can honestly state that I'm definitely impressed with the iPhone and it's capabilities compared to the other many phones I've owned in my short lifetime. I'm also excited at the full potential that the iPhone can attain over the next few years, potentially making me a repeat customer.
However - I've never seen a company attempt to control their market share/customers in such a fashion as I've seen Apple attempt to do with this product. It's disheartening to see not only the continual App Store issues that developers have to deal with and the practices that Apple enforces there (a developer can't create a "better"/innovative/competing product to Apple's "standard" applications (PodCaster vs. iTunes) - give me a break) - to now indications of preferential treatment (new phone vs. refurb phone replacement policy) based on where a customer purchases their hardware?
Maybe to the "average" customer - they're willing to overlook these questionable business practices, however, with me (and I'm sure others as well) - it gives me cause for concern and pause as to whether or not I should return this product before my 30-day window expires. Assuming I keep the iPhone and "look" the other way - if Apple continues down this path of closing/restricting such a (IMHO) revolutionary product - I certainly will not be a repeat customer when it comes time to replace my current iPhone with the advent of the 4th/5th gen iPhone.
I really dont think a car is a good comparison.
A refurbished phone has any part that would ever be subject to wear and tear from use replaced. Every single cosmetic imperfection would be fixed in the refurbishing problem so the only parts that remain are the inner workings which im sure are completely identical to a new phone. The difference between a car and a phone is that the processor/memory do not become less efficient from use; an engine and all related parts lose performance with use, hence the drop in value when you roll off the lot.
I understand the argument for a new phone when recently purchasing one; i think its valid. I'm only saying the differences between a new phone and refurbished phone are very minimal.
A refurbished phone has any part that would ever be subject to wear and tear from use replaced. Every single cosmetic imperfection would be fixed in the refurbishing problem so the only parts that remain are the inner workings which im sure are completely identical to a new phone. The difference between a car and a phone is that the processor/memory do not become less efficient from use; an engine and all related parts lose performance with use, hence the drop in value when you roll off the lot.
I understand the argument for a new phone when recently purchasing one; i think its valid. I'm only saying the differences between a new phone and refurbished phone are very minimal.
I have to say that I agree 100% completely with the OP as I am in the exact situation!
I have been buying electronics for a long time and in that time I have NEVER been given a refurb in place of brand new product I just purchased.
There is a reason that I continue to shop at places like Bestbuy and Futureshop and that is because I have confidence that if I get the product home and it breaks within a reasonable amount of time, that they will replace the defective product with a brand new one off the shelf, with no questions asked.
This gives me the confidence that when I spend my hard earned money, that I will be getting exactly what I paid for.
Some of you will argue that a refurb is just as good, or better than a new phone, but I simply don't buy it. No matter which way you swing it, these are used phones and as such I have no idea what they have been through.
Secondly, it's all about principal. As the OP said, our money is worth a lot to us and some of us work very hard for the things we buy. When I walk into a store and buy a product I expect that company to treat me, and my money with a certain amount of respect.
To me, when someone is given a refurbished phone after only 2 weeks (or 4 days in my case) what it says is that they don't respect us enough as customers to give us a product that is exactly what we originally purchased. To me (and I assume many others), it feels like we were cheated out of what we originally bought because Apple doesn't want to loose money on a product that has obvious problems.
So to the OP, you are right to have done what you did. I am doing the same myself. I refuse to take a refurbished phone after only 4 days of owning the one I bought.
This fiasco with Apple has shown me that I can not trust this company to treat me and the money I spend with respect and as such this iPhone will be my first and last Apple product.
____
I wanted to add this on the end to show you the difference between apple and another company I deal with.
About a year ago I ordered a 24" monitor from Dell. When I plugged it in, it had a dead pixel. As a graphic/web designer this simply wasn't acceptable to me, so I called Dell and they said, "No problem, we understand completely, we're sending out a new one."
About a week later a new one showed up, I plugged that in and low and behold, another two dead pixels. I called them back and they said, "I'm so sorry you're having issues with our monitors, we do have a 10 pixel maximum before they're considered defective, but we want you to be happy!"
So, again they sent out another monitor. At one time I had over $4000 worth of monitors sitting in my place as I wanted to wait to make sure I could pick the best one. The new one they sent had no dead pixels, I sent the others back and I am still using that monitor, defect free, today.
What this did was give me the confidence that if I shop with Dell, that I will get what I paid for and they will make it right no matter what my "petty" concerns are.
I can't say the same for Apple. After 4 days of owning my phone I am now getting a refurbished one, I feel cheated and neglected as a customer. I feel like Apple is trying to save a buck by pawning off phones to me that went back to Apple because they were broken in the first place.
I DO NOT want a USED phone!
I have been buying electronics for a long time and in that time I have NEVER been given a refurb in place of brand new product I just purchased.
There is a reason that I continue to shop at places like Bestbuy and Futureshop and that is because I have confidence that if I get the product home and it breaks within a reasonable amount of time, that they will replace the defective product with a brand new one off the shelf, with no questions asked.
This gives me the confidence that when I spend my hard earned money, that I will be getting exactly what I paid for.
Some of you will argue that a refurb is just as good, or better than a new phone, but I simply don't buy it. No matter which way you swing it, these are used phones and as such I have no idea what they have been through.
Secondly, it's all about principal. As the OP said, our money is worth a lot to us and some of us work very hard for the things we buy. When I walk into a store and buy a product I expect that company to treat me, and my money with a certain amount of respect.
To me, when someone is given a refurbished phone after only 2 weeks (or 4 days in my case) what it says is that they don't respect us enough as customers to give us a product that is exactly what we originally purchased. To me (and I assume many others), it feels like we were cheated out of what we originally bought because Apple doesn't want to loose money on a product that has obvious problems.
So to the OP, you are right to have done what you did. I am doing the same myself. I refuse to take a refurbished phone after only 4 days of owning the one I bought.
This fiasco with Apple has shown me that I can not trust this company to treat me and the money I spend with respect and as such this iPhone will be my first and last Apple product.
____
I wanted to add this on the end to show you the difference between apple and another company I deal with.
About a year ago I ordered a 24" monitor from Dell. When I plugged it in, it had a dead pixel. As a graphic/web designer this simply wasn't acceptable to me, so I called Dell and they said, "No problem, we understand completely, we're sending out a new one."
About a week later a new one showed up, I plugged that in and low and behold, another two dead pixels. I called them back and they said, "I'm so sorry you're having issues with our monitors, we do have a 10 pixel maximum before they're considered defective, but we want you to be happy!"
So, again they sent out another monitor. At one time I had over $4000 worth of monitors sitting in my place as I wanted to wait to make sure I could pick the best one. The new one they sent had no dead pixels, I sent the others back and I am still using that monitor, defect free, today.
What this did was give me the confidence that if I shop with Dell, that I will get what I paid for and they will make it right no matter what my "petty" concerns are.
I can't say the same for Apple. After 4 days of owning my phone I am now getting a refurbished one, I feel cheated and neglected as a customer. I feel like Apple is trying to save a buck by pawning off phones to me that went back to Apple because they were broken in the first place.
I DO NOT want a USED phone!
I think the point is that if you can't tell you've a refurb, it shouldn't matter. The point also is that you're getting a better product when you get a reconditioned one because all detected problems have been fixed, which would give you a better user experience.
And for many, they can't tell. Some on the other hand know...because they were told they were refurbs such as myself and the OP.
The point is there is no guarantee it's a "better" product. How do I know that the phone wasn't sent back because it was used in a high humidity environment, or that the original owner dropped it a few times. How can I be sure that it wasn't sat on and now the screen, while still working will fail much sooner than a new phone?
How can I be sure the factory tech replaced everything that APPEARED to be faulty, but missed the chip that was close to burned out because the original owner plugged it into a charger that wasn't made for the phone.
How do I know that the problem it was sent back for was correctly fixed? I have heard of people exchanging phones due to the 2.1 software breaking the fetch mail....so what gets replaced on these refurbs?
I could go on, but the fact is that if I am getting a used phone, then I expect to pay a used phone price. I don't care if they replace the glass and ship it back out, the simple fact is that it has been used (and possibly abused) by another person, and as such I feel that I shouldn't have to pay full price for a phone that isn't new.
I should be able to shop with confidence that if I spend $350 on a new product, and it breaks due to manufacture defect within a reasonable amount of time, then I should have it replaced with the same product I sent back.
I may be wrong here, but as the original poster mentioned, he did buy the phone from the ATT store. Now when I bought mine, I had to get it from ATT as well because I have a Premier account. When mine got dust under the screen after a couple of days, I went to ATT and they said they would order me a new one. So why is it you have to go to apple for this. If you fall within the time period of phone return/exchange with ATT, just go there. I do not think we have to go to the Apple store to do this.
I understand what the original poster is saying. I did not want a "refurb" either in exchange for my "brand new" iphone. However, being as I got my phone near launch and had already had to do the dreaded direct fulfillment thing with ATT, I did not want to wait longer to get another phone, which may have just as many or even more problems. So guess what, I went to Apple afterall and exchanged it out there. Now the good thing is, I got to check the phone fully before accepting it right there in the store. I checked for light leak, cracks, dust, dead pixels, sound, screen color, uneven bezel etc. The phone was perfect. Now granted, this was so early on that I knew I was getting a new phone, but still, even if it had been a "refurb" I would not have cared cause it was better than the one I initially bought.
Just food for thought.
I understand what the original poster is saying. I did not want a "refurb" either in exchange for my "brand new" iphone. However, being as I got my phone near launch and had already had to do the dreaded direct fulfillment thing with ATT, I did not want to wait longer to get another phone, which may have just as many or even more problems. So guess what, I went to Apple afterall and exchanged it out there. Now the good thing is, I got to check the phone fully before accepting it right there in the store. I checked for light leak, cracks, dust, dead pixels, sound, screen color, uneven bezel etc. The phone was perfect. Now granted, this was so early on that I knew I was getting a new phone, but still, even if it had been a "refurb" I would not have cared cause it was better than the one I initially bought.
Just food for thought.
FYI, the refurbs, in my opinion, are better than new. They have been looked over and everything replaced or fixed. The refurbs arent coming off the production line. They are being serviced indiviually and wont have the light leaks, cracks, etccc that new ones have.
where did the OP go? he went AWOL just because someone brought up the inconsistencies in his post.
eace:i bought my fatpod and my macbook refurb'd and have no issues with them since the day I got them.
Defects happen. Your defect happens to be a cosmetic one. Refurbs have what appears to me a completely brand new housing, so I don't understand what your issue is? You do realize that refurbs are inspected much more carefully than a new phone, right?
Car, Phone, XBox, Playstation, TV, etc.. Comparisons are ultimately the same in the end in this case (we're talking about 2 weeks after receiving the product - not 6 months to a year afterwards where the wear/tear argument comes in...).
What it really boils down to is that the OP came across a situation where he/she was treated differently based on the location the phone was purchased - which shouldn't happen - period.
I'd agree with you that refurbished products, in general, are just as good and/or even better (in some aspects - i.e. PS refurbs typically have newer technology/motherboards, etc.) than the original - especially with regards to electronics, etc.
However, that said - the company should have a stated policy with regards to refurbished vs. new replacements (i.e. phones > 3 months old will be replaced with a refurbished phone) - not the scenario as outlined by the OP. The immediate expectation in that case would be an automatic "new" replacement...
When you pay for a product that it isn't cheap, you demand the best from it. OP you did the right thing. And you were lucky too.
eh.. Go back and read the post again.. if it was a brand new car around 2 weeks old and there were already cracks in the bumper - they'd be replacing it with a new car..
Can anyone confirm this is true? Because it was my understanding that Apple gives out "refurbs" as replacement for defective iPhones no matter what. So even if you did buy one from an Apple store, you would get a refurb if you find a defect and ask to swap it for another one.
Also, I looked up Apple's warranty for the iPhone:
http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/070808_iphone_Warranty.pdf
It clearly states that Apple will exchange a defective phone with one "that is new or equivalent to new," thus giving Apple the option to give out a new or refurb phone as a replacement at its discretion, and leaves customers demanding a new phone for replacement w/o a legal leg to stand on.
Well - whether it's true or not depends on whether or not you believe the OP's story..
Given the context of the story - I don't doubt that what the OP stated is, at least in part, true. I received a black box with my iPhone - I've never seen these "white" (refurbished) boxes, to be honest....
What you've quoted from Apple's warranty - yes - it's true that they can provide either one "at the company's discretion". You'll find most other electronics / hardware companies will not replace their defective products based on discriminatory methods (purchasing at an Apple Store versus an ATT store). Again - that's if you believe the OP's story..
Every one of us could get a refurb and no one would really know, even those who've never had an iPhone before. It appears that ven the Geniuses don't know what's a refurb and what isn't. Those people who keep insisting on that perfect unmarred phone or laptop is just making it worse for those who are being reasonable and honest about everything. Imagine if everyone insisted on a product that is always pristine an unmarred and tried to return them...Apple would be less than lenient for even the more legitimate issues.
If you feel that strongly about the product, put it on your home insurance for peace of mind. You're more than likely guaranteed a new product if you go that route and if you abuse the system, the insurance company can always cut you off or raise your rates.
If you feel that strongly about the product, put it on your home insurance for peace of mind. You're more than likely guaranteed a new product if you go that route and if you abuse the system, the insurance company can always cut you off or raise your rates.
Why continue hashing on a concept / train of thought? My point is simply that, based on the OP's post, Apple's method of replacing his/her defective product shouldn't be considered "normal" or "expected". Is that too hard to justify?
With *every* other electronics device / hardware that I've ever owned prior to this product - if I have ever had an issue with said device - I simply took it back to the store I purchased it from and it was gladly exchanged for a brand new item immediately, without contest.
The point of the whole discussion here is the action of Apple in response to a defective product that has been returned within 2 weeks and subsequently replaced with a refurbished device, based on the fact that he/she didn't purchase it at the Apple store?
And amazingly, to add to that - many people find no problem/issue with this "policy". I find it mind-boggling that merely a few people agree with the OP's point in that he/she should have had the device replaced with a new one - no questions asked.
If you're fine with taking a refurbished device - so be it - but the old saying goes - "to each his own". And while I agree that technically, there may not be much of a difference between a refurbished device versus a new device - ultimately, to the OP's point, the expectation is there to receive a new device upon request without question. I would expect the same (new device replacement) if I had the same thing happen to me.
refurbs don't crack...that's right... true story
refurb = used .... your phone = used
deal with it.
refurb = used .... your phone = used
deal with it.