Investor Carl Icahn to Meet with Apple CEO Tim Cook on Monday, September 30

[IJ Reilly]

First of all, this is not a corporate raid - Icahn cannot force a decision to be made with the small stake he holds in Apple. He can have lunch with Tim Cook, and Mr Cook can still say 'no'. He can try to enter into a proxy war, but that will take ages, and I doubt he is willing to do that in the case of Apple.

Second, people here comment on the fact that Icahn does not care about the real business of the company. Perhaps. The argument runs that none of the companies he has invested in during the past have benefited from his investments and that he is a parasite leeching funds off the company to make a quick gain. That may be true to some extent. However, corporate raiders do not take over (or invest in) companies where the management is doing a perfect job - typically, they only invest in companies where management is doing a subpar job and there are gains to be made from the time and money invested. Those gains have to be sufficient enough to warrant the huge investments and time spent, so that means the management must truly be doing something inefficient.

This whole activity is simply a form of correction, where market participants monitor the management and take action if capital can be deployed more efficiently somewhere else. Without knowing that much about apple's business, it seems that Apple can return at least 50 billion in cash to investors and still have a sufficient cushion to invest in R&D and save for a rainy day. Perhaps the investors would prefer to invest that 50 billion in biotech, or semiconductors, or even cereal companies. As owners of the company they have certain rights to demand the cash back.

Well said. You don't have to be a fan of Carl Icahn to agree with his assessment that Apple has kept a lot of investor value off the table.

 

[giantfan1224]

Growth and stock price going up are the concern here, not current cash.

Then maybe "wounded prey" was a poor metaphor choice? Or, how exactly is Apple "wounded"? Also, growth doesn't seem to be an issue since their 9 million iPhones sold announcement and revising their guidance upward.

 

[foxnews1]

Then maybe "wounded prey" was a poor metaphor choice? Or, how exactly is Apple "wounded"? Also, growth doesn't seem to be an issue since their 9 million iPhones sold announcement and revising their guidance upward.

how about you go buy some more apple stocks to show that you believe in apple future growth?

 

[IJ Reilly]

how about you go buy some more apple stocks to show that you believe in apple future growth?

This AAPL stockholder of over 15 years is not worried about Carl Icahn. So far the only impact of his investment is that the markets have taken notice and pushed the stock upwards. I for one have no complaints about that, and I have a hard time imagining why any stockholder would have complaints about that.

 

[GadgetDon]

This AAPL stockholder of over 15 years is not worried about Carl Icahn. So far the only impact of his investment is that the markets have taken notice and pushed the stock upwards. I for one have no complaints about that, and I have a hard time imagining why any stockholder would have complaints about that.

You're currently riding the pump. Beware the dump.

 

[TTile]

You're currently riding the pump. Beware the dump.

Not really. The stock has been ranging at 450-500, pretty much the same as pre-Icahn.

 

[Stephen123]

Icahn is a stockholder, and like all stockholders he is legally a partial owner of the company. Stockholders in the aggregate are Tim's boss. Insofar as Icahn's interests are in line with other stockholder's interests, such as wanting for Apple to pay out their unused mountain of cash, Apple should be listening to him very carefully, and doing the best they can for their owners.

*This* is why Icahn is a threat to Apple despite his minor percentage investment. His line rings true to people. Unfortunately his track record is to use that to destroy companies.

 

[Battlefield Fan]

What you are talking is what the bull leaves in the field hat normal people avoid stepping in.

Baloney! There is nothing cheap about the 5C and frankly it follows the same pattern they have used for years. It does package last years model in a better case but that isn't exactly ground breaking.

This is the most idiotic thing I've seen in years. Multiple sizes of iPads make sense just like multiple size of laptops make sense. Would you expect Apple to sell laptops with just one size of screen?


You do it apparently due to blissful ignorance of what has made Apple successful. For example iPod Nano was a very successful product an was extremely important for Apple at the time. Not every product last forever, even the Apple 2 came to an end eventually.

thanks for playing

 

[IJ Reilly]

You're currently riding the pump. Beware the dump.

I call BS. But then, I've only been in this stock for 16 years, so what do I know?

 

[GadgetDon]

I call BS. But then, I've only been in this stock for 16 years, so what do I know?

I don't mean you jumped in to ride the pump. I'm just seeing that any gains you're seeing now from Carl Icahn's interest are temporary, and long term, he's going to be bad for your investment.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I don't mean you jumped in to ride the pump. I'm just seeing that any gains you're seeing now from Carl Icahn's interest are temporary, and long term, he's going to be bad for your investment.

Not that you have any idea why. You just say the name Carl Icahn and believe that makes your argument. No sale, sorry.

 

[GadgetDon]

Not that you have any idea why. You just say the name Carl Icahn and believe that makes your argument. No sale, sorry.

I know that where Carl Icahn goes, companies are hurt if not destroyed, he gets lots of cash out of it and it's a crapshoot about how well anyone outside of his circle does.

 

[giantfan1224]

how about you go buy some more apple stocks to show that you believe in apple future growth?

Oh, I have. I own as much as I care to own right now. Since I, or most people for that matter, don't have unlimited funds, I'm happy in my position where it stands and don't need to buy more. If I bought into your line of thinking, and believed Apple has tapped out on innovation and growth, I would certainly have sold my whole position by now.

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I know that where Carl Icahn goes, companies are hurt if not destroyed, he gets lots of cash out of it and it's a crapshoot about how well anyone outside of his circle does.

Again, you're overestimating his position and influence over THE MOST VALUABLE COMPANY IN THE WORLD!! This isn't TWA or Dell, where things were bleak when he bought in.

Sorry for shouting.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I know that where Carl Icahn goes, companies are hurt if not destroyed, he gets lots of cash out of it and it's a crapshoot about how well anyone outside of his circle does.

Once again, you aren't being realistic about what Icahn can do with his 0.5% holding besides getting some face time with Tim Cook. Back in the late '90s Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bought a holding in AAPL ten times this size. I'm sure he got his calls to Steve Jobs returned, but nobody made doom-and-gloom predictions about how he would use his influence to ransack the company. In fact I believe he's still a stockholder.

But I am not the only person telling you that Carl Icahn does not possess magical or mystical powers. Not that you will ever believe it, apparently.

 

[dan110]

Icahn is bad news for Apple. If they were smart, they would just ignore him. Or maybe they're placating him to keep him off their backs.

 

[GadgetDon]

Once again, you aren't being realistic about what Icahn can do with his 0.5% holding besides getting some face time with Tim Cook. Back in the late '90s Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bought a holding in AAPL ten times this size. I'm sure he got his calls to Steve Jobs returned, but nobody made doom-and-gloom predictions about how he would use his influence to ransack the company. In fact I believe he's still a stockholder.

But I am not the only person telling you that Carl Icahn does not possess magical or mystical powers. Not that you will ever believe it, apparently.

Not magical. But Carl knows how to play the press and the industrial investors like a fiddle. It may be that he's picked a target too big, I sure hope so.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Not magical. But Carl knows how to play the press and the industrial investors like a fiddle. It may be that he's picked a target too big, I sure hope so.

Nor mystical, I take it. Which makes me wonder how he plays anyone like any kind of instrument.

I presume you meant institutional investors. They know Icahn better than anyone, and will only go along with him where they have common interests. At this point I'd say this is mainly in the area of dividends, but with Apple's fairly extraordinary recent efforts to pass more cash along to stockholders, I don't see where Icahn and the fund managers will have a lot to talk about. I sure can't see them pooling their votes to put him on the board.

 

[koruki]

If Steve was around he'd this guy to F*& off and stop wasting his time.

 

[donutbagel]

Icahn's not my favorite guy but in this case I think he's right. Apple stock is undervalued. Apple should accelerate their stock buyback plans.

Yeah, I agree, and having a 1 billion dollar investment in Apple doesn't exactly give you a strong influence. That's about .23% of the company.

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Icahn is bad news for Apple. If they were smart, they would just ignore him. Or maybe they're placating him to keep him off their backs.

Why, is it not a good idea to do a buyback right now?

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I call BS. But then, I've only been in this stock for 16 years, so what do I know?

You're right about Icahn (type that as "iCahn" at first), but you should have sold at $700

 

[lzyprson]

Apple is sitting on all of that money because they learned from their mistakes in the past. The last thing they want to do is have to go back to Microsoft (or google for that matter!!!) and ask for money like they did in the late 90s.

What would Steve jobs have done? Probably buy back their shares and tell him to take a hike.?

Apple should buy back it's stock. Screw giving these greedy investors any money - they're the reason why stock prices are so low in the first place!!

 

[donutbagel]

Has anyone made an iCahn joke yet?

I did, but it was by accident.

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Apple is sitting on all of that money because they learned from their mistakes in the past. The last thing they want to do is have to go back to Microsoft (or google for that matter!!!) and ask for money like they did in the late 90s.

What would Steve jobs have done? Probably buy back their shares and tell him to take a hike.?

Apple should buy back it's stock. Screw giving these greedy investors any money - they're the reason why stock prices are so low in the first place!!

A buyback is exactly what Icahn wants and what might be good for Apple as well. I've also heard that a buyback is a good way to get around taxes in some way, but I forget why.

 

[Pyrrhic Victory]

Apple is not undervalued. $700 was a scam. $300-$350 is the correct price for their stock. Anything higher is a bubble that will burst. Apple has yet to prove that they won't have the same outcome of Nokia or Blackberry since phones are half their business.

Did you just pull that number out of your ass? Are you suggesting that Apple is currently overvalued by 40-60%, based on the current price of $486? You must be selling short short, right?

 

[IJ Reilly]

Apple is sitting on all of that money because they learned from their mistakes in the past. The last thing they want to do is have to go back to Microsoft (or google for that matter!!!) and ask for money like they did in the late 90s.

Since this never actually happened except in the world of myth, I wouldn't worry about it. What I would worry about is Apple worrying about operating at a loss instead of a profit, which is the only reason why they'd need to stockpile all that money.

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Did you just pull that number out of your ass? Are you suggesting that Apple is currently overvalued by 40-60%, based on the current price of $486? You must be selling short short, right?

Money and mouths are rarely in the same place.

 

[GadgetDon]

Nor mystical, I take it. Which makes me wonder how he plays anyone like any kind of instrument.

I presume you meant institutional investors. They know Icahn better than anyone, and will only go along with him where they have common interests. At this point I'd say this is mainly in the area of dividends, but with Apple's fairly extraordinary recent efforts to pass more cash along to stockholders, I don't see where Icahn and the fund managers will have a lot to talk about. I sure can't see them pooling their votes to put him on the board.

By playing like a fiddle, he knows just how to manipulate them. How to generate stories that the media will cover with his desired spin, how to hit the fear and greed points of institutional investors, etc.

Since this never actually happened except in the world of myth, I wouldn't worry about it. What I would worry about is Apple worrying about operating at a loss instead of a profit, which is the only reason why they'd need to stockpile all that money.

The reason they'll give is to preserve assets for a large acquisition - plus much of that money was earned offshore so if brought into the country for distribution, Uncle Sam instantly grabs 35% or so even though neither the production nor the sales happened here. And those are valid reasons.

But Apple is often like the cat who sat on a hot stove once and never sat on a hot stove again - or a cold one. While Apple wasn't going bankrupt when Jobs returned, their capital fund was very low and limited their options, so Apple doesn't want to be in the same position. Same bit, I suspect, limiting multiple phone releases: When Jobs returned, the list of models was a muddled mess. Jobs reduced it to four - Professional Laptop (PowerBook), Consumer Laptop (iBook), Professional Desktop (Macintosh Pro), Consumer Desktop (iMac). And Apple has carried this goal of clean and simple product lines forward, which may be why we haven't seen multiple sizes of iPhones.

 

[ActionableMango]

What he's doing (attempting to manipulate the value of his own investment) is still wrong and should be highly illegal

Why should it be illegal for shareholders to suggest that a CEO should perform actions that increase the value of their investment? This is a very normal and acceptable thing to do.