iOS 16 PHOTO MANAGEMENT — Filing Pics — Apple GURU Help Please!

[TechNutt]

Good Day Everyone.

I’m hoping some wise owls can help me with a problem I have experienced with Apple Photos for quite some time. It’s really driving me bonkers, and I had hoped iOS 16 would finally be a cure. The Duplicate photos option isn’t what I’m seeking here.

I want to sort my camera roll of 50k+ photos into organized folders and have the photos removed from my camera roll instead of a virtual copy remaining in its place. When I sort a roll of 100 pics individually into their designated folders I create, I don’t want the pic to remain in the general album. I need it to MOVE from the camera roll into folders, which is what sorting actually is. Currently, it’s near impossible to sort through a myriad of pics with efficiency or without confusion.

As is, iOS 16 to my knowledge still doesn’t allow for this. There’s got to be some good apps or tools from other tech companies I can utilize to help me with this issue! I brought this inquiry tonight to an Apple rep who didn’t have a solution but has the same issue. Any advice on this, please?!?!

I very much appreciate any feedback!

 

[bransoj]

Not sure if it will suit you but i use OneDrive to back them up with its auto upload feature. It backs them all up to a Camera Roll folder on OneDrive and then every so often i go into OneDrive and sort all the pictures into their relevant folders and once i know its all done i clear out the default location in Photos on my phone. To get 50,000 photos you may need a fair bit of space but it would work.

I managed to build up 30gb of storage on OneDrive for free as you get 15gb to start with and then 15gb when you turn on the camera back up. Currently i've got 12.5gb of photos which appears to be just shy of 4000 photos as i delete plenty as well instead of keeping everything along with about 1.5gb of other stuff so still plenty of room to go. There are subscriptions to get more space.

Once they've uploaded you can either use the web version or sync the folder to your PC\Mac with the app to do the organising if its easier. You can also share folders with others if you need to

 

[TorbenIbsen]

First. - You use the term "camera roll". To me this signals that you are only using your iPhone to store photos. So you are not using iCloud synchronisation of those photos. (Because then you would not have a "camera roll" term on your iPhone.) And since you are not using iCloud synchronization you probably do not have a Mac.

Apple Photos is designed as a "database" solution. That means that all photos are in the same folder, and only in that folder. It is in what you call the general album. And no matter how you organize the photo will remain in that folder. Nothing can be done about that. (And it is pretty smart once you get to understand this and more so if you also have a Mac or an iPad and use iCloud to synchronize photos between devices.)

When you manually create folders and "move" the photos to the various folders you are not really moving the photo. You are simply working with "links" to the one and only photo in the general folder ("all photos"). Like with a music playlist.

This means among other things that you can place a photo in more than one of your manually created folders. (This can me meaningful in some situations). And when you delete a photo in a manual folder you do not delete the actual photo (which stays in the general folder). You simply delete a link. The same goes for any manual folder you delete. There is no harm to the actual photo.

If you want to delete the actual photo it has to be done from the general folder, and you will be asked if you actually want to delete this photo.

So things work as they are designed to do. One just have to know how it was designed, of course.

But. Having 50k photos on an iPhone and not using iCloud as an external backup is risky. Remember that when you only store your photos (and other data) locally you risk losing everything from one single incident. Burglary, robbery, fire, hurricane flodding (or bombs if you live in a place like Ukraine).

Presumably all those many photos would be valuable enough to you to spend the cost of having enough storage in iCloud to ensure that you do not lose them.

 

[BBDDVV]

Very well said @TorbenIbsen!

What the original poster seems to be missing is an option of the 'general folder' to 'hide picture/movie when used in a manually created folder', in order to help him sort out pictures?
That could work (not) when the user has to fully understand this, and realizes that deleting a picture in a folder (and that picture is not part of an other folder) i.e. delete the last link, would cause the picture to re-appear in the 'general folder'... However, I guess most people would try to manually move a picture back to the 'general folder' thinking they're actually working with the picture file itself... Then that action could internally also just delete that last link and have the picture re-appear in the general folder that way. But what would then happen when that picture is still linked in another folder? Not allow the move to 'general folder', or have the operation fail and inform the user the picture is still used elsewhere, or do allow the picture to appear in the general folder while it's still used in another folder meaning that this new option to 'hide picture when used in a manually created folder' is no longer honored for this picture? None of these would good solutions...

When you want to work with files, use a file system as @bransoj mentions, otherwise enjoy the benefits of the way it works in Photos ;-)

 

[TechNutt]

Not sure if it will suit you but i use OneDrive to back them up with its auto upload feature. It backs them all up to a Camera Roll folder on OneDrive and then every so often i go into OneDrive and sort all the pictures into their relevant folders and once i know its all done i clear out the default location in Photos on my phone. To get 50,000 photos you may need a fair bit of space but it would work.

I managed to build up 30gb of storage on OneDrive for free as you get 15gb to start with and then 15gb when you turn on the camera back up. Currently i've got 12.5gb of photos which appears to be just shy of 4000 photos as i delete plenty as well instead of keeping everything along with about 1.5gb of other stuff so still plenty of room to go. There are subscriptions to get more space.

Once they've uploaded you can either use the web version or sync the folder to your PC\Mac with the app to do the organising if its easier. You can also share folders with others if you need to

Thank you for the considerate response. I appreciate your advice and will look into the OneDrive option. I know Google had unlimited storage for photos not too long ago, and even Amazon Prime members have storage options, but there is a huge reason I buy Apple products and not Google/Alexa devices. OneDrive is Microsoft, I believe, so not much better in the privacy arena. Still, I’ll research that option.

Do you download the sorted pics back to your phone because they still need to be accessible there or through iCloud? My goal is to have quick and snappy access to any pic in my giant photos database on my phone, but they have to get sorted first. That’s the tedious part. Honestly, it shouldn’t be this difficult.

 

[TechNutt]

First. - You use the term "camera roll". To me this signals that you are only using your iPhone to store photos. So you are not using iCloud synchronisation of those photos. (Because then you would not have a "camera roll" term on your iPhone.) And since you are not using iCloud synchronization you probably do not have a Mac.

Apple Photos is designed as a "database" solution. That means that all photos are in the same folder, and only in that folder. It is in what you call the general album. And no matter how you organize the photo will remain in that folder. Nothing can be done about that. (And it is pretty smart once you get to understand this and more so if you also have a Mac or an iPad and use iCloud to synchronize photos between devices.)

When you manually create folders and "move" the photos to the various folders you are not really moving the photo. You are simply working with "links" to the one and only photo in the general folder ("all photos"). Like with a music playlist.

This means among other things that you can place a photo in more than one of your manually created folders. (This can me meaningful in some situations). And when you delete a photo in a manual folder you do not delete the actual photo (which stays in the general folder). You simply delete a link. The same goes for any manual folder you delete. There is no harm to the actual photo.

If you want to delete the actual photo it has to be done from the general folder, and you will be asked if you actually want to delete this photo.

So things work as they are designed to do. One just have to know how it was designed, of course.

But. Having 50k photos on an iPhone and not using iCloud as an external backup is risky. Remember that when you only store your photos (and other data) locally you risk losing everything from one single incident. Burglary, robbery, fire, hurricane flodding (or bombs if you live in a place like Ukraine).

Presumably all those many photos would be valuable enough to you to spend the cost of having enough storage in iCloud to ensure that you do not lose them.

Wowsers!! Thanks for the lengthy and thorough explanation of the Photos system. Most of that I knew, but you helped me to get a better understanding of it. Plus, it will be of great help for others!

Well, I do have iCloud. It’s actually saved my butt recently when both my iPad and my iPhone were running out of local storage space. Both devices started glitching, almost simultaneously, and Apple had to do a hard reset on my phone. In the past, Apple uploaded content onto their servers and then downloaded back onto the device, but they no longer utilize such methods. I panicked and thought I lost it all. Some things I did lose like Android messages, but most were saved thanks to iCloud. The instructor videos were my main concern. Thankfully all were saved!

The main reason I got into that mess was because of pic hoarding, aka digital clutter, which is what I’m trying to get a handle on now. Even syncing iPhoto with iCloud on all devices (my phone and ipad) just caused a jam up on my tablet which has less memory space. I had to switch off syncing of Photos in order to keep from overloading it earlier. I also switched off syncing of Safari, and my iPad is working so much better now after clearing cache, history, and cookies.

So back to the original inquiry. I have important stuff and also insignificant things, but I can’t see what’s what until I figure out a good sorting method. As is, creating a folder, putting a linked copy of a photo file into that folder, but still seeing it in the album ‘pile’ doesn’t help me much since I don’t see which photos have been looked at and sorted. That’s my frustration with all of this.

In the not-so-distant future, my plan is to get an M2 Mac Studio. So maybe that will help and I can deal with it more effectively then. I don’t know. Currently the only other Mac device I own is a Intel PowerBook Pro from 2006. Absolutely ZERO idea what to do with it, but I assume it works even running the outdated Snow Leopard OS. Yes, I’m in big need of an upgrade 😂

 

[adrianlondon]

I export my photos from (iCloud sync'd) Photos on my mac to the folders I want them in.

While travelling, I create albums on my phone and move photos into them. On my laptop I then have some smart albums, one of which is "not in any album" which only shows those photos I've not yet dragged into am album. Once that smart folder is empty I can then export each album into a corresponding folder on my laptop.

I also have smart albums (this is all done on MacOS; iOS doesn't offer anything like this without 3rd party apps) for "no GPS" and "no title", to ensure I have the EXIF data I need for each photo before I export it.

exiftool (MacOS) is also a very useful program to have.

 

[TechNutt]

Very well said @TorbenIbsen!

It really was! 🫡

What the original poster seems to be missing is an option of the 'general folder' to 'hide picture/movie when used in a manually created folder', in order to help him sort out pictures?

That is EXACTLY the toggle option I seek!

That could work (not) when the user has to fully understand this, and realizes that deleting a picture in a folder (and that picture is not part of an other folder) i.e. delete the last link, would cause the picture to re-appear in the 'general folder'... However, I guess most people would try to manually move a picture back to the 'general folder' thinking they're actually working with the picture file itself... Then that action could internally also just delete that last link and have the picture re-appear in the general folder that way. But what would then happen when that picture is still linked in another folder? Not allow the move to 'general folder', or have the operation fail and inform the user the picture is still used elsewhere, or do allow the picture to appear in the general folder while it's still used in another folder meaning that this new option to 'hide picture when used in a manually created folder' is no longer honored for this picture? None of these would good solutions...

When you want to work with files, use a file system as @bransoj mentions, otherwise enjoy the benefits of the way it works in Photos ;-)

As in the perfect example used above, the photo is treated as a playlist. I want to sort the songs and not have a million tracks not knowing if they’re sorted into their respective music genres. It doesn’t have to move, but it does need to be invisible. If the pics are in organized photos, I couldn’t care less if the pics, songs or videos are grouped under the general library. I just don’t want to see it if it’s in a sorted file.

Just imagine if you couldn’t search alphabetically for Bob Marley in a dump truck of song listings. That would be hell. But I can place it in Reggae and find it easily there. Would I go back to my general song album and scroll endlessly through 50k tracks for it? Nope!

 

[bransoj]

Thank you for the considerate response. I appreciate your advice and will look into the OneDrive option. I know Google had unlimited storage for photos not too long ago, and even Amazon Prime members have storage options, but there is a huge reason I buy Apple products and not Google/Alexa devices. OneDrive is Microsoft, I believe, so not much better in the privacy arena. Still, I’ll research that option.

Do you download the sorted pics back to your phone because they still need to be accessible there or through iCloud? My goal is to have quick and snappy access to any pic in my giant photos database on my phone, but they have to get sorted first. That’s the tedious part. Honestly, it shouldn’t be this difficult.

Any old photo i want to get at i can do either via the OneDrive app on my phone\ipad\other device, via the OneDrive website on any internet connected PC\Mac\device or i have OneDrive synced to my PC with the OneDrive application which means they show in the relevant folders on my PC as well. Its not like scrolling through them directly on your phone as it will need to download the photo but providing you have a decent connection be it Wifi\Wired or Mobile data its pretty quick. I think there is an option on the app etc as well to make the file available offline should you want to.

 

[contacos]

Just adding my two cent but Apple really needs to make it easier to sort photos. I have an Android device from work and I love how you can easily tell, which photos have already been sorted into folders and also tells you WHICH folders these photos are already part of. The thumbnails in the "camera roll" have little icon in the corner to tell you that these are already sorted

 

[southnorth]

I try to keep it simple but robust

- I use iCloud Photos on my Mac, iPhone and iPad with paid additional storage.
- On Photos on my Mac, I ensure my photos are downloaded in full resolution ( the default is partial download). I copy from Photos and organise them into folders on my Mac depending on activity, holiday etc. I do this at least weekly.
- I use Time Machine to back everything up on my Mac. I have 3 disks which I rotate
- The folders which I create on my Mac, I copy these into iCloud Drive to backup. I pay for the storage upgrade.

It’s important to note iCloud Photos is not strictly a backup service, it’s a synchronisation service. Delete a photo from one device, it disappears from them all.

When planning on how to manage your photos, it’s important to think about the worst case disaster scenario and how you will protect and recover from that. A mix of local and cloud storage is the best approach, at least for me. You also need do your copying and backing up regularly.

 

[TechNutt]

Any old photo i want to get at i can do either via the OneDrive app on my phone\ipad\other device, via the OneDrive website on any internet connected PC\Mac\device or i have OneDrive synced to my PC with the OneDrive application which means they show in the relevant folders on my PC as well. Its not like scrolling through them directly on your phone as it will need to download the photo but providing you have a decent connection be it Wifi\Wired or Mobile data its pretty quick. I think there is an option on the app etc as well to make the file available offline should you want to.

This method sounds to me like the best workaround, tbh, so thanks for sharing. I’m going to do all that I can to provide feedback to Apple to make improvements in this specific area in the Photos app. In the meantime, more organization and less digital clutter is the goal for 2023. Maybe macOS Ventura will aid me (us) in these at-home projects because sorting can be tedious and cumbersome using only our mobile devices to accomplish such tasks 🫤

 

[TechNutt]

I try to keep it simple but robust

- I use iCloud Photos on my Mac, iPhone and iPad with paid additional storage.
- On Photos on my Mac, I ensure my photos are downloaded in full resolution ( the default is partial download). I copy from Photos and organise them into folders on my Mac depending on activity, holiday etc. I do this at least weekly.
- I use Time Machine to back everything up on my Mac. I have 3 disks which I rotate
- The folders which I create on my Mac, I copy these into iCloud Drive to backup. I pay for the storage upgrade.

It’s important to note iCloud Photos is not strictly a backup service, it’s a synchronisation service. Delete a photo from one device, it disappears from them all.

When planning on how to manage your photos, it’s important to think about the worst case disaster scenario and how you will protect and recover from that. A mix of local and cloud storage is the best approach, at least for me. You also need do your copying and backing up regularly.

I appreciate you chiming in. Since I currently don’t have a compatible Mac at home (I have an Intel PB Pro from 2006 that runs Snow Leopard), I am not able to sort on a computer. The plan is to get an M2 Studio for next year. Then maybe I can work some magic with this sorting mess, unless an iOS update in the Photos app gets improvements for sorting tasks.

I have iCloud storage, but RAID backups will be the next goal. Slowly but surely, I’ll reach this mountaintop.

 

[turbochgd]

Also adding my two cents as I don’t have a solution that would sort things for you automatically. But I’ve been using an app called “MyPics” that is superb for sorting into folders, sub-folders, tagging, etc. It’s really made a difference for me as I take a lot of photos but the native app was really driving me crazy trying to locate anything.

You share your pics to “MyPics” then delete them from your default folder or as you wish.

 

[adrianlondon]

I used Hashphotos on my phone for a while (the free option) and that had a "not in any album" smart folder feature. Useful to ensure you've put every photo in an album. This was a couple of years ago though; I don't know how the app's evolved since.

‎HashPhotos

‎HashPhotos is the ultimate alternative to the Photos app. HashPhotos is the essential photo app for your iPhone/iPad, designed to revolutionize the way you manage, edit, and bring your memories to life. Whether you're snapping everyday moments or a dedicated photographer, HashPhotos is your...

apps.apple.com

 

[TechNutt]

Also adding my two cents as I don’t have a solution that would sort things for you automatically. But I’ve been using an app called “MyPics” that is superb for sorting into folders, sub-folders, tagging, etc. It’s really made a difference for me as I take a lot of photos but the native app was really driving me crazy trying to locate anything.

You share your pics to “MyPics” then delete them from your default folder or as you wish.

Yes, moving the needle with solutions and workarounds! 🙌 Appreciate it! I looked into MyPics and they appear to be subscription-based, which is fine. It also seems to have identifier tracking specifically tied to users’ phones. I get the notion to have tracking embedding if the app is free but not if I pay for it. That sort of thing really rubs me wrong. Still, I thank you for the suggestion because that is the functionality I’m looking for in a photos app.

 

[TechNutt]

I used Hashphotos on my phone for a while (the free option) and that had a "not in any album" smart folder feature. Useful to ensure you've put every photo in an album. This was a couple of years ago though; I don't know how the app's evolved since.

‎HashPhotos

‎HashPhotos is the ultimate alternative to the Photos app. HashPhotos is the essential photo app for your iPhone/iPad, designed to revolutionize the way you manage, edit, and bring your memories to life. Whether you're snapping everyday moments or a dedicated photographer, HashPhotos is your...

apps.apple.com

Thanks for this suggestion. The reviews are very positive. I’m going to dive deeper into this option since I don’t see specific identity tracking to the user. So this may work out well depending on functionality. Yes, privacy matters to me.

 

[DavidQPR]

I used Hashphotos on my phone for a while (the free option) and that had a "not in any album" smart folder feature. Useful to ensure you've put every photo in an album. This was a couple of years ago though; I don't know how the app's evolved since.

‎HashPhotos

‎HashPhotos is the ultimate alternative to the Photos app. HashPhotos is the essential photo app for your iPhone/iPad, designed to revolutionize the way you manage, edit, and bring your memories to life. Whether you're snapping everyday moments or a dedicated photographer, HashPhotos is your...

apps.apple.com

I currently use HashPhoto and it still has an “unsorted“ tab. It is indeed very useful to show what isn’t in a folder.