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Almost certainly that's the primary reason for this. So many people in Europe use this because it's easy to cross national borders between different national telecoms providers.
Ahem ever since GSM was introduced between 1991-1993 that was already possible. WhatsApp has nothing to do with that at all. It operates as an application, and centralised one that is not part of the standard of communciation. It has nothing to do with that.
 
"Hidden clauses" are not a thing on iOS. If an app wants access to user data, you're going to get a popup explaining exactly what it's asking for with some very clear buttons. Don't allow access if you don't trust the app.
A call app can access many things
Core Functionality Access:
  • Microphone: To enable audio during calls.

  • Phone: To make and receive calls, and potentially access call history and phone number.

  • Contacts: To display caller ID and allow you to call from your contact list.

  • Location: Some apps might request location access for features like showing nearby places during calls or emergency services.
Potentially Sensitive Information:
  • SMS: Access to send and receive SMS messages.

  • Camera: Some apps might request camera access, potentially for video calls or to share photos during calls.

  • Storage: Apps might request access to read and write files, including photos and other media.

  • Call logs: Apps might be able to read your call history.

  • Phone state: Apps might be able to determine the status of your phone (e.g., if it's in use, idle, or ringing).

  • Rerouting calls: Some apps may have the ability to reroute outgoing calls.
  • If you want to call a number from another app like safari or hotels.com, you may have to give access to the entire system!
 
Would love to see cellular calls and SMS on iPad with esim. Not sure whether that will ever happen.
 
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That is to bring jobs back to the US and to prevent Apple from engaging in legal corporate tax evasion by outsourcing overseas. The US isn’t forcing Apple to build their own products a certain way so that Apple’s competitors can benefit from state-sponsored interference in a free market.
And the EU is trying to protect consumers and curate an environment that promotes competition and ensure the sector thrives. That too will create jobs and drive growth.

The intentions may be different but overreach is overreach and no one is more guilty of that the current US administration.
 
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BiteSMS was the first and only app for "smartSMS" on mobile devices, before iMessage, WhatsApp, etc. But in 2025, I don't wish for any more fragmentation. I just ask for a way to let everyone use the app they prefer that works with others, and that's it. (Something like emails has been doing since the very beginning.)
 
Calling app metadata is already handled by the carriers. They have been selling and bartering the data for years, and there is nothing Apple can do about it.
They are easier to take to court. And easier to handle individually. The Carriers are big targets and can be held responsible if they abuse their power
 
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Just like they blamed Microsoft for doing what the EU regulators forced them to do, thus creating the conditions for CrowdStrike.
Oh we’re still waiting on EU blaming Microsoft any month now…
 
Like that’s literally stopped anyone. And even if they proudly proclaim it, then my data is being used against my permission when my friend downloads the app.

EU absolutely doesn’t understand what it’s doing. Learned absolutely nothing from Crowdstrike
Such luck you have that you can sue them, the government can sue them, and Apple can even sue them for violating privacy laws.

And Google would be fined billions upon billions for violating millions of users rights and breaking all the ToS and license agreements.
 
Doesn’t stop the Privacy issues at all. This should definitely be fought in the courts. WhatsApp can already be used as default calling & messaging app on iOS
Please spearheads this entire class action lawsuits. Don’t just talk the talk. Walk the walk.
And btw, I support this change.
 
Everything else can be argued the same way. Yes, that includes games and many other apps.
You should be sharing your Call information, metadata, contacts to everyone if you think games and other categories of apps are the same privacy wise. This has happened to Millions on Android! I don’t think anyone of them would feel the same way
 
You should be sharing your Call information, metadata, contacts to everyone if you think games and other categories of apps are the same privacy wise. This has happened to Millions on Android! I don’t think anyone of them would feel the same way
So? Games often asks you to create an account. Yes Apple does have feature to hide your real email before creating an account but still. I reluctantly agree that game is of lower risk category but Apple doesn’t have to make third party calling and sms apps feature equivalent to their first party counterparts either. Look at third party keyboard that got introduced in iOS 8 or 9 and even today they are still inferior to iOS built in ones in terms of system integration and such.

I get that you want to argue similar demands open the floodgates. Look at how hard Apple is to geofence the whole EU thing. And, Apple will never do those things to US iPhone. With EU experience, later on if another country hits with the same demand Apple can adapt quickly. Not a bad thing imo.
 
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A call app can access many things
Core Functionality Access:
  • Microphone: To enable audio during calls.

  • Phone: To make and receive calls, and potentially access call history and phone number.

  • Contacts: To display caller ID and allow you to call from your contact list.

  • Location: Some apps might request location access for features like showing nearby places during calls or emergency services.
Potentially Sensitive Information:
  • SMS: Access to send and receive SMS messages.

  • Camera: Some apps might request camera access, potentially for video calls or to share photos during calls.

  • Storage: Apps might request access to read and write files, including photos and other media.

  • Call logs: Apps might be able to read your call history.

  • Phone state: Apps might be able to determine the status of your phone (e.g., if it's in use, idle, or ringing).

  • Rerouting calls: Some apps may have the ability to reroute outgoing calls.
  • If you want to call a number from another app like safari or hotels.com, you may have to give access to the entire system!
Microphone: none-phone app also needs it so nothing new.

Phone: what? The result could simply be a new kit or a group of API. Besides, Apple can design the API in such a way that all third party apps will funnel their call records to Apple phone app but third party apps can’t retrieve previous phone logs.

Contacts: even teams ask for contacts, so does WhatsApp so nothing new.

Location: maps ask for location. Camera app asks for location to geotag your photos. Even Australian lottery app asks for location to determine whether user is actually in Australia. Nothing really new. Besides, Apple phone app doesn’t appear to log call location as far as we know, so it is unlikely third party apps will get location access.

SMS: Apple can make it so all messages funnel into built in app but doesn’t share existing data to third parties.

Camera: so many apps these days ask for camera even if the purpose is just for verifying your identity. Built in message app can also use camera and you don’t need to grant it access to take photos within.

Storage: third party file managers have been able to do this for years. Plus restricted access may still be a thing. Let’s not forget that built in message app has full access to all necessary features without you to “provide consent”.

Call logs: Apple unlikely will allow full access to these things.

Phone state: does this mean anything to “personal sensitive information”? Phone state alone doesn’t mean anything. I can put my phone into my drawer and go to work. Doesn’t mean I’m free.

Rerouting calls: isn’t this more of a carrier thing than iPhone and iOS thing? Whatever call would still have to go through carrier and their infrastructure.

Give access to the entire system? What? Are you expecting a call app would tamper with system files? Or upload all your photos while you are using it? It’s a shame the feature to turn off data access of specific app is a feature only available in iPhone sold in China.
 
I have some sad news for you about the current privacy level you may think you are currently enjoying.
Anything artificial can be interpreted in any way whoever interpreting it sees fit. Apple advocates privacy doesn’t mean they care. It means doing so benefits them financially. Besides, you give up privacy by using government services. That doesn’t mean we don’t need to protect them. It just means that people may have been deceived.
 
I have some sad news for you about the current privacy level you may think you are currently enjoying.
I know enough. But that doesn’t mean random Developers without a Court order should get access to the Phone Metadata of iOS users in EU.
Obviously specific carriers or Intelligence Agencies with Zero Day exploits can get access but the scope is much smaller on that. And the carriers are huge targets that can be sued in courts
 
So? Games often asks you to create an account. Yes Apple does have feature to hide your real email before creating an account but still. I reluctantly agree that game is of lower risk category but Apple doesn’t have to make third party calling and sms apps feature equivalent to their first party counterparts either. Look at third party keyboard that got introduced in iOS 8 or 9 and even today they are still inferior to iOS built in ones in terms of system integration and such.

I get that you want to argue similar demands open the floodgates. Look at how hard Apple is to geofence the whole EU thing. And, Apple will never do those things to US iPhone. With EU experience, later on if another country hits with the same demand Apple can adapt quickly. Not a bad thing imo.
The Keyboard thing is pretty straightforward. Apple makes it clear in Settings that the Developer can get access to whatever you type. But some Keyboards have unique features that people like that are not on built in ones. I like with the fact that the 3rd Party calling apps are restricted to EU and EU developers. So once the Phone metadata gets leaked from EU users Apple can shut down the Dev certificate and blame the EU for their privacy invasive policies
 
The Keyboard thing is pretty straightforward. Apple makes it clear in Settings that the Developer can get access to whatever you type. But some Keyboards have unique features that people like that are not on built in ones. I like with the fact that the 3rd Party calling apps are restricted to EU and EU developers. So once the Phone metadata gets leaked from EU users Apple can shut down the Dev certificate and blame the EU for their privacy invasive policies
You think nefarious indie developer John is going to create a phone app which is going to dominate iPhones in the EU to such an extent that all the data he can gather will be enough for him to sell to whomever and create a scenario where the EU would be classed as privacy invasive.

The reality is that phone companies already have all the data from all the phones readily available, most of the time already sold or at least leaked, and always open to LE or hackers.

I think you should step back a bit and just think about it. After all, you personally don’t even need to do it and it changes nothing for you like that.
 
You think nefarious indie developer John is going to create a phone app which is going to dominate iPhones in the EU to such an extent that all the data he can gather will be enough for him to sell to whomever and create a scenario where the EU would be classed as privacy invasive.

The reality is that phone companies already have all the data from all the phones readily available, most of the time already sold or at least leaked, and always open to LE or hackers.

I think you should step back a bit and just think about it. After all, you personally don’t even need to do it and it changes nothing for you like that.
I just don’t want to see the problem get even worse. People can sue the carriers and they are easy targets, but John isn’t. This has been a problem on Android for Years!
 
I just don’t want to see the problem get even worse. People can sue the carriers and they are easy targets, but John isn’t. This has been a problem on Android for Years!
I use Android as well as iOS and it’s never been an issue for me nor anyone I know. Rather, people use different dialling apps to increase privacy from Google. That’s a thing on iOS too. Apple are privacy orientated it’s true, except from themselves. Some people want a phone that’s private only for the user, with no other entity collecting information.
The only phone OS close to this at the moment is GrapheneOS. iOS is a promising second if only it was possibly to remove Apple from some of the equation.
Steps like these in the op are promising to allow this.
Best thing? It only has to change if you want to change it. That’s why I don’t get all the angst over everything all the time. If you don’t want to do it, just don’t do it!
 
I use Android as well as iOS and it’s never been an issue for me nor anyone I know. Rather, people use different dialling apps to increase privacy from Google. That’s a thing on iOS too. Apple are privacy orientated it’s true, except from themselves. Some people want a phone that’s private only for the user, with no other entity collecting information.
The only phone OS close to this at the moment is GrapheneOS. iOS is a promising second if only it was possibly to remove Apple from some of the equation.
Steps like these in the op are promising to allow this.
Best thing? It only has to change if you want to change it. That’s why I don’t get all the angst over everything all the time. If you don’t want to do it, just don’t do it!
You can disable Apple analytics too. And if you are paranoid enough disable all connections to Apples servers using a VPN config. Apple just collects enough to do fraud detection
 
You can disable Apple analytics too. And if you are paranoid enough disable all connections to Apples servers using a VPN config. Apple just collects enough to do fraud detection
A vpn does nothing of the sort regarding connecting to Apples servers. Anyway it’s off topic and besides the point. I’m simply stating that just because you dont see the need or a want to change an aspect of the device, such as the default calling app, it doesn’t mean that there are no needs or wants in existence.
 
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A vpn does nothing of the sort regarding connecting to Apples servers. Anyway it’s off topic and besides the point. I’m simply stating that just because you dont see the need or a want to change an aspect of the device, such as the default calling app, it doesn’t mean that there are no needs or wants in existence.
You can configure a VPN to disable connections to Apples servers. I disagree with you on 3rd party Calling apps getting Phone metadata
 
Ahem ever since GSM was introduced between 1991-1993 that was already possible. WhatsApp has nothing to do with that at all. It operates as an application, and centralised one that is not part of the standard of communciation. It has nothing to do with that.
Yes, it was possible. But carriers in each country were able to charge roaming fees until 2017 (with a transition period before) for both calls and SMS. And cross-border calls and SMS also incurred a surcharge.

What's App provided a free alternative because it allowed use of data instead of carrier networks for any cross-border activity.
 
Lmao. I'm advocating that others should be able to make their own choices, with options that you are free to use or ignore, as aligns with the rules of the region they live in. If you want to keep trying to twist my words and misrepresent my point I'm just going to go ahead and hit Ignore. I'm trying to engage with your points, but you seem set on the idea that I'm unable to understand my own argument.

I absolutely think you do understand your own argument. You are just incapable of accepting that it is weak. You are advocating options being taken away from me. You have the system you want with all the options for privacy violations, Trojan horses, etc. It is called Android. It is the market leader in the EU.

I want to use Apple’s closed system. Apple differentiates its product offering by offering a closed system with privacy core to its design and implementation. I don’t want it opened up, which by necessity changes its design and implementation. I don’t want it left up to me to avoid those aspects of the system that will compromise my privacy.

You want to take the option of using a closed system away from me. Your insistence that you only want to provide options is mistaken at best because a) you take an option away from me, and b) ignores the fact that the “options” you advocate are already available through Android.
 
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