iOS 4.3.3 Coming Soon to Address Location Tracking Bugs

[BC2009]

Oh the conspiracies!!!!

As a software developer, the explanation that Apple gave seems far more plausible than "they are tracking your every move".

It makes total sense to keep a cache of cell tower positions to speed up positioning through trilateration. It also makes sense for Apple to maintain this as a crowd-sourced database and download part of it to your phone. Further, it makes sense for a developer to make an arbitrary decision to say "let's make the cache size 2MB -- that's smaller than a single song". Finally, it makes sense for QA to miss this since the file is not readily visible through the user interface. A very good article on this is here.

I for one cannot remember a single iAd ever popping that was more appropriate based on my location (e.g.: a restaurant ad showing up when I was near a location for that restaurant chain). I seriously doubt that Apple cares where I have been for the past year -- especially with the huge degree of error that trilateration offers. But they definitely care about the crowd-sourced data to understand what regions iPhones are being used most heavily.

Certainly, if Apple wanted to record my personal position it would make MUCH MUCH MUCH more sense for their servers to simply record the query my phone makes to obtain the portion of the crowd-sourced database that my phone wants to cache. That query could easily include a more exact GPS position (i.e.: give me the part of the cache near this location). It could also include a phone identifier. Of course, a timestamp could be associated with the query. They could keep the information on their own servers where I would NEVER EVER see it and they could easily access it. Keeping it on my phone simply does not make sense if Apple really wanted this information -- it makes it easy for me to find and it is of less use to Apple that way.

I wonder if Google records my Wifi/GPS location on Google Maps or what locations I searched when using Google Maps. Hopefully, my identity is anonymized before the query is sent to Google for what part of the Maps database to pull down and cache. But again, it would be really easy for anybody to do this on the server side.

 

[err404]

It's taking a lot on trust to just click 'Accept' and most of the time it's OK... But check out the South Park episode for how it could go wrong..!

The location collection opt-in is NOT simply tied to agreeing to your TOS/EULA. It's a fairly clear and concise dialog and entirely optional:

 

[airforce1]

Nothing is being removed they are changing the cache limit. And do you really think Apple is tracking 120+ million users....

unless you where asleep, every single device was tracked, whether or not Apple themselves collected the info is like asking if the CIA eavesdrops on every single US citizen, answer is no, but the history of the devices unique ID, locations can help connect via remote desktop and collect political views, which was what Apple is really been questioned about by Congress,

Who ever claims they have nothing to hide is full of BS, its not that you have anything to hide, access to the Unique Device ID can also help the perpetrator remotely use the device, internet, access bank and other private information with out the users knowledge, and they paid allot for the device unlike some of the free Social networking services who took advantages of bugs in the past until it was proven intentional to fish info too,

So until you accomplices prove what exactly was the purpose behind this with hardware and transitional data readings no one can say Apple is innocent, as it is they are due in court over year now and just mentioned today that they will respond to this, Maybe Steve was not sick after all and had a ball listening to Gates or Microsoft, or wall street taking the hike along with them.

 

[airforce1]

The location collection opt-in is NOT simply tied to agreeing to your TOS/EULA. It's a fairly clear and concise dialog and entirely optional:

Image

when was this implemented before last year or recently, the lawsuit filed over collecting emails and political views as well as location data was a year ago, only recently they have to respond over the allegations.

If you cant show the date your full of BS, then again your also free to be naive and excused if crimes where committed by apple


remember during last year there where many financial issues, companies collapsed, info like this which apple got hold off illegaly could of been the reason

 

[err404]

every single device was tracked...

Only if you opted-in. As for the consolidated DB, I think need to read up on what the DB is for. Apple sends you the information, not the other way around.

Let's suppose Apple did want to track you... Why would they collect the cell cache? It would be easier for then to just log your request from their system.

 

[samcraig]

Oh the conspiracies!!!!

As a software developer, the explanation that Apple gave seems far more plausible than "they are tracking your every move".

It makes total sense to keep a cache of cell tower positions to speed up positioning through trilateration. It also makes sense for Apple to maintain this as a crowd-sourced database and download part of it to your phone. Further, it makes sense for a developer to make an arbitrary decision to say "let's make the cache size 2MB -- that's smaller than a single song". Finally, it makes sense for QA to miss this since the file is not readily visible through the user interface. A very good article on this is here.

Oooh. You're a software developer. That makes you an expert.

Except - as someone who is surround by IT professionals - many of which create systems that are governed by strict compliance issues - ALL of them have stated that 2MB is ridiculous for a cache of the intended purpose. And that QA could have missed this - but the fact that they did is really bad.

Look - defend Apple all you want. Don't really care. At the end of the day - a switch that is supposed to turn something off should turn something off. I know it. You know it. And Apple knows it - which is why they are (for WHATEVER reason) making the switch work correctly. End of story.

P.S. - Since Apple does great marketing and pr spin (my profession) - while I don't buy all the conspiracy theories at all - but neither do I "trust" Apple's altruism nor their rhetoric just because "they say so."

 

[css1323]

I know I'm late in this thread.. but, the supposed battery life improvements, is that simply the result of iOS no longer tracking so much information? Or is it the result of real unrelated improvements?

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Oooh. You're a software developer. That makes you an expert.

Except - as someone who is surround by IT professionals - many of which create systems that are governed by strict compliance issues - ALL of them have stated that 2MB is ridiculous for a cache of the intended purpose. And that QA could have missed this - but the fact that they did is really bad.

Look - defend Apple all you want. Don't really care. At the end of the day - a switch that is supposed to turn something off should turn something off. I know it. You know it. And Apple knows it - which is why they are (for WHATEVER reason) making the switch work correctly. End of story.

P.S. - Since Apple does great marketing and pr spin (my profession) - while I don't buy all the conspiracy theories at all - but neither do I "trust" Apple's altruism nor their rhetoric just because "they say so."

Exactly.

If the people claiming this is a non issue are serious then they should all email Steve and tell him to stop addressing it.

I think the problem here is that many on this board cannot distinguish between trolls blindly trying to stir stuff up on an Apple forum and non-trolls discussing a legitimate issue. People need to learn how to separate the two and ignore the trolls if they try to pile onto an unfavorable discussion of Apple on a particular issue.

 

[airforce1]

Certainly, if Apple wanted to record my personal position it would make MUCH MUCH MUCH more sense for their servers to simply record the query my phone makes to obtain the portion of the crowd-sourced database that my phone wants to cache. That query could easily include a more exact GPS position (i.e.: give me the part of the cache near this location).

I wonder if Google records my Wifi/GPS location on Google Maps or what locations I searched when using Google Maps. Hopefully, my identity is anonymized before the query is sent to Google for what part of the Maps database to pull down and cache. But again, it would be really easy for anybody to do this on the server side.

Apple used this tacky process you described becuase they obviously wanted to CONCEAL it from users, they certainly would not want the FEDS, Washinton and other agencies to know that they where doing it to them, whether or not they picked certain individuals is a matter Congress will settle, im sure if a mafia or cartel had this type of access they would also monitor wall street and join in on the scams.

And yeah Google does record but they at least give you the option to turn it off which makesd them liable if they intrude, Apple uses suckers and propaganda on forums and BS to cover up their sweatshop companies and 3rd party developers who probably helped them spy on competitors.

 

[err404]

If you cant show the date your full of BS, then again your also free to be naive and excused if crimes where committed by apple.

The opt-out has been around since at least last summer. I believe it was introduced with iOS4.
Also what crime are you referring to? Or are you just assuming a crime was commited?

 

[spazzcat]

unless you where asleep, every single device was tracked, whether or not Apple themselves collected the info is like asking if the CIA eavesdrops on every single US citizen, answer is no, but the history of the devices unique ID, locations can help connect via remote desktop and collect political views, which was what Apple is really been questioned about by Congress,

Who ever claims they have nothing to hide is full of BS, its not that you have anything to hide, access to the Unique Device ID can also help the perpetrator remotely use the device, internet, access bank and other private information with out the users knowledge, and they paid allot for the device unlike some of the free Social networking services who took advantages of bugs in the past until it was proven intentional to fish info too,

So until you accomplices prove what exactly was the purpose behind this with hardware and transitional data readings no one can say Apple is innocent, as it is they are due in court over year now and just mentioned today that they will respond to this, Maybe Steve was not sick after all and had a ball listening to Gates or Microsoft, or wall street taking the hike along with them.

Having this information saved on your phone/computer is not the same as being tracked...

 

[spazzcat]

Exactly.

If the people claiming this is a non issue are serious then they should all email Steve and tell him to stop addressing it.

I think the problem here is that many on this board cannot distinguish between trolls blindly trying to stir stuff up on an Apple forum and non-trolls discussing a legitimate issue. People need to learn how to separate the two and ignore the trolls if they try to pile onto an unfavorable discussion of Apple on a particular issue.

The whole thing was blown out of proportion, they had no choice but do somthing thing...

 

[samcraig]

And yeah Google does record but they at least give you the option to turn it off

This is the point. It doesn't matter which side of the coin you're on regarding privacy. Off means off. On means on.

And if this were RIM, MS, Google or anyone else that had an important feature crippled due to QA, no doubt the ones claiming Apple's innocence here (and decrying everyone else has conspiracy theories) would be the ones laughing at, making theories, getting outraged, etc.

It's not a question of giving Apple a free pass. EVERY company should be liable. And consumers have every right to raise questions.

My goodness - there are threads on this board from people who cry about a one pixel shift in a graphic. Or that their app icon is blurry.

Here's a real issue. An important issue. And some people want to just wipe it under the carpet as a "non issue"

 

[airforce1]

Exactly.

If the people claiming this is a non issue are serious then they should all email Steve and tell him to stop addressing it.

I think the problem here is that many on this board cannot distinguish between trolls blindly trying to stir stuff up on an Apple forum and non-trolls discussing a legitimate issue. People need to learn how to separate the two and ignore the trolls if they try to pile onto an unfavorable discussion of Apple on a particular issue.

yes and many of these trolls spend most of their time on apple forums with pro apple views, even bias, as Jobbs said the Tech community failed to educate everyone on what he failed to provide evidence for to show they DID NOT violate privacy laws.

Im sure apple knew they have to pay a fine, now they will just pretend with so called tech trolls on forums that they fixed this, its not over you see, when congress demands a standard on collecting data and to what extent and who then we will see all the data sheets apple is hiding from me and you, until then you and i both could be called trolls for just posting anything here, thats a opinion and propaganda (lie) though

 

[samcraig]

Well I find it funny that people are actually defending something Apple admitted to being a bug. Intentional or not - Location Services was supposed to be user selectable.

That's no conspiracy theory. It's a simple concept that doesn't need Apple to educate anyone on. Even toddlers grasp the concept of on and off.

I also, personally, don't like being talked down to by Jobs/Apple whenever they have a press conference. The whole angle of "oh.. it's our fault for not educating the consumer" is PR crap and deflection.

"It Just Works".... unless it's the location services switch. Whoops

 

[airforce1]

The whole thing was blown out of proportion, they had no choice but do somthing thing...

I agree apple was presented with a lawsuit last year and they still refused to address this until some geeks found the actual BUG, thats way out of line, Apple is LIABLE period,


Now they have privacy matters with tracking, collecting and remote desktop controlling with out users consent.

And

Running a sweatshop company offshore to protect themselves from any human rights violations

having developers use apps to spy on peoples political views, congress loves that one, they still wonder about Obamas Birth Certificate and the wall street hike, this certainly could of helped anyone take advantage.


maybe apple was about to collapse becuase Steve was sick and they got desperate, who knows, liability is probably a fine and handing over the data, money which could of paid fairly to those working over seas for apple living of a 10 bucks a week to make ipads so some take home profit., why not put americans their who pay taxes

 

[ten-oak-druid]

The whole thing was blown out of proportion, they had no choice but do somthing thing...

Well I'm sure Steve Jobs could trot out the explanations given here and point out it is nothing right?

Email him the argument that this is nothing and blown all out of proportion. He might have a news conference.

I hate this because it feels like I am ridiculing Steve Jobs like the trolls that come on here. I am not. The world simply isn't black and white. And that is more the case with corporations than individuals.

 

[airforce1]

Exactly.

If the people claiming this is a non issue are serious then they should all email Steve and tell him to stop addressing it.

I think the problem here is that many on this board cannot distinguish between trolls blindly trying to stir stuff up on an Apple forum and non-trolls discussing a legitimate issue. People need to learn how to separate the two and ignore the trolls if they try to pile onto an unfavorable discussion of Apple on a particular issue.

yes and many of these trolls spend most of their time here, as Jobbs said the Tech community failed to educate everyone on what he failed to provide evidence for to show they DID NOT violate privacy laws.

Im sure apple knew they have to pay a fine, now they will just pretend with so called tech trolls on forums that they fixed this, its not over you see, when congress demands a standard on collecting data and to what extent and who then we will see all the data sheets apple is hiding from me and you, until then you and i both could be called trolls for just posting anything here, thats a opinion and propaganda (lie) though

 

[samcraig]

Well I'm sure Steve Jobs could trot out the explanations given here and point out it is nothing right?

Email him the argument that this is nothing and blown all out of proportion. He might have a news conference.

I hate this because it feels like I am ridiculing Steve Jobs like the trolls that come on here. I am not. The world simply isn't black and white. And that is more the case with corporations than individuals.

Agreed. And just because there are those of us that are being vocal - that doesn't mean we don't like Apple or their products. There's no trolling going on here (from me, for example). And I fully understand that companies (all companies) act in their best interest most of the time.

Many posters here see the world as polarized and you're either "with us" or "against us".

Holding Apple accountable does not mean we are against them. And if you don't understand the semantics of that, then there's little hope in explaining it to you.

 

[dethmaShine]

My only question is:

If there was a study that was conducted some time back [more than 2 months back] and got Apple to investigate the issue seriously, why did Apple wait for another study OR another media non-sense to acknowledge the bugs and report to the consumers?

Why did Apple not rectify the problem before? Did Apple already knew about these features or are they simply getting with this crap by calling them "bugs"?

To be honest, this is probably the first time I'm feeling that Apple was trying to play with the consumers privacy and trust. I think Apple just fooled us.

-deth

 

[SkyStudios]

My only question is:

If there was a study that was conducted some time back [more than 2 months back] and got Apple to investigate the issue seriously, why did Apple wait for another study OR another media non-sense to acknowledge the bugs and report to the consumers?

Why did Apple not rectify the problem before? Did Apple already knew about these features or are they simply getting with this crap by calling them "bugs"?

To be honest, this is probably the first time I'm feeling that Apple was trying to play with the consumers privacy and trust. I think Apple just fooled us.

-deth

a lawsuite was filed a year ago, apple refused to address the problem becuase it was not out in the public as it is now with Congress connecting trails to wall street and who knows why apple collected political views.

According to authorities, Apple uses trolls, some techs even to bury issues posted on forums so they can buy time if many people either give up or simply seem less in number, so if the ratio of complaints are kept low no one notices bugs,

Im not surprised that the FEDS are upset about this, if they had iphones people can track them and all sorts of info is out public or in the wrong hands, makes the wikileeks kids look like angels

 

[toddybody]

Because a huge amount of the reported details on this matter are wrong.
While the method of storing the cell location cache may show poor judgment on Apples part, I don't see any malicious intent. The system is logical implemented and on the surface, cell location data does not appear sensitive enough to justify encryption. It is only after further analysis that potentially sensitive data can be inferred.
Regardless it's good to see it being addressed.

I am glad they are addressing it as well; however...Apple's response to this issue has been somewhat confusing (and begs the question as to why they needed that much data and why it was not encrypted properly). Ill be first to say that it most likely is and was just a dumb move on Apple's behalf...

My greater point was, that folks seem predisposed to trust Apple's decisions on EVERYTHING. I mean, just look at threads on apple's decision not to include specific HW in their systems...no BluRay, no res bump on recent 13 MBP refresh (even though the previous Air has a standard 1400x900 res), poor GPU selection in iMac, Antenna Gate, Apple's disproportioned profit margins...All this is perpetuated and supported by "Apple Fans". The reasons are "Blu Ray is a dying format, and Apple is actually doing us a favor by not including it" (WTF?)... "The 1280x800 screen on my 13MPB is fine, people need to stop whining for things they dont need"..."Wow! they gave the iMac a 5750! Finally some powerful graphics!"..."Youre holding it wrong"..."Mac's cost more cause theyre just so well built". Its like some Apple fans will think of anyway to spin an Apple decision as "they know whats best for us".

Were taking a beating with a smile, then remarking on how wonderful and magical it was.

 

[SkyStudios]

Well I'm sure Steve Jobs could trot out the explanations given here and point out it is nothing right?

Email him the argument that this is nothing and blown all out of proportion. He might have a news conference.

I hate this because it feels like I am ridiculing Steve Jobs like the trolls that come on here. I am not. The world simply isn't black and white. And that is more the case with corporations than individuals.

you want users to wste time emailing him when its a public concern world wide and he already answered with BS


http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/2011/04/25/where-steve-jobs-stood-on-location-privacy-in-2010/

portion of this story

Since Apple is mum at the moment, it’s worth looking back on Apple’s views in the summer of 2010 when the company first started storing this file on people’s phones. The video is above. Here’s a transcript of Jobs’ response: Jobs points out that Apple doesn’t allow apps to get users’ location data without their express permission. Then he says:

Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for in plain English and repeatedly. That’s what it means. I’m an optimist. I believe people are smart. Some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data. That’s what we think.

While Apple users do have the option to turn location services off on their phones, most did not know precisely how their location was being tracked and stored on their phones. Meaning that this statement from Jobs doesn’t track with reality.

 

[djstile]

Isn't it interesting how a seemingly intentional act (active user tracking) changes to a "bug" once it's existence is published in the news media?

 

[nasty devil]

I sure hope this improves battery life