iOS 9 Could Feature 'Home' App For Controlling HomeKit Accessories

[iphone X]

Haha, seriously just posted something about it. Not complaining heavily, but the ability to hide it would be best. I understand I can dump it in a folder, which is what I will do, but why not let me hide it and be able to re add it in my settings when I need the app? Seems like a legitamite solution rather than just saying, "arggg, hate bloatware. Another dang app!!! Come on Apple!!!"

or better yet why can apple put them on the app store and give me the choice if i want them i can download it .

 

[Aeolius]

Just bring Siri voice recognition to the Insteon Hub and I'm in like Flynn! For a more robust home automation experience, I hope Indigo Domotics gets a stab at this!

 

[RogerWilco]

Home automation is a pipe dream because it involves necessarily complex addressing and network management. None of the available hardware is self-configuring - show me one protocol with both security and auto-discovery of new devices. They all require new devices to be logged in and/or trained. No big deal for a garage door opener, but complexity escalates quickly for something like a n-way switch on a stairway light.

How many people do you know that can even set up the advanced features in their wireless routers? Until truly intelligent and secure devices become a reality at low cost, most people will simply ignore it or as the wealthy do now, hire experts and consultants to install the system and manage it for them. How is Apple's initiative going to fix the tangled mess?

 

[Cloudsurfer]

Just because of one folder?

Why is everyone so upset because of a single folder icon?

Stop crying over nothing.

Yeah it's such an irrelevant issue that Apple built it in to the Apple TV. They recognized the issue there, why wouldn't it be an issue on the phone?

I like to customize the home screen the way I want it to, and there are just too many apps I never use.

 

[H2SO4]

Would be nice, but is it really such a big deal? Just make a junk folder, or as I call it Crapple. It's not like these apps take up huge amounts of storage.

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This is precisely why I stayed away from home automation when I remodeled my place. That market is way too fragmented. I don't want a bunch of devices and apps that don't talk to each other. If Apple is successful in making HomeKit a standard, it will be huge.

Is it really such a big deal for Appel to offer a hide or even better a delete option? No need or extra folders.

But fragmentation you’re right about. The competition should be looking at this and making their own universal communication protocol. I don’t know some kind of uPNP framework for mobile devices.

 

[Jsameds]

Anything you don't want, put in a folder.

It really is that simple.

 

[Ed217]

I am struggling to find the Apple stock apps in the usage stats on my iPhone - not sure how much space they are taking up (on a 128GB iPhone 6 ith 86GB free).

I am really hoping for something special from Homekit - I have Hue and Playbub lights (and will be getting a couple of ember lights soon) an would like to have more automation but I am struggling with some requirements:

- Needs to be easy to use from an iPhone and/or Watch
- Needs also to be able to be used by people who don't have an iPhone or Watch
- Needs to incorporate lots of different aspects of the house in a simple way

At the moment just using Hue is not simple. I have 11 bulbs though parts of the house and it is just easier to walk up to a switch to turn them on.

Usage stats for most apps show in Settings->General->Usage->Manage Storage. Most apps take up little space, but a few like iMovie are large.

I use Insteon for light controls. Most the time automatic settings handle all on/off. However iPhone apps can also manually control every light and switch. That will move to the watch once I get one to use. I can also use voice to turn lights on/off, but rarely use that part today.

 

[McGiord]

Home automation is a pipe dream because it involves necessarily complex addressing and network management. None of the available hardware is self-configuring - show me one protocol with both security and auto-discovery of new devices. They all require new devices to be logged in and/or trained. No big deal for a garage door opener, but complexity escalates quickly for something like a n-way switch on a stairway light.

How many people do you know that can even set up the advanced features in their wireless routers? Until truly intelligent and secure devices become a reality at low cost, most people will simply ignore it or as the wealthy do now, hire experts and consultants to install the system and manage it for them. How is Apple's initiative going to fix the tangled mess?

Not many people, and that is one of the key factors in Apple's success. After those whom never wanted to deal with technology set up experienced Apple products they start talking with others like them to "promote" mouth to mouth. I just witness that yesterday at work, 2 ladies were taking extensively about the Apple TV and why one of them should buy one for "streaming", something unprecedented in my 30 years using Apple products.

Certainly there are plenty of options for home automation. I believe this is a good sign as once the right security can be provided by an Apple Hub for HomeKit products then the worries about setup are gone and mass adoption can be real. There are plenty of households with Apple TVs already. If Apple enables the current models to be able to handle it it will be an easy transition.

Now if Apple offers a college dorm home kit, then many of those complaining about may change their opinion about HomeKit.

 

[AleXXXa]

Great. More bloatware i can't remove.
I hope apple will give us the option to remove any app we want.

The only Apple app i use is App Store and sometimes Messages and Phone app when i'm talking to someone who doesn't have Whatsapp or Viber.

 

[ericgtr12]

One day, I'll have HomeKit-compatible devices, but until then, this will just be another app for the "junk" folder.

Forgot that I was jailbroken for a moment. Can easily hide those things!

Yep, I have Belkin, Dropcam & Nest devices in my home and it looks like none of them are compatible. There are simply too many devices out there for this to be practical without some ubiquity.

 

[unplugme71]

There are many apps that do this already and have for some years. My lights are based on sunset and sunrise. Lights in steps or dark areas go on based on motion sensors, in less lit times of the day. Each device can have multiple schedules.

None of this is new, its been around for many years. It will be good if Apple combines it all together in iOS, but hardware support will be the key.

I have a hard time finding an app that allows for conditional triggers and programs. Insteon, Wink, Philips, etc do not do this. IFTT is very limited in conditional triggers and is a third party function to Home Automation.

For example, my front entrance has somewhat of a vestibule where I have a front door that leads to the outside and an interior door that opens up into the house. I have a program that could do the following:

if interior door opens, vestibule light turns on if its sunset+20 minutes, and shuts off when both interior and exterior door senses a close. Lights then immediately turn off once exterior door is closed.

If entering into the house, opening the exterior door turns vestibule AND hallway light on if its sunset + 20 minutes. If interior door is closed, vestibule light turns off. Hallway light turns off after 5 minutes. If interior door is left open, both lights remain on for 5 minutes.

This is what real home automation is btw. Not something like open your app, light turns on. That requires user input.

As far as I know, 3 companies can do this, the ISY994i is one product, albeit costly. And it can only be done from their web interface, not through an app.

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I can do this already with Alarm.com system

You probably pay a monthly fee for this and you probably have to open your iphone or device to make things happen. That's not home automation.

 

[Ed217]

I have a hard time finding an app that allows for conditional triggers and programs. Insteon, Wink, Philips, etc do not do this. IFTT is very limited in conditional triggers and is a third party function to Home Automation.

For example, my front entrance has somewhat of a vestibule where I have a front door that leads to the outside and an interior door that opens up into the house. I have a program that could do the following:

if interior door opens, vestibule light turns on if its sunset+20 minutes, and shuts off when both interior and exterior door senses a close. Lights then immediately turn off once exterior door is closed.

If entering into the house, opening the exterior door turns vestibule AND hallway light on if its sunset + 20 minutes. If interior door is closed, vestibule light turns off. Hallway light turns off after 5 minutes. If interior door is left open, both lights remain on for 5 minutes.

This is what real home automation is btw. Not something like open your app, light turns on. That requires user input.

As far as I know, 3 companies can do this, the ISY994i is one product, albeit costly. And it can only be done from their web interface, not through an app.

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You probably pay a monthly fee for this and you probably have to open your iphone or device to make things happen. That's not home automation.

I have most of what you describe in my home today. No Fees are involved anywhere.

Lights go on and off based on sunset/sunrise. Manual control is always available from PC or phone, or desk keypads. Auto control comes from a PC based package.

The stairs is poorly lit. Enter, and motion sensor turns on the light. it turns off after a set time. Late at night the off delay is very short.

Enter the kitchen at night and lights come on. During day, they stay off.

If front door opens and no one is home, I get a message on my phone.

Nest goes into away mode based on location. When at home, its on. When gone, it goes into away mode based on GPS.

Front door auto locks at night. Leave the house and it locks behind you. Arrive and it unlocks. Manual control is also available.

I use Insteon hardware, Nest and MiLocks. Other firms make similar gear I believe.

 

[unplugme71]

I have most of what you describe in my home today. No Fees are involved anywhere.

Lights go on and off based on sunset/sunrise. Manual control is always available from PC or phone, or desk keypads. Auto control comes from a PC based package.

The stairs is poorly lit. Enter, and motion sensor turns on the light. it turns off after a set time. Late at night the off delay is very short.

Enter the kitchen at night and lights come on. During day, they stay off.

If front door opens and no one is home, I get a message on my phone.

Nest goes into away mode based on location. When at home, its on. When gone, it goes into away mode based on GPS.

Front door auto locks at night. Leave the house and it locks behind you. Arrive and it unlocks. Manual control is also available.

I use Insteon hardware, Nest and MiLocks. Other firms make similar gear I believe.

Yes, but you are limited to just that. You can't do programs or complex triggers. Just this than that type stuff.

And you are relying on a cloud to manage this all. Your activity is probably logged with them as well. ISY994i is locally controlled and operated. If I want notifications, they get sent to my email.

if my internet is down, my stuff still works.

 

[macosxuser01]

I have a hard time finding an app that allows for conditional triggers and programs. Insteon, Wink, Philips, etc do not do this. IFTT is very limited in conditional triggers and is a third party function to Home Automation.

For example, my front entrance has somewhat of a vestibule where I have a front door that leads to the outside and an interior door that opens up into the house. I have a program that could do the following:

if interior door opens, vestibule light turns on if its sunset+20 minutes, and shuts off when both interior and exterior door senses a close. Lights then immediately turn off once exterior door is closed.

If entering into the house, opening the exterior door turns vestibule AND hallway light on if its sunset + 20 minutes. If interior door is closed, vestibule light turns off. Hallway light turns off after 5 minutes. If interior door is left open, both lights remain on for 5 minutes.

This is what real home automation is btw. Not something like open your app, light turns on. That requires user input.

As far as I know, 3 companies can do this, the ISY994i is one product, albeit costly. And it can only be done from their web interface, not through an app.

----------



You probably pay a monthly fee for this and you probably have to open your iphone or device to make things happen. That's not home automation.

How is it not home automation when I can disarm my security system and my thermostat adjusts, and my kitchen lights turn on?
Or how is it not home automation when I leave for work my thermostat adjusts to because it knows that i'm away with geo-fencing and my garage door will alert me if I left it open?

https://www.alarm.com/productservices/home_automation.aspx

Yes I pay monthly fee because my system is monitor 24/7.
So most home owners that want a smart home already have a simple security system like a cheap ADT system paying about $40-$45 a month when for $10 dollars more a month I can control security system, door locks, lights, thermostats, garage door, etc.

You also get real time alerts. For example I can put a sensor on a medicine cabinet and get text/push notification. Or if the smoke detector goes off I get alert right away. This actually happen to someone who able to rush back to save his dogs

EDIT: Forgot to mention that this doesn't require wifi or internet connection. It uses a cellular connection so much more reliable then home wifi network

 

[Ed217]

Yes, but you are limited to just that. You can't do programs or complex triggers. Just this than that type stuff.

And you are relying on a cloud to manage this all. Your activity is probably logged with them as well. ISY994i is locally controlled and operated. If I want notifications, they get sent to my email.

if my internet is down, my stuff still works.

I don't think there are many limitations at all. Programs and complex triggers are already supported through a Rules based concept. There is no limit to either the number of rules or the length of each.

Most everything here is local, via a local net. The only cloud part is the Insteon hub, which does use the Internet for comm. Logging is all local, with logs available to view via a Notepad file. If the hub worked locally, that would eliminate most web use as well.

I can do both email and text notifications, both of which require the internet.

Also, since I use a reliable high bandwidth fixed IP web system, my typical web down time per month is measured in a few minutes a month at worst.

 

[pnvgordinho]

Homekit has the potencial to be a great thing. Have you seen on how house automation works nowadays?. Miles of cable and settings, its horrible. If they do it the right way,which I believe they will, this is going to make a major difference. After home kit, they are going for Industrialkit and change the industry PLC/automation market that is also horrible to work with.

 

[Ed217]

Homekit has the potencial to be a great thing. Have you seen on how house automation works nowadays?. Miles of cable and settings, its horrible.

One needs few cables for HA today. Devices communicate via RF and other means over existing house wiring. Plug in devices and wireless features have been around for many years.

 

[Black Belt]

The previously mentioned Alarm.com app is just a giant sales pitch for alarm dealers. Worthless crap.

 

[s1m]

Usage stats for most apps show in Settings->General->Usage->Manage Storage. Most apps take up little space, but a few like iMovie are large.

I use Insteon for light controls. Most the time automatic settings handle all on/off. However iPhone apps can also manually control every light and switch. That will move to the watch once I get one to use. I can also use voice to turn lights on/off, but rarely use that part today.

I went through the list in Manage Storage a few times and couldn't find the Watch App.

This is a non-issue for me. I can happily punt all non-used standard apps to a folder and use them if I need them.

I don't know why Apple do this but whatever reason they must have has no impact on me.

 

[brianbunge]

Yep, I have Belkin, Dropcam & Nest devices in my home and it looks like none of them are compatible. There are simply too many devices out there for this to be practical without some ubiquity.

Belkin is specifically mentioned as being HomeKit compatible. That's one of the reasons I went ahead and started installing WeMo products in my home.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Belkin is specifically mentioned as being HomeKit compatible. That's one of the reasons I went ahead and started installing WeMo products in my home.

From what I know, existing Belkin devices and anything that only talks over wifi aren't gonna work. Official HomeKit devices need to have proprietary chips to support those special WiFi and BT LE encrypted protocols. Anything that's wifi only without a MFi logo is locked out. That includes Nest, Hue, Dropcam, etc. Until those companies actually go back and pay Apple for a MFi license to integrate their special chip into a new generation of hardware, you can't do anything with them.

If you have a Z-wave or Zigbee device, it'll work in a limited capacity if you fork over additional money for a bridge. That's kinda good news if you have Z-wave switches and locks though at that point you might as well just get a Smartthings hub and be done with it, instead of having hubs cluttering your living room.

With WeMo, my guess is Belkin is probably gonna do what Schlage did and put out a dedicated product line just for Homekit.

 

[Ed217]

From what I know, existing Belkin devices and anything that only talks over wifi aren't gonna work. Official HomeKit devices need to have proprietary chips to support those special WiFi and BT LE encrypted protocols. Anything that's wifi only without a MFi logo is locked out.

Most current systems include a single hub of sorts and then 1 or more devices that control things. Vendors will need to produce a new hub with the Apple stuff, then the other existing controls should fall in line. Any approach that kills both the existing hub and devices is unlikely to go far.

Insteon has announced their "Pro" hub that's HomeKit ready, but its not available yet. Nest and other single devices will be more difficult unless vendors like Insteon integrate Nest control into their hub. Those that already have a Nest are unlikely to buy them again because of HomeKit.

Homes that have a hub and 25+ devices installed are not going to trash all those and buy new ones just for HomeKit. There will be other ways to skin the cat found, as the saying goes.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Most current systems include a single hub of sorts and then 1 or more devices that control things. Vendors will need to produce a new hub with the Apple stuff, then the other existing controls should fall in line. Any approach that kills both the existing hub and devices is unlikely to go far.

Insteon has announced their "Pro" hub that's HomeKit ready, but its not available yet. Nest and other single devices will be more difficult unless vendors like Insteon integrate Nest control into their hub. Those that already have a Nest are unlikely to buy them again because of HomeKit.

Homes that have a hub and 25+ devices installed are not going to trash all those and buy new ones just for HomeKit. There will be other ways to skin the cat found, as the saying goes.

These are the rules far as I know:

Main hub for application purposes is supposed to be the Apple TV.

Anything that's strictly a wifi gateway is not gonna be supported. So Hue, DropCam, Nest, etc won't work.

Anything Homekit certified is not supposed to include other protocols like Z wave. So Insteon isn't supposed to be putting out a hub that talks both Z wave and Homekit. I'm guessing powerline carrier doesn't count as a protocol which is why Insteon devices still work

You can bridge Z-wave/Zigbee by adding a special bridge but you can only talk to sensors. You're not gonna be able to use the bridge to unlock your Z-wave deadbolt

Anything that can be controlled needs to be controlled through HomeKit only. So if you have Hue lights, it isn't enough for the Hue hub to be upgraded. Every $60 bulb in your house has to have that proprietary chip

 

[Ed217]

These are the rules far as I know:

Main hub for application purposes is supposed to be the Apple TV.

Anything that's strictly a wifi gateway is not gonna be supported. So Hue, DropCam, Nest, etc won't work.

Anything Homekit certified is not supposed to include other protocols like Z wave. So Insteon isn't supposed to be putting out a hub that talks both Z wave and Homekit. I'm guessing powerline carrier doesn't count as a protocol which is why Insteon devices still work

You can bridge Z-wave/Zigbee by adding a special bridge but you can only talk to sensors. You're not gonna be able to use the bridge to unlock your Z-wave deadbolt

Anything that can be controlled needs to be controlled through HomeKit only. So if you have Hue lights, it isn't enough for the Hue hub to be upgraded. Every $60 bulb in your house has to have that proprietary chip

Yes, I read most of that before as well. I’m not sure how or practical that may prove for many home automation tasks.

The key part of HA is the word – automation. It’s a process that happens automatically, on its own, all the time. You set the living room lights to come on at sunrise every day and to go off by 11 PM. So something has to be both alive/awake and accessible generally to perform this task. In the past this was usually done in one of a few ways:

1. Local PC runs HA software and performs tasks on a schedule.
2. Local HA hub has schedule imbedded and performs tasks
3. Some other approach

Another key part of most HA areas are triggers based on home activity. Things like motion sensors, window/door sensors, leak detectors, etc. There is no schedule for these devices, only the event and the desired process that follows – lights coming on, doors being locked, alarms being triggered, calls being make, notifications being sent, etc. It’s a long list.

In the past most of this occurs within the actual home using gear located there. Some exceptions for things alike alarms and alarm companies exist, but still rely on the gear inside/part of the home for detection. It occurs where the residents are there or now, regardless of the state of their phones or connectivity. That might prove to be a difficult task for an iOS device that moves around, eats battery, and goes in and out of connectivity. Light sensors have to work whether or not an iOS device is traveling through a tunnel for a few minutes.

Apple TV is an interesting part of this upcoming kit. The new one is said to be a key player in the HA area acting as a hub of sorts for control of devices. That would be a substantial change in the way that ATV works today, as it goes to sleep usually after a short while when there is no user activity. It would instead become an always on device, basically with many if not most PC alive features for always running tasks. That alone is required for Siri.

I see the ATV being a good source for manual controls based on things like voice commands, but maybe less so for the background automated tasks. Maybe this will work fine, but we’ll have to wait to see what is introduced at WWDC in a few weeks.

The other interesting part of ATV is the possible option for a took kit and developer created apps. If these apps have access to the same hub features, then developers could make the app do just about anything based on what external devices could be acccessed/tracked.

Another key aspect of all of this is 2 or more iOS devices. Consider Nest as a simple example and the setting for Home/Away. Using GPS this becomes fairly easy for one person and one iOS device. The person leaves, GPS detects, and away mode is set. The person returns, GPS detects, and home mode kicks in. That works fine. Then there are 2 people and 2 iOS devices. This becomes harder as you have to somehow know whether both are gone for away mode. It requires more, and gets even more involved when there are 3+ people and potentially many iOS devices. Its solvable, but takes a lot more than the one user case.

For HA tasks this is much more involved. While Apple uses the cloud for a lot of features and capabilities, it may be less suited for HA tasks. There are some normal delays with using cloud data from one device posting a change to other devices being notified of the change. If you enter a dark home area, you really don’t want to have to wait for 30 seconds for this process to complete and the lights come on. You expect 2-3 seconds max.

Time will tell how all this works out for HomeKit. However for many of us who have been involved in HA software for decades, there tends to be a lot more to it than most realize.

 

[Cythth]

I'm just hoping that this doesn't make my investment into the Z-Wave based equipment over the last several years useless. Maybe there'll be a way to connect/bridge/unite the two standards. Oh well.....