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josh27gamer9

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 14, 2019
4
2
I would like to share my practical experience with you.

It shows more clearly that the iPhone are central products. So completely dependent on Apple server and no control by the user.


- every iOS user has to activate his device via internet during the "setup process" (local setup not possible)

This is not good, because generally UNIX systems for users don't need this.

Or other mobile systems (Android or Ubuntu Touch) that use open kernel (Linux) don't need it.

What about Microsoft Windows Phone? I've found out you can also set it up here, as with Android or Ubuntu Touch locally.
----------

The same problem occurs when installing apps.

I downloaded my app purchases with my Apple ID and saved them as a file. With older iTunes versions or iTunes alternative (iMazing) this is still possible.

then with my iPhone 11 (iOS 13) and iPad 9.7 (iPadOS 13) completely deleted (clean install). and to install an app (e.g video player) locally from PC.


but the first time you start the app you will get a message. That you should connect to the App Store.


Not necessary for Android or Ubuntu Touch devices. You can really set everything up locally.
----------


Here are videos that show how the setup process works.



Setup iPhone

0:33 - 6:27


Setup Android

4:16 - 6:13


0:25 - 1:31


Setup iPad

0:33 - 04:09
 
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josh27gamer9

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 14, 2019
4
2
Here are other experiences I like to share.

Recently i discovered something else. It's about api.smoot.apple.com. It seems to be a remote keylogger service from Apple.

More details here:


Every keypress on your iPhone or other iOS devcies is sent to api.smoot.apple.com, along with very accurate latitude and longitude and device information. Probably the same problem for iOS based devices (Apple Watch and Apple TV). It can't be disabled. Also not under the current iOS 13 version.


1. I tried it myself and reinstalled iOS on my iOS devices (clean install). afterwards I disabled all spotlight, siri, keyboard, background app refresh options under Settings. Also deleted all stock apps.

2. Then I activated mobile data so that you can see under iOS 13 Settings -> Cellular what kind of apps and services send data. although I deactivated all apps for cellular except Safari.

3. After a while the category "Uninstalled Apps 0,5 KB" always appears under iOS 13 Cellular list. After some time, the data consumption for this category also increases.

4. The problem is that I didn't uninstall any apps and reset the list several times. After a while, when you do something with Safari or Homescreen search, it will randomly reappear there. I tried everything, installed the current iOS 13 beta version and rebooted the device several times.


5. A user gave me the tip to use a local VPN on the iOS device to see what it is. I then loaded AdGuard Pro and Charles Proxy.

6. I then activated the local VPN and after a few seconds later in the protocols the iOS device connects to api.smoot.apple.com.


I could reproduce it multiple times and again and again no matter on which iOS device or iOS version. Also with my friends it is the same. And they can test it themselves. It is 100% reproducible.
 
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Vlad Soare

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2019
332
228
Bucharest, Romania
Although I agree that not being able to use the phone at all unless you create an Apple ID and register the device with Apple is stupid to say the least, this doesn't look like a privacy issue to me. Annoying perhaps, but not worrisome.
 

Vlad Soare

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2019
332
228
Bucharest, Romania
Oh, so you actually can use the phone without an Apple ID. I thought you couldn't. My mistake.
But you still need an internet connection. You can't do anything with the phone unless you allow it to call home. And that's annoying. Because once I payed for a device, from that point on it's mine, it belongs to me and only to me, and Apple has no right to attach conditions to my right of using my device. Maybe I don't want to register it. Maybe I don't want Apple to know where the phone is, and how it is used. Once I bought the phone, I have the legal right to use it, and nobody, not even Apple, may restrict this right in any way. Once they sold it to me, it stopped belonging to them, so they are no longer in a position to impose conditions or restrictions on its use. Or at least they shouldn't be. If I wanted to just stick a SIM card into the phone and start making calls right away, I should be able to do that.
 

bmac89

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2014
1,292
396
Oh, so you actually can use the phone without an Apple ID. I thought you couldn't. My mistake.
But you still need an internet connection. You can't do anything with the phone unless you allow it to call home. And that's annoying. Because once I payed for a device, from that point on it's mine, it belongs to me and only to me, and Apple has no right to attach conditions to my right of using my device. Maybe I don't want to register it. Maybe I don't want Apple to know where the phone is, and how it is used. Once I bought the phone, I have the legal right to use it, and nobody, not even Apple, may restrict this right in any way. Once they sold it to me, it stopped belonging to them, so they are no longer in a position to impose conditions or restrictions on its use. Or at least they shouldn't be. If I wanted to just stick a SIM card into the phone and start making calls right away, I should be able to do that.

I’m not commenting on whether or not I agree with this approach however....

You own the phone but not the software running on the phone which means Apple is entitled to do this.
 

Vlad Soare

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2019
332
228
Bucharest, Romania
I'm not talking about the software. I bought a phone. I must be able to make calls with it, because that's what a phone is for.
But Apple says no, we won't allow you to do anything unless you connect to the internet first and have your device registered with us. And if you don't want to register, then tough luck, you can cram that device up your arse for all we care, or use it as a door stop.
I'm sure there's some legal loophole that allows them to do that, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Of course, in practice that's no big deal - there are wi-fi hotspots everywhere, you just connect to one, and that's it. It's just annoying as a matter of principle - the seller imposing conditions on the use of your device.
 
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bmac89

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2014
1,292
396
I'm not talking about the software. I bought a phone. I must be able to make calls with it, because that's what a phone is for.
But Apple says no, we won't allow you to do anything unless you connect to the internet first and have your device registered with us. And if you don't want to register, then tough luck, you can cram that device up your arse for all we care, or use it as a door stop.
I'm sure there's some legal loophole that allows them to do that, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Whether it is right or wrong you bought a physical phone with Apples software on it. You didn’t buy the software so Apple is entitled. No mobile phone can make calls without some form of software or operating system. If you can buy a phone and install your own operating system on it then go ahead, otherwise unfortunetly it is up to Apple / software provider to decide what the software does or does not do.

If you don’t like it then I suggest providing feedback directly to Apple.
 
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Vlad Soare

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2019
332
228
Bucharest, Romania
If I remember correctly, about ten years ago there was a lawsuit against Apple. Apple wanted to make jailbreaking illegal, using the same kind of arguments you're using now - it's their software, they are entitled to control what you do with it, etc. They lost, on the grounds that a software provider may not impose any restrictions apart from those required to protect their copyright. The conclusion was basically that the owner of the device has the legal right to do anything with it, as long as it doesn't infringe Apple's copyright.

Well, using the phone to make calls without registering it with Apple doesn't look like a copyright infringement to me. So Apple should not be allowed to impose that condition.
 
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bmac89

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2014
1,292
396
If I remember correctly, about ten years ago there was a lawsuit against Apple. Apple wanted to make jailbreaking illegal, using the same kind of arguments you're using now - it's their software, they are entitled to control what you do with it, blah blah blah. They lost, on the grounds that a software provider may not impose any restrictions apart from those required to protect their copyright. The conclusion was basically that the owner of the device has the legal right to do everything with it, as long as it doesn't infringe the copyright.

No it is not the same argument. I agree that a user should be able to jail break their device. I also don’t particularly like that you are required to connect to Apple to activate a phone but I’m also not as concerned about it as you are. Whether I like it or not I’m also aware that whilst using their software they are entitled to do this.
 

Vlad Soare

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2019
332
228
Bucharest, Romania
I'm not at all concerned. I'm happy to have an Apple ID and to make full use of it.
I'm just saying that as a matter of principle it doesn't look right, even if some legal loopholes might allow them to do it.
 

Mabus51

Suspended
Aug 16, 2007
1,366
847
I'm not at all concerned. I'm happy to have an Apple ID and to make full use of it.
I'm just saying that as a matter of principle it doesn't look right, even if some legal loopholes might allow them to do it.
It’s there so Find my device & activation lock works. So if your phone is stolen the thief doesn’t have an item they can just quickly pawn for easy cash. You can always make 911 or emergency calls even if the phone isn’t activated. In most cases I find that the only people that whine about this are thieves.

If you’re really concerned about privacy a smartphone or any device with a gps is not a device you would own and would go the burner dumbphone route. Even with a burner phone it’s still tracked by every cell tower it hits.
 

benshive

macrumors demi-god
Feb 26, 2017
714
6,139
United States
The fact that you need your Apple ID to activate your phone is GOOD for privacy. If someone steals your phone they can't access the device at all even if they do a complete DFU restore. They'll hit an activation lock that can't be tampered with because the credentials check in with Apple, not something possible when it's all done locally.
 

magnum0la

macrumors newbie
Oct 16, 2019
5
0
as I understood it it is about local setup and local installation of apps, which you have loaded on your PC before.

This is not possible with an iPhone to set up locally.

Fact is a activating iOS devices over the internet has nothing to do with iCloud lock (find my device). Because the iCloud lock can only be activated if an Apple ID is registered before.

But if you buy a new iPhone at the Apple Store. You can also use the device without an Apple ID, but you need an Internet connection.

i have nothing against internet activation. i recently bought my new iPod Touch 7 and Apple Watch Series 5 and couldn't set it up locally either. you have to connect via wifi.

but understand the users if they like to setup locally. you should also be able to setup the device locally without internet and offer this possibility.

it would be great if the devices become more independent.
 

Mabus51

Suspended
Aug 16, 2007
1,366
847
as I understood it it is about local setup and local installation of apps, which you have loaded on your PC before.

This is not possible with an iPhone to set up locally.

Fact is a activating iOS devices over the internet has nothing to do with iCloud lock (find my device). Because the iCloud lock can only be activated if an Apple ID is registered before.

But if you buy a new iPhone at the Apple Store. You can also use the device without an Apple ID, but you need an Internet connection.

i have nothing against internet activation. i recently bought my new iPod Touch 7 and Apple Watch Series 5 and couldn't set it up locally either. you have to connect via wifi.

but understand the users if they like to setup locally. you should also be able to setup the device locally without internet and offer this possibility.

it would be great if the devices become more independent.
It’s to allow activation with the carrier. The Apple ID is required for Apple services which is all in their terms of use that you accept. All software has some form of this including Android. If it really bugs you jailbreak root the device and call your carrier for manual activation. You can also do this without jailbreaking but you will still need an Apple ID to use iOS. None of this is new information at all. Your privacy was sold the moment you took a breath and were issued a serial number. In the US they conveniently call your serial number a Social Security Number so that it sounds friendly. Some people have multiple serial numbers if you can believe that it’s on their Government issued IDs also vehicle VINs and vehicle registration. :eek:

If you want an independent device free of software terms then get a burner dumbphone that has no gps or screen. If it has a screen of any type, there are software terms. Actually no matter what there’s always software terms, the chips that drive a device have terms of use as well. Your better off dumping a phone all together, go off planet, and lock yourself in a faraday cage far away from any social or government entities.o_O
 
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magnum0la

macrumors newbie
Oct 16, 2019
5
0
It’s to allow activation with the carrier. The Apple ID is required for Apple services which is all in their terms of use that you accept. All software has some form of this including Android. If it really bugs you jailbreak root the device and call your carrier for manual activation. You can also do this without jailbreaking but you will still need an Apple ID to use iOS. None of this is new information at all. Your privacy was sold the moment you took a breath and were issued a serial number. In the US they conveniently call your serial number a Social Security Number so that it sounds friendly. Some people have multiple serial numbers if you can believe that it’s on their Government issued IDs also vehicle VINs and vehicle registration. :eek:

If you want an independent device free of software terms then get a burner dumbphone that has no gps or screen. If it has a screen of any type, there are software terms. Actually no matter what there’s always software terms, the chips that drive a device have terms of use as well. Your better off dumping a phone all together, go off planet, and lock yourself in a faraday cage far away from any social or government entities.o_O
What does carrier have to do with the operating system to be allowed to restrict something like this? You can't take photos/videos or call.

Fact is a activation has nothing to do with carrier. I recently bought an iPod Touch 7 and here you only get Wifi chip. just like my Apple TV 4 which is connected to the TV in the living room. My girlfriend also uses an iPad (Wi-Fi) without a cellular model. Nevertheless the activation message appears before the device can be used.

I personally have nothing against such an internet activation, because I use the internet regularly anyway.

but i understand users if they don't want it or what the reasons are. the reasons are irrelevant.

it's a fact you can't set it up locally.
 
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Mabus51

Suspended
Aug 16, 2007
1,366
847
What does carrier have to do with the operating system to be allowed to restrict something like this? You can't take photos/videos or call.

Fact is a activation has nothing to do with carrier. I recently bought an iPod Touch 7 and here you only get Wifi chip. just like my Apple TV 4 which is connected to the TV in the living room. My girlfriend also uses an iPad (Wi-Fi) without a cellular model. Nevertheless the activation message appears before the device can be used.

I personally have nothing against such an internet activation, because I use the internet regularly anyway.

but i understand users if they don't want it or what the reasons are. the reasons are irrelevant.

it's a fact you can't set it up locally.
Internet activation also activates the esim with the carrier checks to see if your device is locked and what not. It’s not just in reference to Apple services. I understand you don’t want to be wrong cause it’s probably an ego thing. But it happens.
 

Puppuccino

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2019
439
413
Aside from so called ‘phoning home’ for activation, privacy in Apple products is definitely better than the likes of Google and in Android phones. Besides, no one is forcing you to use Apple products.

I’d argue most phones nowadays require some kind of remote activation anyway.
 

magnum0la

macrumors newbie
Oct 16, 2019
5
0
Internet activation also activates the esim with the carrier checks to see if your device is locked and what not. It’s not just in reference to Apple services. I understand you don’t want to be wrong cause it’s probably an ego thing. But it happens.
Even eSIM has nothing to do with it. It's just an embedded SIM. Supported by the iPhones since last year. And on some current iPad models. But only the models with Wi-Fi + Cellular.

But my iPod Touch 7, Apple TV 4 and iPad (Wi-Fi) for my girlfriend don't have a sim card slot nor eSIM. Except my Apple Watch Series 5. But there are also only those with Wi-Fi model.

What Apple devices do you use?
 

newellj

macrumors 604
Oct 15, 2014
7,851
2,739
East of Eden
I'm not talking about the software. I bought a phone. I must be able to make calls with it, because that's what a phone is for.
But Apple says no, we won't allow you to do anything unless you connect to the internet first and have your device registered with us. And if you don't want to register, then tough luck, you can cram that device up your arse for all we care, or use it as a door stop.
I'm sure there's some legal loophole that allows them to do that, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Of course, in practice that's no big deal - there are wi-fi hotspots everywhere, you just connect to one, and that's it. It's just annoying as a matter of principle - the seller imposing conditions on the use of your device.

This just isn't true, and never was. Do you think you could have bought a phone and put it on the old Bell network without setting up an account and agreeing to be billed (after a credit check, too)? What you suggest was NEVER possible.
 
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