iOS lockdown starting to p**s me off

[thesaint024]

I randomly came across this youtube video below. Watch if interested, only a couple minutes on the points I personally cared about. He's a lifelong Android guy giving his thoughts on the X. I'm the exact opposite, all iOS (mostly). He mentioned a couple obvious things that I just learned to live with on iOS over the years, mainly Siri is totally handcuffed. iOS has got Siri by the b**ls and won't let it be used for many non-Apple apps. I use Siri a lot while I'm driving so that I'm not shortsightedly reading/sending texts while driving (statistically worse than DWI btw for people who still do this). While iMessage and phone calls work fine, some key apps don't work, for me it's Skype messaging, Outlook emails, Amazon Music.

So point of this rant is that I'm living with these things because I appreciate how locked down and simple and optimized iOS is. However, I have to believe that locking out very popular apps from Siri is just a monopolistic sales move, like how Microsoft used to aggressively block using other browsers back in the day to force IE down everyone's throat. I'm starting to feel that Apple is doing that here and that they are starting to walk that fine line of anti-trust scofflaw-ing. I suppose there is some security risk from 3rd party apps, but we're talking about MS and Amazon that coincidentally happen to have rival products with Apple. These are not small, reckless companies, and I would assume their apps are pretty safe.

Android users have been freely using Google Assistant for most things, except Apple products of course, but these aren't even Google apps. I hope Apple loosens up Siri a bit. It sucks anyway compared to competing products, so this might actually get more people to use it. Siri was one of the first in the game, and it's been developed and adopted so slowly. This video just reminded me what blows about iOS, it's locked down to a fault. I don't drive enough for these issues to make a big impact on my life, but it's really annoying that they make this so hard.

 

[tromboneaholic]

You got passed of by a video, but were ok before?

You want everybody to know everything you do, use Google.

 

[960design]

I randomly came across this youtube video below. Watch if interested, only a couple minutes on the points I personally cared about. He's a lifelong Android guy giving his thoughts on the X.

I immediately begin to think, 'Android guy... ignorance is typically the issue'.

He mentioned a couple obvious things that I just learned to live with on iOS over the years, mainly Siri is totally handcuffed. iOS has got Siri by the b**ls and won't let it be used for many non-Apple apps. I use Siri a lot while I'm driving so that I'm not shortsightedly reading/sending texts while driving (statistically worse than DWI btw for people who still do this). While iMessage and phone calls work fine, some key apps don't work, for me it's Skype messaging, Outlook emails, Amazon Music.

Developers not utilizing SiriKit/CallKit and api. Here have a quick read:
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit

Thank you Apple for providing access to Siri backend.

So point of this rant is that I'm living with these things because I appreciate how locked down and simple and optimized iOS is.

Point of this rant is software that you use on a daily basis is written by developers that have not enabled incredibly powerful frameworks Apple has spent months/years creating. Be sure to copy paste your displeasure to Skype, Outlook and Amazon. Not sure how much more Apple can do for the third party applications, except write the code for them.

 

[thesaint024]

You got passed of by a video, but were ok before?

You want everybody to know everything you do, use Google.

I'm sure you're too self aware to understand this, but I get used to things. It doesn't make it right or preferred. People tend to forget and just live with things. It reminded me that I'm not using my phone to it's full capabilities because the apps aren't supported. Not ok with it before, and a youtube video doesn't teach me the capabilities of my phone, Apple's own marketing does that. And this isn't a rant trying to convince people to switch to Android, just saying a couple things that bother me. Is that blasphemous here?

I immediately begin to think, 'Android guy... ignorance is typically the issue'.

Developers not utilizing SiriKit/CallKit and api. Here have a quick read:
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit

Thank you Apple for providing access to Siri backend.

Point of this rant is software that you use on a daily basis is written by developers that have not enabled incredibly powerful frameworks Apple has spent months/years creating. Be sure to copy paste your displeasure to Skype, Outlook and Amazon. Not sure how much more Apple can do for the third party applications, except write the code for them.

It sounds like you're taking shots at me but not entirely sure. I would actually like to thank you for enlightening a non-programmer on where I should direct my frustration if the reply wasn't as condescending as it sounded. Of course I could be misreading the tone, in which case I will thank you. I'm getting the impression you're a programmer. Did I stumble into the wrong section for my iOS user perspective rant?

 

[960design]

It sounds like you're taking shots at me but not entirely sure.

Not at all.

I would actually like to thank you for enlightening a non-programmer on where I should direct my frustration if the reply wasn't as condescending as it sounded.

I certainly could have chosen better words, but was not intentionally condescending. Please forgive my tone.

I suspect Apple rivals intentionally do not utilize all available frameworks in order to keep the impression of an edge in their own products.

I'm getting the impression you're a programmer.

I'm an *******, but programmer is close enough.

 

[thesaint024]

Not at all.
I certainly could have chosen better words, but was not intentionally condescending. Please forgive my tone.

I suspect Apple rivals intentionally do not utilize all available frameworks in order to keep the impression of an edge in their own products.

I'm an *******, but programmer is close enough.

In that case, thanks dude! Glad I didn't assume the worst. I see your point on competitors intentionally leaving out this capability in iOS, but from what I understand, they integrate their apps for Android. I suppose that could be due to Apple's 30% tax for all app purchases and Google charging much less. I'm going to assume it has something to do with Apple unwilling to cut a deal with these big players and therefore they end up screwing each other, but the consumer more. This is likely what was holding up the Amazon app from the ATV, and maybe why it's still not out. Regardless, I'm still quite annoyed that I can't use the highly touted Siri functionality for much more than iMessage and phone calls.

 

[tromboneaholic]

In that case, thanks dude! Glad I didn't assume the worst. I see your point on competitors intentionally leaving out this capability in iOS, but from what I understand, they integrate their apps for Android. I suppose that could be due to Apple's 30% tax for all app purchases and Google charging much less. I'm going to assume it has something to do with Apple unwilling to cut a deal with these big players and therefore they end up screwing each other, but the consumer more. This is likely what was holding up the Amazon app from the ATV, and maybe why it's still not out. Regardless, I'm still quite annoyed that I can't use the highly touted Siri functionality for much more than iMessage and phone calls.

I strongly suggest you spend less time watching random YouTubers. They aren’t very educational, but instead mindlessly repeat what they hear. One is more sensational than the next in search of clicks.

 

[macfacts]

... Developers not utilizing SiriKit/CallKit and api. Here have a quick read:
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit

Thank you Apple for providing access to Siri backend.

Point of this rant is software that you use on a daily basis is written by developers that have not enabled incredibly powerful frameworks Apple has spent months/years creating. ....

Looks like the idea of iOS apps being more polished than Android apps is a myth.

 

[Regime2008]

To the OP, @thesaint024 I am sorry on behalf of all of the apologists in this thread. You simply watched, in my opinion, a very good review, and came to the realization of how limited Apple's ecosystem is. The reviewer gave the iphone X PLENTY of good comments. I don't get why so many get defensive on these forums whenever there is a possibility of something negative about their favorite company. I don't get why so many make remarks like "I'm not even going to watch the video", or even go as far as discrediting the reviewer. This happened the other day with the video from Linus as well.

At the end of the day a personal phone is a personal decision. But I believe in being informed of both platforms, regardless of what phone you choose. There is nothing wrong with seeing what its like on the outside of the Apples wall, or taking a look within its walls if your an Android fan. Either you will reinforce your decision of picking the phone you did, or you might even considering making the switch to the other side.

P.S. Seeing this video really made my embrace my back button , Google Play Music, and the integration of Google Assistant with literally all the apps I used. Is Apple Music REALLY that limited though? I would imagine for a paid service you should be able to just play whatever you wanted to and go back a song or two....I never realized how much I took for granted.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Looks like the idea of iOS apps being more polished than Android apps is a myth.

What do you mean?
[doublepost=1511264241][/doublepost]

To the OP, @thesaint024 I am sorry on behalf of all of the apologists in this thread. You simply watched, in my opinion, a very good review, and came to the realization of how limited Apple's ecosystem is. The reviewer gave the iphone X PLENTY of good comments. I don't get why so many get defensive on these forums whenever there is a possibility of something negative about their favorite company. I don't get why so many make remarks like "I'm not even going to watch the video", or even go as far as discrediting the reviewer. This happened the other day with the video from Linus as well.

At the end of the day a personal phone is a personal decision. But I believe in being informed of both platforms, regardless of what phone you choose. There is nothing wrong with seeing what its like on the outside of the Apples wall, or taking a look within its walls if your an Android fan. Either you will reinforce your decision of picking the phone you did, or you might even considering making the switch to the other side.

P.S. Seeing this video really made my embrace my back button , Google Play Music, and the integration of Google Assistant with literally all the apps I used. Is Apple Music REALLY that limited though? I would imagine for a paid service you should be able to just play whatever you wanted to and go back a song or two....I never realized how much I took for granted.

With Apple Music you can play whatever you want. You should buy an iPhone and use iOS one day so you can have an informed opinion.

 

[skillwill]

I suspect Apple rivals intentionally do not utilize all available frameworks in order to keep the impression of an edge in their own products.

I've always believed this as well. Not only to boost their own products but also to undermine iOS. It seems like often a lot of the problems with third-party (particularly Google, MS, etc.) apps conveniently play to the non-iOS community's iOS stereotypes. Lack of background play in YouTube, failure to take advantage of Siri, limited/lack of good accompanying Apple Watch apps, and I find that they all do a terrible job of creating widgets and taking advantage of 3D Touch. Almost none of them use either, and those that do just give you a basic user experience. In fact their lack of effort renders 3D Touch almost useless when it could be such a powerful feature.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

I suppose that could be due to Apple's 30% tax for all app purchases and Google charging much less.

But 30% of $0.00 is $0.00. IF they write an app for iOS and charge for it, adding Siri integration doesn't cost them any more than time. And argument could even be made they could charge more for added functionality. 70% of $3 is more than 70% of $1.

 

[chrono1081]

No offense but its silly for you to get angry about Siri when it has nothing to do with the OS, it's simply developers not implementing SiriKit.

If you want your favorite apps to use Siri, contact the developer.
[doublepost=1511270170][/doublepost]

I suppose that could be due to Apple's 30% tax for all app purchases and Google charging much less.

Google charges 30% for app purchases too.
[doublepost=1511270308][/doublepost]

I don't get why so many get defensive on these forums whenever there is a possibility of something negative about their favorite company.

Except people aren't doing that, they're putting out inaccuracies. Pointing out inaccuracies isn't "getting defensive", its educating the misinformed.

 

[Xgm541]

In that case, thanks dude! Glad I didn't assume the worst. I see your point on competitors intentionally leaving out this capability in iOS, but from what I understand, they integrate their apps for Android. I suppose that could be due to Apple's 30% tax for all app purchases and Google charging much less. I'm going to assume it has something to do with Apple unwilling to cut a deal with these big players and therefore they end up screwing each other, but the consumer more. This is likely what was holding up the Amazon app from the ATV, and maybe why it's still not out. Regardless, I'm still quite annoyed that I can't use the highly touted Siri functionality for much more than iMessage and phone calls.

I wouldn't want Apple to make "Deals" with large companies to lower the 30% cut.

 

[thesaint024]

I strongly suggest you spend less time watching random YouTubers. They aren’t very educational, but instead mindlessly repeat what they hear. One is more sensational than the next in search of clicks.

The ability to sift through youtube videos and fine ones that are helpful in some way is a rational, adult skill. I think I am capable of not writing off the entire platform as sensationalism and finding some interesting viewpoints. This reviewer is not some crazy youtuber. You can tell by his rational and balanced review. It's always interesting to hear the viewpoint of the "other side".

To the OP, @thesaint024 I am sorry on behalf of all of the apologists in this thread. You simply watched, in my opinion, a very good review, and came to the realization of how limited Apple's ecosystem is. The reviewer gave the iphone X PLENTY of good comments. I don't get why so many get defensive on these forums whenever there is a possibility of something negative about their favorite company. I don't get why so many make remarks like "I'm not even going to watch the video", or even go as far as discrediting the reviewer. This happened the other day with the video from Linus as well.

At the end of the day a personal phone is a personal decision. But I believe in being informed of both platforms, regardless of what phone you choose. There is nothing wrong with seeing what its like on the outside of the Apples wall, or taking a look within its walls if your an Android fan. Either you will reinforce your decision of picking the phone you did, or you might even considering making the switch to the other side.

P.S. Seeing this video really made my embrace my back button , Google Play Music, and the integration of Google Assistant with literally all the apps I used. Is Apple Music REALLY that limited though? I would imagine for a paid service you should be able to just play whatever you wanted to and go back a song or two....I never realized how much I took for granted.

You sound like an Android user (not an insult believe it or not). To be clear, I know happy users of both platforms and I also have no intention of changing in the near future. There is nothing wrong with stating pros and cons of each. Anyone who believes their platform is infallible is a [insert childish insult here]. These two companies keep pushing each other to get better. iOS is a clearly better platform for ME at this time. It has been since the 3g. It's not for everyone, and that's COOL!

But 30% of $0.00 is $0.00. IF they write an app for iOS and charge for it, adding Siri integration doesn't cost them any more than time. And argument could even be made they could charge more for added functionality. 70% of $3 is more than 70% of $1.

I was referring to the deeper layers of negotiation. Yes, Skype and Outlook and Amazon Music are "free" in the app store. But MS and Amazon aren't doing it out of charity, they are using it for a payoff somewhere and sometime. They are likely using the incompatibility with Siri and other iOS integration as leverage or marketing.

No offense but its silly for you to get angry about Siri when it has nothing to do with the OS, it's simply developers not implementing SiriKit.

Except people aren't doing that, they're putting out inaccuracies. Pointing out inaccuracies isn't "getting defensive", its educating the misinformed.

Buddy, what is this forum for? I'm not trolling. Look at my signature, I buy the hell out of Apple products. I thought it was to have discussion about all things Apple. That's all I'm doing. This aspect, as calmly pointed out by the youtuber, is annoying AF and I just learned to live with it and didn't really notice it. I'm not going to jump ship to Android anytime soon. I know what iPhones bring me and I appreciate it greatly. @960design kindly pointed out I was wrong about who is actually at fault here and I took his word for it. Apparently I'm barking up the wrong tree, but still I don't think Apple is completely in the clear here. If you follow Apple's practices, they have everything pretty locked down and are inflexible on rates and most things in their ecosystem. I suspect that has something to do with this impasse or refusal to play ball by 3rd parties with clout (MS and Amazon). I could be wrong and admittedly am speculating. To be clear, I accept that MS and Amazon are able to integrate Siri if they wanted to. Given that their apps are so polished (relatively), it's clear they are intentionally holding out for some reason. Apple, MS, Amazon are having a pissing contest.

 

[Regime2008]

What do you mean?
[doublepost=1511264241][/doublepost]
With Apple Music you can play whatever you want. You should buy an iPhone and use iOS one day so you can have an informed opinion.

I have used ios, definitely not as extensive as my time with Androids. But there is a reason for this, ios limits and dumbs everything down, So I would rather not switch to Apple's ecosystem. While Apple music does have an extensive library, so does Google, Spotify, and several other music platforms. And there are artists and songs that are not available on ANY of these services, and I have to go to Soundcloud, bandcamp, etc for specific music.

Except people aren't doing that, they're putting out inaccuracies. Pointing out inaccuracies isn't "getting defensive", its educating the misinformed.

So everything in this video was inaccurate? Hmmm... I don't know about that, and several people have been discrediting ANY reviewer that didn't say 100% positive things about the iphone. And there are so many times I see people discrediting the reviewer (Linus, this guy, and several others), just because they said something that Apple Apologists dislike.
[doublepost=1511285855][/doublepost]

You sound like an Android user (not an insult believe it or not). To be clear, I know happy users of both platforms and I also have no intention of changing in the near future. There is nothing wrong with stating pros and cons of each. Anyone who believes their platform is infallible is a [insert childish insult here]. These two companies keep pushing each other to get better. iOS is a clearly better platform for ME at this time. It has been since the 3g. It's not for everyone, and that's COOL!

And this is why I love to be informed about ALL my options, from phones, computers, audio, etc. It's a great day to be alive and have so many choices! The competition between all the companies will only make their products better for us, the consumers

 

[thesaint024]

And this is why I love to be informed about ALL my options, from phones, computers, audio, etc. It's a great day to be alive and have so many choices! The competition between all the companies will only make their products better for us, the consumers

Wow, iOS and Android guy singing Kumbayah! (Or just being grown ups).

 

[Regime2008]

Wow, iOS and Android guy singing Kumbayah! (Or just being grown ups).

LOL! Well this just made me giggle like a child.

 

[I7guy]

Looks like the idea of iOS apps being more polished than Android apps is a myth.

Which apps specifically are a myth?

 

[bigjnyc]

I had a moment of frustration like you and decided to experiment with android, got myself a note 7 last year... the phone was great but my god is Android an absolute horrible mess... you don't know what being pissed off and frustrated is until you try using that hot piece of garbage.... I came running back sobbing in the fetal position. never again!

ok maybe it wasn't that horrible lol, but when you are used to the smoothness, organized neatness and seamlesness of iOS it can get really annoying.

 

[thesaint024]

I had a moment of frustration like you and decided to experiment with android, got myself a note 7 last year... the phone was great but my god is Android an absolute horrible mess... you don't know what being pissed off and frustrated is until you try using that hot piece of garbage.... I came running back sobbing in the fetal position. never again!

ok maybe it wasn't that horrible lol, but when you are used to the smoothness, organized neatness and seamlesness of iOS it can get really annoying.

Haha. I've heard similar stories, but I'm not on the fence to jump ship at this time. I only brought this up to try to voice a suggestion to change something because I'm sure Apple, MS, and Amazon give a s**t about my opinion. The iPhone isn't perfect, but it's pretty close for me. It doesn't hurt to ask for what I want right? Especially when Siri is friggin marketed like it's so wonderful and helpful. Well it isn't if it's limited (due to 3rd parties or Apple or both).

You point out the best thing about iOS. Because it's so tightly controlled, you don't have rogue processes happening and f'n up the basic experience. That keeps people from tinkering and angering those people, but I personally need the phone to function 100% of the time and not mess around fixing it even if it's a rare occurrence. Others like that openness, and I admit I do in PC building and tinkering. But I can't afford hiccups on my primary device any longer. Unfortunately, this means that some key productivity apps don't play nice with Siri!

 

[960design]

I had a moment of frustration like you and decided to experiment with android, got myself a note 7 last year... the phone was great but my god is Android an absolute horrible mess... you don't know what being pissed off and frustrated is until you try using that hot piece of garbage.... I came running back sobbing in the fetal position. never again!

ok maybe it wasn't that horrible lol, but when you are used to the smoothness, organized neatness and seamlesness of iOS it can get really annoying.

I completely agree. Samsung makes some really great phones. They just need to drop the 'free' operating system, pay a dozen engineers / designers to build a fantastic OS. Just think what they could come up with, now knowing all the strengths and weaknesses of Apple's iOS.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

I was referring to the deeper layers of negotiation. Yes, Skype and Outlook and Amazon Music are "free" in the app store. But MS and Amazon aren't doing it out of charity, they are using it for a payoff somewhere and sometime. They are likely using the incompatibility with Siri and other iOS integration as leverage or marketing.

Sure the larger companies are offering apps without costs for some gain on their end. For Amazon it's making the purchased of good off their site as easy as possible or adding to the value of doing Prime. For Microsoft it's to compete in the Enterprise space where they make more money than they ever could off iOS apps.

My response though was in relation to what seemed like a statement that those companies don't offer Siri support because of the 30% fee. Their motivation for NOT integrating Siri is anyone's guess. Amazon it's probably to get people to use their Alexa product which again, can be used to sell more stuff on Amazon. For Microsoft it's Cortana. In the end, they will find Siri on iOS is a better deal and code it in.

 

[bigjnyc]

I completely agree. Samsung makes some really great phones. They just need to drop the 'free' operating system, pay a dozen engineers / designers to build a fantastic OS. Just think what they could come up with, now knowing all the strengths and weaknesses of Apple's iOS.

Never thought of that but you’re absolutely right. With all the money they have why wouldn’t they do what Apple does and pay some top notch programmers to take the best aspects of Apple and Android and create their own software that works great with their hardware.

 

[thesaint024]

Never thought of that but you’re absolutely right. With all the money they have why wouldn’t they do what Apple does and pay some top notch programmers to take the best aspects of Apple and Android and create their own software that works great with their hardware.

+1. Great idea. When you think about it, they are already dominant in the Android hardware realm, they already layer on their Samsung specific software, etc. I imagine it would take more than a dozen software engineers though. These software teams are huge, and they need to develop the entire ecosystem. True they can make it more open, but they still will need equivalents of music, video, virtual assistant, etc. to fully do what they want. I guess I'm just asking for another competitor to get the existing players to take it up a notch. Best aspects of both iOS and Android is a big ask though, and I'm not hopeful it would be everything we want in the end.