iOS Questions: Thinking About iPad Pro as my First Apple Product

Discussion in 'iPad' started by exanimo, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. exanimo macrumors newbie

    exanimo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    #1
    Hello there. I'm contemplating between a SP4 (m3) and iPro. I have a first gen Surface which badly needs an upgrade and I'm thinking of going to an Apple Device for the first time ever which leads me to some questions about iOS.

    What's making me think twice about sticking with Windows is the glitchyness I've had on the first generation Surface and the fact that it has bogged down a lot over the years with constant updates. I like the idea of ARM processors, but Windows RT was just too much for it. Even though the m3 is waaaay better and on full W10, the Surface in general just feels too small, cluttered and messy for every day usage when I would much rather just jump onto my desktop for those tasks. I really think iOS is compelling and changing the paradigm of computing by simplifying programs so you don't need strong hardware to do advanced things. I like that. A lot.

    I'm also realizing I don't think I need legacy for what I do, which is mostly just browsing, writing, sketching, PowerPoint, light Excel, and listening to music. I like the idea of iOS because it's simple, fast and fluid for most tasks. The iPro's great digitizer is a huge plus as well as the fact that iPads also seem to age well and have minimal issues.

    Here's what I'm not so sure of about iOS and primarily the reason I'm here.

    I still know very little about the usage of iOS, what it is capable of, and just how much freedom I'd have to give up to have that consistent, streamlined Apple experience. I consider myself slightly advanced when it comes to working with technology, so I would like to be nit picky with certain aspects without jail breaking if possible. My major issue with iOS has been and always will be the fact that it locks down files and is primarily cloud based which I DO NOT want to do at all. I like "physical" copies of things and the ability to manipulate them. I like my music (FLACs and MP3s from my CDs) stored somewhere on the HD... I like being able to use my phone and thumb drives to throw files around my computers/tablets with relative ease and not always relying on the Internet. Most importantly, I like turning off the internet and storing all my personal writing and work on a Flash Drive without it ever touching the Web or even having the chance to.

    So I guess my questions are as follows: Just how much file freedom am I losing? Can I transfer files and keep my work offline and off of the iPro? Can I use one of those made for apple lightning USB flash drives with all kinds of files (.doc/.pages/Procreate files/etc.)? Will I always be required to go through iTunes to transfer things around and play my MP3s and FLACs? What other issues may I run into? Will the iPro work for me, or should I just go with the SP4?

    Thanks for your time.
     
  2. Night Spring, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #2
    Regarding file transfers, are you against using wifi to transfer them? Because there is this app called FileBrowser that can see shared drives over a wifi network and you can fling files to and from the iPad.

    Not using cloud storage makes keeping files in sync a two-step process. Like, if you use Microsoft Office, and you keep your Office files on OneDrive, then you edit something on your iPad, when you get back to your desktop, the edited file is already waiting on the desktop for you to just sit down and start working right where you left off. If you don't use OneDrive, you come home, open up your iPad, use FileBrowser or another similar app to transfer the file to your computer, then you can start working. It's doable, but much clunkier.

    And those USB flash drives with lightning connectors also need an app (provided by drive manufacturers) to transfer files to them. So if you use one of those drives, then you'll just be substituting FileBrowser with a flash drive managing app. At least FileBrowser writes directly to your computer's shared drives, so it'll save you a step.

    Music and videos, you can get a third-party media player app, and store them on the iPad. Heck, FileBrowser plays most media types. You can transfer media files over wifi, though it's faster to do it through USB, but if you use USB, you need iTunes.
     
  3. Eric5273 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #3
    Honestly, it sounds like the SP4 would be a better fit for you. iOS does not allow for local file management. Each app manages its own files within the app, but there is no place where you can view all of your files together in one app, unless you store them in the cloud.

    The workaround is to get a file management app (like FileBrowser mentioned above) and each time you are done with a file in another app, export that file to FileBrowser (or another file management app). The down side of doing this is you will now have 2 copies of that file on your iPad, the copy of the file within the app, and the copy you exported to the file management app. This is a pretty clunky way of managing files.

    To clarify this a little, it's as if each app has its own folder where it can store files, but no other app has access to that folder. So the only way to pass a file from one app to the other, is to export the file from one app to the other. But that still leaves the original copy saved within the first app.

    So yes, you can do what you want to do, but not in the most convenient and efficient way. iOS is really optimized for the cloud, as most apps can save and retrieve files from the most popular cloud storage services (iCloud, OneDrive, Dropbox)
     
  4. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #4
    Yes, exactly. I'd like to add that OP mentioned wanting physical copies of the files with them. Well, saving them in the cloud doesn't mean you won't have physical copies. There will always be a physical copy of the files on your computer at home, and if you open a file on your iPad to edit, then there will be a physical copy of that file on your iPad. Cloud services are really just a way to keep all those copies in sync.
     
  5. exanimo, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    exanimo thread starter macrumors newbie

    exanimo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    #5
    Thanks for the prompt response and the information. For what I'm looking for, it seems like the Flash Drive is perfect since it seems I can do everything offline. Even though it's more troublesome, I'm looking for privacy and security first and foremost.

    Is it possible to cut and paste files? I don't like keeping any of my more personal compositions on any computer at all and have 2 different Flash Drives for that.

    Another few questions. How is security on filebrowser? I still feel like it's online. Also, how exactly do those drives work? Does it work with all file types? If (hopefully) Scrivener is ever released on iOS could it take those files? Will it know where it needs to go? How do apps access files?

    Thanks again, you've been a great help.
     
  6. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #6
    "Cut and paste"? Well, as Eric explained, each app keeps its own copy of a file. So let's say you write a document in Word, and use a Flash drive app to copy it to a Flash drive, then you'll have to remember to go back to Word and delete the copy there.

    How do these drives work. Well, apps declare file types they can accept. File management apps like FileBrowser and Flash drive apps declare for all file types, so they accept any file type. Other apps only accept some types of files. Like Word, for instance, only accepts Word files and other text files. So you plug in a flash drive, open up the flash drive app, select a file, maybe hit an icon to bring up options, and one of the options is "send to" or "open in" or something like that. They keep changing the name. Pick that option, and you get a list of apps on your iPad that can accept that file type. Tap the app you want to send the file to, and that app comes up and opens that file. When you are done with that file and you want to copy it back to the flash drive, you do the reverse, sending the file from your app to the flash drive app.

    And now that I'm thinking about it, I'm pretty sure you can do this only one file at a time.

    I think iPad Pro is a great device for the kind of things you want to do, but if you insist on not using cloud services, it's just going to be very clunky.
     
  7. exanimo thread starter macrumors newbie

    exanimo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    #7
    Wow! Great, thorough information.

    Filebrowser seems great, just still online, even if it is on my home Network.

    The Flash Drive method does seem clunky, but it is secure and offline.

    Definitely does give me a lot to think about. For smooth, simple, straightforward work from a Tablet first product, the iPro seems superior to the SP4. Especially with a fanless design... I just wish it had the control of the Surface. Then again I don't think it would be the same kind of fluid experience with that control.

    Thank you so much, guys. I wish I could give you more 'thanks'.
     
  8. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #8
    I wouldn't call a home network "online" -- that data is just being exchanged among your networked devices. It's not going anywhere into the Internet.
     
  9. Eric5273 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #9
    Keep one thing in mind... the "sandboxed" approach of not letting apps share files with each other actually makes the iPad much more secure than any PC or Mac with a "regular" operating system. Given that your goal is to have things very secure, that would be a good thing.
     
  10. hovscorpion12 macrumors 65816

    hovscorpion12

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Location:
    USA
    #10
    I own both the Surface Pro 4 and iPad Pro. Since your used to Windows, I would recommend staying with Windows. The Surface Pro 4 I have is the 512GB / Intel Core i7 - 16GB RAM. I came from using OS X for 7 years and I love it. My original experience came from a Windows 95 IBM THINKPAD 365XD LAPTOP. It was horrible. constant blue screen of death, crashes..etc. (reasons why i stayed away from windows). The Surface Pro 4 is perfectly optimized hardware and software. (I do wish they added a quad-core CPU and a dedicated graphics card). If you own an iPhone or used an iPhone in the past, the iPad is right at home simple and easy. The iPad Pro is based on iOS not OS X so some of the apps or features your looking for are not present or are present just not optimized for iPad Pro. Microsoft has launched Office for iPad Pro but does lack some features in Word, Excel.
     
  11. DaniJoy macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Location:
    California
    #11
    i would try them both out. it's really a personal thing. both companies have a return window. im personally thinking about jumping ship back to a windows tablet, like the Toshiba dynapad, or the new samsung, because i have really bad glitches and bugs with palm rejection on my Ipad pro. Other people dont have the issues i do, so its a personal thing if it will work for your hand. im an artist, so my ipad really has been a poor experience while drawing. might be fine for you. if it didn have those glitches it would be the perfect digital sketchbook.
     
  12. brent12 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    #12
    I highly recommend the iPad Pro but only if you are willing to use the cloud, otherwise dealing with files is too difficult IMHO. Another option might be the iPad Pro with a nice RDP application like Jump so you could enjoy the iPad for many things but use your computer via RDP for the other file intensive work.
     
  13. exanimo, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    exanimo thread starter macrumors newbie

    exanimo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    #13
    Well, one reason I am liking iOS is because I don't want the i5/i7 devices. I want a longer battery life and efficiency of a device that that can run great with no fan or even a need for extra power. If I want power, I have my desktop. Tablets, even the SP4 aren't a full on desktop replacement yet.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016 ---
    I find that extremely hard to believe. I've seen nearly every youtube video featuring either the Surface Pro 4 or iPro in an art/drawing capacity and everything points to the iPro having superiority. I haven't drawn on an iPro, but I've used a SP3 and the one thing that bugged me about it was the palm rejection.

    Does the Toshiba or Samsung use Wacom AES? Does it have better palm rejection?
     
  14. exanimo thread starter macrumors newbie

    exanimo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    #14
    Well, as long as my network is secure (who knows) it's not really going online, I realize that. Call me a little paranoid about my ideas, but if I write virtually, I don't ever want them leaving a HD or having an opportunity to. I really am a luddite when it comes to cloud computing and don't trust it at all. I do a lot of my writing on a typewriter as well as my 1st Gen Surface just because I don't need to cloud with those.

    I just really need a new digital writing device with great battery life that I can lug around, and I like the idea that I could also draw with the outstanding (from what I've seen/read) digitizer of the iPro.
     
  15. hovscorpion12 macrumors 65816

    hovscorpion12

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Location:
    USA
    #15
    Samsung has the S-Pen which in my opinion is the #1 best stylus any company has ever created, second is the Apple Pencil and third is Surface Pen. Samsung's Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 edition and Galaxy NotePro 12.2" both have the S-Pen with 2,048 pressure sensitivity and palm rejection if chosen.
     
  16. brent12 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    #16

    The problem with drawing on the iPad Pro with the Apple stylus is the stylus is pretty crappy in my opinion. Yes it is very accurate and quick to follow the user's movements but the pressure sensitivity is very poor from my experience. The SP4 and Wacom devices can delineate between many, many different pressure levels and while I haven't seen numbers it seems like the Apple stylus recognizes maybe 5 different pressure levels at most. This is based on my limited use of drawing apps on the iPad Pro that are designed to work with the stylus. That said I really like my iPad Pro but the stylus is unimpressive in my experience. Further Apple's stylus is too long to fit in my pocket (and I have big pockets) and unlike the Surface Pro 4 doesn't attach to the iPad Pro, although there is a Kickstarter called Quarter with a dock plus protective cap for the Apple Pencil that looks interesting but they haven't shipped me the items yet.
     
  17. bensisko macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Location:
    The Village
    #17
    For the OP:
    It depends on how willing you are to give up reliance on old thinking. If you are extremely reliant on being able to do the same things as Windows (like moving files around), then go with either a Surface Pro 4 (there's a new Samsung Windows 10 tablet that looks pretty decent too - SPen is actually pretty good on Samsung devices, but it has the same "slide" issue as the Surface).

    Here's what I mean:
    As other posters have meantioned, each app stores files for that application. That's not a bad thing - I can open up PowerPoint and see just my PowerPoint files - I don't have to spend time creating directories and organizing my files. This is a task I think the Desktop (OS X and Windows) needs to give up. It's a different orgainization system, but, in my opinion, infantry simpler and less annoying than Desktop OS.

    In addition, I think people really over-exaggerate the difficulty of 'moving files around', and I think this is because they're trying to replicate their experience of a desktop on iOS. If you try to do that, you're not going to have a good time. If you open yourself up to doing things differently, I think you'll at very least be less frustrated, but hopefully find that it actually works better.

    On the cloud:
    You don't have to use the cloud at all. You can transfer files to and from your desktop computer using iTunes. I do it all the time and it's not difficult. I do wish there were easier options (like Air Drop between OS X and iOS), but it's also not a massive pain either. Believe it or not, it's beneficial (at least for me) as a metaphor for going from one system to another (organizing by file structure on Windows/OS X to app-based on iOS).

    Overall, it's all about how much you're willing to accept iOS on it's own terms. If you try to carry your desktop experience over to the tablet, then you WILL be frustrated and you won't like it. If you accept iOS is the way it is and try to accept it on it's own terms, you will at least understand how it works and you may not LOVE it, but you'll at least understand it.

    From your original post, I do all these things and more on the iPad Pro - and it's not even close to a stretch. I don't have to 'hack around' to get it to work. I have a workflow and it works for me and I'm MUCH happier giving up contrivances of a desktop to get things done. Do I still need a desktop? Yep, but I'm able to a lot on the iPad and it doesn't bother me that I have to use two different devices.

    Personally, the Apple Pencil wins hands down. A close runner up was a Wacom stylus on a Samsung ATIV 500T. I love the Surface Pro 3, but there was too much "slide".
     
  18. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #18
    But you CAN airdrop between iOS and OS X! I think you need more recent Mac hardware, I forget where the cutoff is, but it needs more recent versions of Bluetoth.
     
  19. exanimo thread starter macrumors newbie

    exanimo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    #19
    Wow, these ideas that the stylus isn't so great are just blowing my mind. Other than the smoothness and reliability of the OS, one of the main reasons I felt the iPro was a better option was because I've been reading great things about the drawing abilities it has. Hearing negative things about it from real users is pretty disconcerting.
     
  20. DaniJoy macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Location:
    California
    #20
    ya here is an example of that great drawing experience from my youtube. Procreate says "thats just how it works, sorry". i frequent other forums that are tablet enthusiasts, most mock the ipad and the apple pencil. seriously, the apple pencil, its not even better than 15 year old solutions. some of us have been doing this along time. dont get me wrong, if it was not so buggy it would be my favorite mobile solution. the tablet is the best. the battery life is great on the tablet. the pencil is nice when it works. its a very pretty solution, but for me is very buggy and annoying.




    dont believe everything you read. most people have never even used a wacom EMR device. or they are not artists, so they have no clue what a good stylus actually is. wacom AES is not as good as EMR , its closer to apple pencil and microsoft pen feel. im not sure what you find hard to believe, i said try them both and make up your own mind and shared my personal experience. if apple does not fix the issues soon, ill be selling mine for the toshiba or something else. the differences in the stylus's between brands are so minute anyway, i would rather have good palm rejection and full software apps. wacom palm rejection works better for me. but not everyone is having the issues so YMMV.

    keep in mind, best is subjective. whats best for me, might not be best for you. we all have different needs and form factors we favor. i love my ipad pro, i just wish it lived up to the hype with the pencil. it would be the perfect light duty sketchbook for me. the pressure sensitivity is second only the high end wacom devices costing 3x as much. i still prefer my cintiq companion. but i find it to be less portable. ipad is more portable for sketching, but is not as good for painting for me.

    another good unbiased review:
     
  21. bensisko macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Location:
    The Village
    #21
    Yep - I was saying I wish I could air drop between an iPad and Windows like I can with an iPad and OS X. =)
    --- Post Merged, Feb 2, 2016 ---
    My advice? Don't listen to anybody and try it yourself.

    The positive reactions to the Apple Pencil FAR outweigh the negative. It's funny because most people who are negative on the Apple Pencil cite the Wacom Cintiq as the 'gold standard', yet the Wacom doesn't have a universal acceptence either. I used the Wacom Cintiq for about a week and felt it was lacking compared to the Surface Pro 3. I didn't hate the Cintiq, but felt it's WAY overhyped.

    In the end, as with all tools, the best tool for you is the best tool for you. Go to an Apple Store and draw with the Pencil for an hour.
     
  22. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #22
    Oh, okay, I didn't realize you are using Windows.

    Also agree that OP should try out the Pencil instead of listening to people. Some people have problems with palm rejection, while others say palm rejection is perfect. So far no one seems to have figured out why it works for some but not others, so only way to find out if it works for you is to try it yourself.
     
  23. Beavix macrumors 6502a

    Beavix

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Location:
    Romania
    #23
    I have just tried to replicate what you did in your movie with Procreate and I had NONE of those issues on my iPad Pro. None. You most likely had an intermittent Bluetooth connection between your Pencil and the iPad.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2016 ---
    Don't believe everything you read. The Pencil works very well. I know people who are very fussy about simple things like their ballpoint pens. You can imagine how fussy the people can be about a digital stylus. Especially professional painters and illustrators. Unless you're one of them, take their opinions with a grain of salt because they are very hard to please and have peculiar demands from their tools.
     
  24. lagwagon Suspended

    lagwagon

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    #24
    I don't know if you made that video yourself but if that is you, have you even tried the Palm Rejection settings in Procreate? In The iOS Settings > Procreate there are Palm Rejection settings. Off, Standard and Fine.
     
  25. Beavix macrumors 6502a

    Beavix

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Location:
    Romania
    #25
    LOL, on mine the Palm Support is disabled, I didn't even know about that setting... And still, no issues with the palm rejection.
     

Share This Page