MacVault

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 10, 2002
1,144
59
Planet Earth
I get very frustrated seeing Apple screw themselves, and therefore us loyal customers, again ~30 years later. Did they not learn the first time with Microsoft? I mean, they may have great profits with their 'walled garden', but once the scale starts to tip toward Android, and I think it already has, then the devs will make a b-line to that platform and iOS will take second place or be abandoned altogether leaving Apple's products in the dust and giving us issues like, oh I can't find such and such an app, and intense feature-disparity -- just as we've seen for years between Windows & Mac OS/X.

Apple had a perfect opportunity to be on top of this mobile world by making their platform "open" in the sense that Android is open. But I'm afraid due to their greed for profits and control they're quickly losing that opportunity as we speak. And "mobile" is HUGE!

iOS may have a zillion apps and devs now, but just watch - that can change real quick. :mad::mad::mad:

What do you all think???

Oh, and Twitter integration as a main feature of iOS 5? :eek: Come on! What a weak thing to pitch as a 'feature' of a major update. If this is all they've got then iOS really is in a death spiral. :mad:
 

treyjustice

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2009
1,218
103
TX
I'd be happy if iOS is like Mac os today. I have no problem find anything for snow leopard and find it superior to windows.
 

kapolani

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2011
268
558
USA
I think developers will go where the money is. Right now it's IOS.

If Google doesn't curtail their fragmentation issue I don't see it over taking IOS.
 

naths

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2009
308
0
Bristol.UK
Apple now rely on the paying public buying their products purely because they are apple!!1..
Its been a year now and still no new phone!!...yet the competition have gone sailing by,dual-core,3D,1080p video,etc etc,...Yet they still seem to think they know best,i use a Imac and a macbook pro,but iv just invested a lot of money in new servers etc for my company,all WINDOWS!!,if the software was available for OSX i may have gone to apple,but sadly no!!!...will they ever learn???....i doubt it very much!!:mad:
 

Krandor

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2010
478
80
I am not so sure you are right. I just talked to a friend today who moved from iOS to Android and wants to move back to iOS because it "just works". He has had stability issues with his Android phone and is tired of dealing with it. That is what happens when you move an OS to lots of different types of hardware.. it is harder to make sure it is stable on all platforms. How many people really "like" windows or just use it because they have to? In the mobile market I think you will see more people hading back to iPhone/iOS because the number of people who really want to "tinker" with a phone is not that large. A phone is a device where people want it to "just work".
 

ap3604

macrumors 68000
Jan 11, 2011
1,929
0
Damn... OP joined macrumors in 2002! :eek:

Whatever he says he has my respect as a serious macrumors elder ;)
 

Fernandez21

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2010
4,745
2,980
As long as the platform is still supported, what does it matter? I'm not a share holder or anything so it doesn't matter to me how many iPhones they sell, all I care is how good the product is and how well supported it is by 3rd parties.

Btw, I don't see android keeping their number one position, I feel that windows phone will actually surpass them eventually. Windows platform is much smoother and more polished than android and with windows 8 having a similar ui I can see people going for that when their contracts are up. And I say this with me personally liking webos the best of all the major platforms followed by iOS. Though FYI, I have an android phone and hate it, can't wait until the new iPhone and pre3 are released.

Edit:

I am not so sure you are right. I just talked to a friend today who moved from iOS to Android and wants to move back to iOS because it "just works". He has had stability issues with his Android phone and is tired of dealing with it. That is what happens when you move an OS to lots of different types of hardware.. it is harder to make sure it is stable on all platforms. How many people really "like" windows or just use it because they have to? In the mobile market I think you will see more people hading back to iPhone/iOS because the number of people who really want to "tinker" with a phone is not that large. A phone is a device where people want it to "just work".

This is exactly my experience and why I can't wait to get rid of this android phone and why I feel windows phone will eventually surpass android, because it too just works, it will have the same hardware support as android, and because of the tie in with windows 8.
 

Small White Car

macrumors G4
Aug 29, 2006
10,934
1,263
Washington DC
If you think the iPhone/Android story is at all like the Mac/Windows story then you need to re-read your history.

For starters, the Mac was never nearly as successful as iOS is. So right there your entire theory is starting from a flawed premise. Basically you're basing an entire theory on things that didn't happen which makes everything you derive from that pretty much useless.
 

MacVault

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 10, 2002
1,144
59
Planet Earth
I am not so sure you are right. I just talked to a friend today who moved from iOS to Android and wants to move back to iOS because it "just works". He has had stability issues with his Android phone and is tired of dealing with it. That is what happens when you move an OS to lots of different types of hardware.. it is harder to make sure it is stable on all platforms. How many people really "like" windows or just use it because they have to? In the mobile market I think you will see more people hading back to iPhone/iOS because the number of people who really want to "tinker" with a phone is not that large. A phone is a device where people want it to "just work".

Maybe when a platform starts out this is somewhat true, but hey, Windows XP / 7 really "just works", at least for me. Maybe with Mac OS vs Windows 98 this was more of an issue, but Microsoft and hardward manufacturers really got past this for the most part, and I'm afraid that will happen with Android.

Just think - on Android I can find apps to do stuff like overclock the CPU, or to search for wifi signals, etc. Apple on the other had is run by control freaks and they don't think I need any such apps. :mad::mad::mad:
 

iApples

macrumors 65816
Mar 24, 2011
1,075
0
Oh, and Twitter integration as a main feature of iOS 5? :eek: Come on! What a weak thing to pitch as a 'feature' of a major update. If this is all they've got then iOS really is in a death spiral. :mad:


No one knows what the 'main features' will be. No one knows anything about iOS 5. It's all speculation. Wait until the keynote is over before making absurd statements like iOS is in a 'death spiral'. The keynote is in an hour. We'll see shortly what iOS 5 has to offer.
 

daneoni

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2006
10,807
79
I actually like it the way it is. Android can dominate all they want as long as Apple keeps making money and has a healthy platform i'm more than content. Apple has never been about market domination, they cater to a certain demographic/niche market and that's it.
 

ani23

macrumors 6502
Dec 22, 2008
277
6
Yes thats why they are the second most valuable company in the US and worth more than microsoft and google combined.
 

MacVault

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 10, 2002
1,144
59
Planet Earth
I actually like it the way it is. Android can dominate all they want as long as Apple keeps making money and has a healthy platform i'm more than content. Apple has never been about market domination, they cater to a certain demographic/niche market and that's it.

Yea, but history has proven that without market domination the product will be supported by less devs, therefore less choice of software so you run into uber-annoying issues like, "...oops, I bought a [expensive] Mac but I can't for the life of me find a fully feature personal finance manager... the mac version of quicken sucks balls vs the Windows version..."

I am not so sure you are right. I just talked to a friend today who moved from iOS to Android and wants to move back to iOS because it "just works". He has had stability issues with his Android phone and is tired of dealing with it. That is what happens when you move an OS to lots of different types of hardware.. it is harder to make sure it is stable on all platforms. How many people really "like" windows or just use it because they have to? In the mobile market I think you will see more people hading back to iPhone/iOS because the number of people who really want to "tinker" with a phone is not that large. A phone is a device where people want it to "just work".

If anyone could resolve the multi-hardware-incompatibility issues it would be Apple. Apple is so control-freakish the hardware vendors would not dare stray from Apple's specs. They would tremble with holy fear in the presense of his holiness, Lord Jobs! Issue resolved!

Steve Jobs is such a control freak I would not be surprised if he himself is the "shadow government" ruling the governments of the world!! Obama thinks he's so cool but his pride blinds him from the fact that he is just the puppet.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sarcosis

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2006
588
7
These United States
Yea, but history has proven that without market domination the product will be supported by less devs, therefore less choice of software so you run into uber-annoying issues like, "...oops, I bought a [expensive] Mac but I can't for the life of me find a fully feature personal finance manager... the mac version of quicken sucks balls vs the Windows version..."

Market domination does not mean that Dev's will jump ship. There is one key difference between this fight vs the Mac/PC fight and it is this, developers are far happier to stay with Apple for 2 reasons: 1.) Far less fragmentation which makes coding easier and 2.) The developers make more money.

In contrast, Android developers need to contend with the two key facts above. Fragmentation is no fun. You have to deal with more variables that makes development more complicated. Developers also make less money. While they get a bigger piece of the pie from Google, you don't see near the volume of sales. That equals less revenue and then less profits.

As long as developers are making more money, there will be incentive to stick with IOS vs Android.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05...than-on-apples-ios/?section=magazines_fortune
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,439
12,115
Scotland
What lesson was Apple meant to learn from Windows? Certainly Apple needs no lessons on how to make a profit....

Apple's strategy under Jobs was always to provide a premium product for a healthy profit. As expected for such a strategy, competitors will try to undercut the price, but unless they are more efficient at R&D and translating R&D into real products, then the reduced price typically reflects a less satisfying user experience.

And, for the record, when Apple tried a more open model for the Mac, it failed spectacularly (Daystar clones).
 

JediZenMaster

Suspended
Mar 28, 2010
2,180
654
Seattle
Yea, but history has proven that without market domination the product will be supported by less devs, therefore less choice of software so you run into uber-annoying issues like, "...oops, I bought a [expensive] Mac but I can't for the life of me find a fully feature personal finance manager... the mac version of quicken sucks balls vs the Windows version..."

Market domination means nothing for example look at BMW and Volkswagon they don't dominate their markets but they do put out quality products.

Let android dominate all they want with their unpolished OS and massive fragmentation. I will take iOS because it does what i need it to do. The Devs are not going to have a diaspora from iOS because this is the platform that is more profitable for them. Most android users want free apps while iOS users will pay for a quality app.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,439
12,115
Scotland
The open model does obviously work for Google. For now. However, Apple would lose control of iTunes and the App store if it adopted the same approach. Microsoft and Google don't really have anything comparable to protect.
 

MacVault

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 10, 2002
1,144
59
Planet Earth
Market domination means nothing for example look at BMW and Volkswagon they don't dominate their markets but they do put out quality products...

But with cars its a bit different. I don't buy the car and then hope I can find a third party who will supply the seats (apps) that I want. BMW and Volkswagon do the entire thing - like from CPU to Operating System AND Apps. So there's no question as to whether I can find the seats (apps) I want.
 
Last edited:

mysterioustko

macrumors 6502
May 7, 2011
423
0
Market domination does not mean that Dev's will jump ship. There is one key difference between this fight vs the Mac/PC fight and it is this, developers are far happier to stay with Apple for 2 reasons: 1.) Far less fragmentation which makes coding easier and 2.) The developers make more money.

In contrast, Android developers need to contend with the two key facts above. Fragmentation is no fun. You have to deal with more variables that makes development more complicated. Developers also make less money. While they get a bigger piece of the pie from Google, you don't see near the volume of sales. That equals less revenue and then less profits.

As long as developers are making more money, there will be incentive to stick with IOS vs Android.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05...than-on-apples-ios/?section=magazines_fortune

What the article you link to doesn't take into account is that the majority of the apps in the google market are monetized through ads, so of course the sales numbers wouldn't be the same. Take "Angry Birds" for example, it is a paid app in the appstore but a free app in the android market. It's free in the android market because it's add supported. So whereas Rovio will make 99 cents per person that downloads it in the appstore, they have an opportunity to make more money per person in the ad supported version. So if both apps were downloaded 1 million times (just using this number as an example) on each platform, the appstore would have 1 million more paid app downloads right there..though that doesn't necessarily mean the dev made more money in the appstore.
 

lsvtecjohn3

macrumors 6502a
May 8, 2008
856
0
I get very frustrated seeing Apple screw themselves, and therefore us loyal customers, again ~30 years later. Did they not learn the first time with Microsoft? I mean, they may have great profits with their 'walled garden', but once the scale starts to tip toward Android, and I think it already has, then the devs will make a b-line to that platform and iOS will take second place or be abandoned altogether leaving Apple's products in the dust and giving us issues like, oh I can't find such and such an app, and intense feature-disparity -- just as we've seen for years between Windows & Mac OS/X.

Apple had a perfect opportunity to be on top of this mobile world by making their platform "open" in the sense that Android is open. But I'm afraid due to their greed for profits and control they're quickly losing that opportunity as we speak. And "mobile" is HUGE!

iOS may have a zillion apps and devs now, but just watch - that can change real quick. :mad::mad::mad:

What do you all think???

Oh, and Twitter integration as a main feature of iOS 5? :eek: Come on! What a weak thing to pitch as a 'feature' of a major update. If this is all they've got then iOS really is in a death spiral. :mad:

First off iOS is larger than Android when you include iPod Touch iPad and the iPhone. iOS user download and spend more money on apps than Android user. Apple has given over 2 billion dollars to developers. There has been over 10 billion downloads from the App store were Android users have only downloaded 4.5 billion apps. Developers prefer to develop for iOS first because thats were the money at. This will not look like Mac vs Windows, theres too many other OS. Android will not have 90% of the market.

Who's to say that the Twitter integration is true? why don't you wait until WWDC is done before you complain about a rumor.
 

Tarzanman

macrumors 65816
Jul 16, 2010
1,304
15
Windows has made a lot of strides in the past few years.

NOT being the multi-market defacto monopoly has led to some (IMO) worthwhile changes in their behavior.

I like what they are attempting with the new Windows phone, and I am a fan of Windows 7. Its not perfect, but they are steps in the right direction.
 

surma884

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2011
109
0
I think Apple lost because Steve Jobs was fired back in 1984, not because Windows was more open. Same thing is happening right now with Microsoft. Steve Ballmer sucks. Coming out with Windows Phone 7 four years after iPhone came out?... Mac OS X sales are climbing. I see so many people with MacBook Pros.
 
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