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iPad 2 versus Windows 8 tablet video

GarytheiPhonema

GarytheiPhonema

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 19, 2011
58
0
California
Golly my sister was JUST asking me about the Windows 8 tablet yesterday and was wondering if it was better than the iPad.

I can't believe it has fans in it, which is why I'd never buy one. (Imagine trying to read in bed with a fan going..my wife would kill me!)

But I'm a little impressed with the early beta from Microsoft in the video. I wonder if Apple will try to do something similar maybe with OS X on an iPad?

http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/15/apples-ipad-2-and-new-windows-8-tablet-face-off-in-11-minute-video/
 
GarytheiPhonema said:
But I'm a little impressed with the early beta from Microsoft in the video. I wonder if Apple will try to do something similar maybe with OS X on an iPad?
Click to expand...
The thing with Microsoft and Apple is that even though MS is showing their "Post-PC convergence off first, Apple may actually beat them to the market because they have different ways of releasing software. MS gives us developer previews very early (too early?) while Apple wants to wait until the last second in order to build hype and hide the development process from the public. So who really knows when Win8 will be "real" or when iOSX will suddenly show up in the latest Apple conference.


Personally, Im entrenched in Apple's camp so I doubt I'd switch to Win8 for a primary machine, but Im definitely going to keep an eye on how things develop because I installed Win8 on a dummy system and its much more than the "fancy skin" that some people try to label it as. Im dying to get this running on my TouchPad when an ARM build comes out.

BTW.
Gizmodo: If You Already Hate Windows 8 Then You Hate Technology
People will try to shoot down the opinion because its Gizmodo, but it does make some good points. And for me, I find it boring to be only a fan of one company when there are so many interesting things happening in Tech.
 
GarytheiPhonema said:
I can't believe it has fans in it, which is why I'd never buy one. (Imagine trying to read in bed with a fan going..my wife would kill me!)
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that the Arm based Metro only tablets will be similar hardware to the iPad. The Tablet style devices that can still run the Desktop mode (or whatever its called now) will probably have to have a fan as they will still be using desktop/laptop class chips. Arm is supposed to be an SoC just like the A4/A5 in the iPad and will hopefully not need a fan and get better battery life than the demo Tablets MS has handed out. They specifically said not to review the batter on the reference hardware as it is not their idea of what a shipping Win8 Tablet will be or something like that.
 
I was corrected in another thread, but many fail boat Atom tablets are fanless, and there is even a i5 powered Panasonic tablet(ruggedized) that is fanless. Personally, think that sounds dangerous because x86 isn't a architecture you want to go fanless as they poor on performance, while produce a lot of heat, and using a lot of power.
 
Windows 8 tablet doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Nor does an Apple tablet worth comparing it to.

When I need to use Solidworks, Sketchup (lol sketchup), AutoCad, Visual Studio (or xcode I guess), Microsoft Office, or any type of word processing I go to my laptop PC, not my ipad.

When I want to read a textbook, play a game, browse the internet (I find that I actually waste less time browsing the internet now that I use my ipad exclusively for leisure-browsing), read a regular book, play a boardgame (didn't think I'd ever be that guy, but I love being able to play a friend in Small World or Settlers of Catan on a whim) I go to my iPad, not my laptop PC.

Windows 8 tablets will be PC's first, tablets second, no matter how they spin it. Hopefully it gets to the point where that becomes a good thing.

I currently have a Windows 7 convertible tablet (hp tm2) and I love it. Can't wait to get Windows 8 on it, but I don't really see windows 8 making it any more useful to me than it is now. The only thing I ever really use the tabletivity for (and the only reason I bought it over a regular laptop) is the WACOM pen.


Perhaps now that Jobs is gone, we'll finally see a real Apple Tablet (don't get me wrong, I love the iPad for what it is) with a real stylus. No matter how touch-friendly they make windows 8, it will be years before Windows ever has a comparable amount of touch-friendly apps, if that day ever comes (which I doubt it will).
 
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No disrespect intended, but you can't get much more inane than calling out the fan on the hardware. Microsoft is only using the hardware as a prototype, this is completely obvious. Win8 will run on Atom processors on up. If Apple gave developers prototype hardware to develop I'm sure there would be a million things which we could laugh at, but would have absolutely nothing to do with the final hardware.

With that said I think Win8 has a real chance at becoming something awesome, but it depends if Microsoft has learned from it's mistakes. Take the old Windows Mobile, it was completely awesome in those days to have something similar to a full Windows experience on a small screen. Microsofts blunder was that instead of making a completely unique small screen experience they instead continued to put small screen UI bandaids on top of the mobile OS. In the end the home screen was very useable on a small screen, as were some of the programs, but if you dug in you would find programs NOT designed for mobile screens, tiny taskbars and tiny controls to close windows and things like that.

If MS can truly make Win8 a mobile OS and unify the same OS under all the hardware, it will be well accepted. The ipad is great, but there is an undercurrent of users who are pining for something more, for a full OS on their tablet, not just the watered down grandmother one we have. Of course I don't want junk, in the end having Windows, even Windows 7 on a tablet is junk. But MS is really really showing that they understand this. I'm using the Windows 8 developer preview on my macbook air and it's very cool so far, I can see this working on a tablet. BUT... I do see the old windows UI popping up very often, and it reminds me of the windows mobile days. If the old desktop UI elements pop up on the tablet version IMO they are done, consumers will toss them aside like they did the earlier tablets and windows mobile devices.

Either way the competition is awesome and I can't wait to see what Apple does next.
 
Did anyone else feel a bit of jealousy regarding the tablet size/dimensions when watching the video?

Im not saying I necessarily the Windows Slate is a "better" size since Ive never used one and I don't know how it handles. But since I feel the 10" iPad is too big for daily travel then as a "House Tablet" then I kinda want a widescreen tablet (in addition to a 7" for taking on the road).
 
spinedoc77 said:
No disrespect intended, but you can't get much more inane than calling out the fan on the hardware. Microsoft is only using the hardware as a prototype, this is completely obvious. ...

The ipad is great, but there is an undercurrent of users who are pining for something more, for a full OS on their tablet, not just the watered down grandmother one we have. Of course I don't want junk, in the end having Windows, even Windows 7 on a tablet is junk. But MS is really really showing that they understand this. I'm using the Windows 8 developer preview on my macbook air and it's very cool so far, I can see this working on a tablet. BUT... I do see the old windows UI popping up very often, and it reminds me of the windows mobile days. If the old desktop UI elements pop up on the tablet version IMO they are done, consumers will toss them aside like they did the earlier tablets and windows mobile devices.

Either way the competition is awesome and I can't wait to see what Apple does next.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a very good and informative post. I'd only add the following...

Looking at the Samsung product on its own, not as a prototype for Windows 8 developers, but as a product running Windows 7, illustrates the still emerging definition of what constitutes a "tablet" device. In effect, it's a notebook/laptop computer with a separate keyboard. In fact, in terms of its specs, it's the Samsung Series 9 notebook in a unique form factor.

As you note, the software to make full use of the device without a keyboard is not there yet but the idea of a device that can be used as a full-fledged notebook computer AND in a "tablet" (i.e. a touch screen) mode is certainly not without merit. (This forum is filled with posts by users who want to use their iPads in precisely that fashion.)

Manufacturers are still feeling their way toward the form factors and features that make sense to consumers. What everyone wants, of course, is a 17" screen and a keyboard that weighs less than 16 oz, that can be put in a pocket and used for writing/typing/touching/talking/photography/etc. Since that is impossible, the art and science of design is making the right compromises. The Samsung "note-blet" is the first step in one approach. It won't be the last.
 
jsh1120 said:
Thanks for a very good and informative post. I'd only add the following...

Looking at the Samsung product on its own, not as a prototype for Windows 8 developers, but as a product running Windows 7, illustrates the still emerging definition of what constitutes a "tablet" device. In effect, it's a notebook/laptop computer with a separate keyboard. In fact, in terms of its specs, it's the Samsung Series 9 notebook in a unique form factor.

As you note, the software to make full use of the device without a keyboard is not there yet but the idea of a device that can be used as a full-fledged notebook computer AND in a "tablet" (i.e. a touch screen) mode is certainly not without merit. (This forum is filled with posts by users who want to use their iPads in precisely that fashion.)

Manufacturers are still feeling their way toward the form factors and features that make sense to consumers. What everyone wants, of course, is a 17" screen and a keyboard that weighs less than 16 oz, that can be put in a pocket and used for writing/typing/touching/talking/photography/etc. Since that is impossible, the art and science of design is making the right compromises. The Samsung "note-blet" is the first step in one approach. It won't be the last.
Click to expand...

Yes it's not just the software but the hardware that gives users what they want. What I was trying to illustrate, and I don't think I mentioned it going the other way, was how important it will be for MS to get the mobile experience right.

Hand in hand with this is how MS needs to get the desktop experience right as well, putting aside the "post PC" nonsense the desktop experience (which means laptop as well, whether its a true laptop or a tablet with a wireless keyboard or to a certain extent a tablet with a software keyboard) still is very important. I noted in my post the danger of MS letting "desktop" UI elements into the mobile experience, but the reverse danger is also true, putting too many mobile UI elements into the desktop experience. I cannot say I have the solution, or I'd be working for MS, but in using Win8 I can say that they have come MUCH closer to having a unified OS. Personally I'd rather have the same OS on all my devices, the same programs, the same options, etc., possibly though the UI is going to need to be tweaked for each situation to some degree.

As for input, I know I'm in the minority here but I think pen input is an awesome thing. I used to write full reports in Windows Mobile and it saddens me to remember just how accurate and useful the handwriting recognition was back then, but that I cannot do that in iOS, although from what I've researched this is more of a hardware/screen issue than software. I'm excited to get handwriting recognition again in Win8, it really is a VERY useful tool when you don't have a physical keyboard.

Overall I must say I'm very impressed with the dev build of Win8, specifically impressed how Microsoft is attempting to make a unified OS which will work regardless of hardware or paradigm.
 
spinedoc77 said:
Overall I must say I'm very impressed with the dev build of Win8, specifically impressed how Microsoft is attempting to make a unified OS which will work regardless of hardware or paradigm.
Click to expand...

I believe I read a clarification yesterday: The ARM based Windows 8 tablets will not run MS Office (Word, Excel, etc.). Only Intel based hardware will support the MS Office suite.

jdg
 
Should Win8 for tablets take off, it won't suprise me to see Apple bring out an OSXI (OK maybe OSXII) tablet to stay in the race. iOS iPads will still be popular though.
 
JohnDG said:
I believe I read a clarification yesterday: The ARM based Windows 8 tablets will not run MS Office (Word, Excel, etc.). Only Intel based hardware will support the MS Office suite.

jdg
Click to expand...

Complete untrue. I run Office on my Windows Phone. It's an ARM CPU. All that Microsoft needs to do is compile an arm port of Office 2010, or release the version that's on WP7.

And seriously, who cares if an i5 has a fan in it... a developer preview with an i5 at that!
 
thejadedmonkey said:
Complete untrue. I run Office on my Windows Phone. It's an ARM CPU. All that Microsoft needs to do is compile an arm port of Office 2010, or release the version that's on WP7.

And seriously, who cares if an i5 has a fan in it... a developer preview with an i5 at that!
Click to expand...

Because Lenovo has a fanless tablet with an i5 cpu.
 
coldmack said:
Because Lenovo has a fanless tablet with an i5 cpu.
Click to expand...

Can you cite the model you're talking about? I thought you might be referring to the X220T, but it has a fan.

In any event, the Samsung "note-blet" is simply a Samsung Series 9 notebook in a different form factor, not a designed from the ground up tablet. The Lenovo X220T is a smaller device designed for a different customer.
 
jsh1120 said:
Can you cite the model you're talking about? I thought you might be referring to the X220T, but it has a fan.

In any event, the Samsung "note-blet" is simply a Samsung Series 9 notebook in a different form factor, not a designed from the ground up tablet. The Lenovo X220T is a smaller device designed for a different customer.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant to say the other company Panasonic, I can't keep my failboats in order. http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/fully-rugged-handheld-toughbook-h2.asp
 
coldmack said:
Sorry, I meant to say the other company Panasonic, I can't keep my failboats in order. http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/fully-rugged-handheld-toughbook-h2.asp
Click to expand...

Actually, Panasonic Toughbooks sell (and work) quite well in the niche markets for which they're designed. In general, however, they are not designed as consumer (or even business) laptops. In the case of the H2, it's a 3.5 lb device meant to be used for specialized applications in especially adverse outside environments. As such, it's designed without a fan to seal it from the elements. It's not, however, designed to be a general function computer.
 
Take two tablets and don't call me in the morning

iPad aside.

Will we ever see a Microsoft product "that just works" ?

You know, no drivers, no patches, no registry?
No calls from your significant other or family member crying for help.

If and when it does make an appearance its care and feeding will most likely be more Android like.
 
noteple said:
iPad aside.

Will we ever see a Microsoft product "that just works" ?

You know, no drivers, no patches, no registry?
No calls from your significant other or family member crying for help.

If and when it does make an appearance its care and feeding will most likely be more Android like.
Click to expand...
Does the xbox count? Then again it is one of the only devices from MS that is using the superior PPC architecture, so I guess a bit different than most of their crapware they make.
 
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