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iPad iPad Air 2 vs new Surface 3?

sracer said:
But Windows 10 will be available for the Surface 3 as well. So I don't see how that makes the SP4 "worth the wait".

Windows 10 in its current form has some of the tablet-centric features removed... it is my understanding that the Charms bar is no longer present. Also, it isn't Windows itself that makes the Surface sub par as a tablet but the lack in the quantity of quality touch-optimized Modern UI apps. That is not going to be resolved with the introduction of the SP4 or Windows 10.
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I think you sound a little close minded to the whole Windows 10/SP4 think and I am not here to convince you. I am not interested in tocu apps. I want a full operating system that will run AutoCad and Quickbooks which Apple can not produce.

Enjoy your iPad.
 
Newtons Apple said:
I think you sound a little close minded to the whole Windows 10/SP4 think and I am not here to convince you. I am not interested in tocu apps. I want a full operating system that will run AutoCad and Quickbooks which Apple can not produce.

Enjoy your iPad.
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In other words, there is no evidence to support your claim that the SP4 would be worth the wait. :p

The OP asked about the Surface 3. You said wait for the SP4. There is nothing specific to the SP4 that will make it superior to the S3 for the OP's purposes.
 
sracer said:
In other words, there is no evidence to support your claim that the SP4 would be worth the wait. :p

The OP asked about the Surface 3. You said wait for the SP4. There is nothing specific to the SP4 that will make it superior to the S3 for the OP's purposes.
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How about your evidence that the SP4 with Win10 will not be superior to the SP3 with Win8.

There is life other than Apple, you might want to take those glasses off so you can see it!:p
 
With the keyboard attachment, the gaming possibilities are impressive. Would be fun to play fallout 3 on a tablet.
 
Newtons Apple said:
How about your evidence that the SP4 with Win10 will not be superior to the SP3 with Win8.

There is life other than Apple, you might want to take those glasses off so you can see it!:p
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I am a surface fan, but dont anticipate much improvement in surface 4/windows10 over surface3/windows8.x.

If you spend any time looking into windows10 you'll see its essentially windows 8.1 with some walking back of the modern interface for desktop users. On a tablet--windows 10 may be worse than windows 8.1--they haven't firmed up the tablet side other than to kill off charms.

There is a rumor the surface 4 pen will be improved. Microsoft said they were not changing the pro form factor for this release. who knows?
 
rowspaxe said:
I am a surface fan, but dont anticipate much improvement in surface 4/windows10 over surface3/windows8.x.

If you spend any time looking into windows10 you'll see its essentially windows 8.1 with some walking back of the modern interface for desktop users. On a tablet--windows 10 may be worse than windows 8.1--they haven't firmed up the tablet side other than to kill off charms.

There is a rumor the surface 4 pen will be improved. Microsoft said they were not changing the pro form factor for this release. who knows?
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From what I have read the S4 will be more improved than you indicated. We shall have to wait and see.
 
Newtons Apple said:
How about your evidence that the SP4 with Win10 will not be superior to the SP3 with Win8.

There is life other than Apple, you might want to take those glasses off so you can see it!:p
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The Surface 3 will have Windows 10 so I don't get what your saying. Why would you have a Surface 3 and not update it to Windows 10 when it is available?
 
Will22 said:
The Surface 3 will have Windows 10 so I don't get what your saying. Why would you have a Surface 3 and not update it to Windows 10 when it is available?
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The Surface 3 has Win 8 not 10 but can be updated when 10 is released.

I do not have a Surface 3, I have a Surface 3 Pro.

I will update my SP3 to Win10 when available but am looking forward to a more capable SP4 when it arrives, just like I am looking forward to seeing the iPad Pro, one day.
 
Newtons Apple said:
The Surface 3 has Win 8 not 10 but can be updated when 10 is released.

I do not have a Surface 3, I have a Surface 3 Pro.

I will update my SP3 to Win10 when available but am looking forward to a more capable SP4 when it arrives, just like I am looking forward to seeing the iPad Pro, one day.
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You can install windows 10 now if you want. Its surprisingly stable. I'm rocking with windows 10 now on my SP3.
 
Newtons Apple said:
So it is still working well for you? Do you consider the UI to be improved?
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Its one of those situations one step forward and two back, or is it two steps forward and one back??? The UI has improvements to be sure, but I'm not all that jazzed up about the icons - mostly the stuff you see on the desktop, i.e., This PC.

Overall I do think its a bit better then 8.1 as a whole, I don't see a need to use Start8 (or in win10's case Start10) to give me the windows 7 start menu. In windows 8.1 I needed that, but I've been using win10 without needing this utility.
 
maflynn said:
Its one of those situations one step forward and two back, or is it two steps forward and one back??? The UI has improvements to be sure, but I'm not all that jazzed up about the icons - mostly the stuff you see on the desktop, i.e., This PC.

Overall I do think its a bit better then 8.1 as a whole, I don't see a need to use Start8 (or in win10's case Start10) to give me the windows 7 start menu. In windows 8.1 I needed that, but I've been using win10 without needing this utility.
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Sounds great. My only problem would be AutoCad which I need to reference in the field. I am contacting AutoDesk today to see if they are ready for 10. If so I am going to give it a shot.

Thanks Sir.
 
Altis said:
...W10 will be designed with the Surface lineup specifically in mind.
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Ummm... no. It is designed for all Wintel machines capable of running it. It is not "specifically" designed for any machine, though, as with other OEMs, the S3 engineering team may create a customized set of drivers for their device. Win10 itself will be no different on S3 than any other machine.

To the OP: Office on iPads is actually pretty nice, and getting better all the time. It's also updated with new features quite often.
 
Beachguy said:
Ummm... no. It is designed for all Wintel machines capable of running it. It is not "specifically" designed for any machine, though, as with other OEMs, the S3 engineering team may create a customized set of drivers for their device. Win10 itself will be no different on S3 than any other machine.

To the OP: Office on iPads is actually pretty nice, and getting better all the time. It's also updated with new features quite often.
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You are misunderstanding me. Of course Windows 10 will be the same on the Surface lineup as it is on desktop and laptop platforms.

What I'm trying to say is that Windows 8 was made before the Surface 3 / Surface Pro 3. Now that Microsoft has a direction that it wants to steer those devices, it can tailor Windows 10 to be much better for them.

One example is the drop-down notification area, which Windows 8 lacks entirely. It's really great on the Surfaces to have, just as it is on the iPads.

I don't mean to say that Windows 10 will be designed exclusively for the Surfaces at the expense of the other platforms, simply that W10 will be made with Surfaces in mind, unlike Windows 8.
 
Altis said:
What I'm trying to say is that Windows 8 was made before the Surface 3 / Surface Pro 3. Now that Microsoft has a direction that it wants to steer those devices, it can tailor Windows 10 to be much better for them.

One example is the drop-down notification area, which Windows 8 lacks entirely. It's really great on the Surfaces to have, just as it is on the iPads.

I don't mean to say that Windows 10 will be designed exclusively for the Surfaces at the expense of the other platforms, simply that W10 will be made with Surfaces in mind, unlike Windows 8.
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There is nothing really unique about the surface as opposed to other windows tablets in terms of Windows software design. Windows 10--even in its tablet sku--appears less tablet centric than 8.x. I like windows
but i dont think MS has found a real plan yet.

They do seem to be giving some new thought to the ecosystem issue, but its a bigger problem than providing better dev tools. I will never rent a movie from xBox. Can I be the only one wondering why there is no itunes, play equivalant

I often think, "what if Microsoft has spent a billion dollars on the Windows store instead of surface rt overstock."
 
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rowspaxe said:
There is nothing really unique about the surface as opposed to other windows tablets in terms of Windows software design. Windows 10--even in its tablet sku--appears less tablet centric than 8.x. I like windows
but i dont think MS has found a real plan yet.

They do seem to be giving some new thought to the ecosystem issue, but its a bigger problem than providing better dev tools. I will never rent a movie from xBox. Can I be the only one wondering why there is no itunes, play equivalant.
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They did. Some would argue that what they had was superior to what Apple provided. The Zune software for the desktop was far nicer and useful than iTunes. Microsoft never fully fleshed-out the functionality on the video and photo side of things, but for music, it was terrific. Even their Zune Pass service was very unique.

After working so hard to overcome the stigma caused by the initial Zune launch (hurt in part by their goofy overhyped under-delivered Origami initiative), they killed the whole thing before ever really giving its latest incarnation a chance to succeed.

They bet that their XBox branding was better than Zune. For gaming yes, for media.. meh.


rowspaxe said:
I often think, "what if Microsoft has spent a billion dollars on the Windows store instead of surface rt overstock."
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Good point. But with every product line they kill or reboot they damage their reputation with developers. Some of that damage can be repaired but there's always a portion that it gone forever.

The more they trip up, the greater the hurdle to overcome. They never quite fill up the hole they dig for themselves before digging that deeper hole.
 
sracer said:
They did. Some would argue that what they had was superior to what Apple provided. The Zune software for the desktop was far nicer and useful than iTunes. Microsoft never fully fleshed-out the functionality on the video and photo side of things, but for music, it was terrific. Even their Zune Pass service was very unique.

After working so hard to overcome the stigma caused by the initial Zune launch (hurt in part by their goofy overhyped under-delivered Origami initiative), they killed the whole thing before ever really giving its latest incarnation a chance to succeed.

They bet that their XBox branding was better than Zune. For gaming yes, for media.. meh.



Good point. But with every product line they kill or reboot they damage their reputation with developers. Some of that damage can be repaired but there's always a portion that it gone forever.

The more they trip up, the greater the hurdle to overcome. They never quite fill up the hole they dig for themselves before digging that deeper hole.
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Nice post. This pretty much sums up my experience with Microsoft. I had a Zune and thought it was great. The Zune Pass made it even better. Folks here slammed anyone who posted about Apple offering a similar service. Now, everyone wants to pay monthly to stream. Go figure.

The Surface 3 is really interesting to me. At $500, it's capabilities are FAR beyond the iPad. But then there are little annoyances that shouldn't be there. The plastic antenna cover is also part of the screen border. It doesn't feel nice as you drag your finger across it. In fact, it gives. If you tug at it a bit, you can pull it away from the screen. Seems like an obvious design issue. Then there is the lack of smooth scrolling. Sort of annoying when using a mouse or trackpad. Extremely frustrating when using touch. These and other details make or break a product for me.

Aside from all that, I don't have much confidence in Microsoft sticking with Surface long term. History as a lesson, they will get it good enough to where I'll want to buy it, then they'll abandon it for the next shiny object.
 
You can't compare the two. If you're strictly looking for a tablet the iPad Air 2 is the best tablet on the market. If you're looking for something that runs a desktop operating system for tasks that a tablet can't perform get a surface 3. I think it's a neat concept but I wouldn't buy one. Also that $499 price isn't including the 129 dollar keyboard.
 
sracer said:
But with every product line they kill or reboot they damage their reputation with developers. Some of that damage can be repaired but there's always a portion that it gone forever.
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I always think of the RT debacle from a consumer rather than developer perspective--but your point is well taken.

My thing is--given a successful implementation of universal apps and cross platform development tools--the windows store is such a mess who could market a successful app through it? Its a real challege for Microsoft--and one no one in the company or covering the company seems interested in it
 
Mr. Buzzcut said:
Then there is the lack of smooth scrolling. Sort of annoying when using a mouse or trackpad. Extremely frustrating when using touch. These and other details make or break a product for me.
.
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I have read watched a score of surface 3 reviews issues and this issue has never come up. Are you doing heavy tabs in chrome on 2gb's ram? I used the product in best buy for about 40 minutes and did not experience a glitch. I own the pro 2 and have never had a touch issue.

That said--surface is not nearly as slick as the ipad. its power on/off is not really at an apple level, but its not an issue for me. The surface does support a very natural pen experience, and there is really nothing in the apple world that can touch it

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Beachguy said:
Win10 itself will be no different on S3 than any other machine.
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What if windows 10 is a disaster and faces a full on market rejection like windows 8. It seems not only possible, but likely. Reading comments it seems the start menu with metto tiles is loathed. MS is eliminating the only tablet workflows I like. The tech press is asleep--just like windows 8. Personally I will hold 8.1 as long into 2016 as possible
 
Newtons Apple said:
How about your evidence that the SP4 with Win10 will not be superior to the SP3 with Win8.

There is life other than Apple, you might want to take those glasses off so you can see it!:p
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I'm tempted to begin recommending against Surfaces as I've had quite a few calls with them giving electric shocks while charging (doesn't happen when running on battery). Surfaces we've supplied ~1 and a half years ago (SP2 & SP3) are beginning to have these problems. A look online seems to indicate this is not an isolated issue by any means. Something to do with the magnesium casing I believe.

I'm hoping MS will fix this with the SP4.

Has anybody else had this issue?
 
keysofanxiety said:
I'm tempted to begin recommending against Surfaces as I've had quite a few calls with them giving electric shocks while charging (doesn't happen when running on battery). Surfaces we've supplied ~1 and a half years ago (SP2 & SP3) are beginning to have these problems. A look online seems to indicate this is not an isolated issue by any means. Something to do with the magnesium casing I believe.

I'm hoping MS will fix this with the SP4.

Has anybody else had this issue?
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I am not giving up on the SPro because a few are having problems. There have been a few reports of iPad shocking the user but that does not mean we should quit using them.

Have you checked your car's airbag lately? Who is going to quit driving while waiting for a couple of years to get the bag replaced?
 
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