iPad and Mac are merging (more or less)

[Jglez]

Hi,
I have noticed there are already several threads talking about a touchscreen coming to the Mac since iPad apps without a touchscreen would be useless.

What I think is worth noting is that it is also likely (in my opinion) that Mac apps will run on the iPad.

Why? I believe in this since once a Mac app is compiled for ARM, it can just as well run in the iPad (With the Magic Keyboard Case).

This would solve for Apple the issue of having a lack of professional apps in the iPad.

The difference between the iPad and Mac if both are running ARM and Touchscreens becomes clear: One is an innovative form factor that has a detachable keyboard and can be a tablet, as well as a spin on how multitasking and UIs should look, the other one is one aluminum piece with a traditional form factor.

What do you think on my take?

 

[chabig]

No.

 

[casperes1996]

Yeah, no, I don't think so.

For one thing, a Mac app compiled for ARM can't 'just run' on iPad. macOS got the UIKit framework from iOS to run Catalyst apps, but AppKit does not exist on iPadOS, and would be a lot more tricky to port over in a sensible way. Secondly there are restrictions on iPadOS that means Mac apps generally wouldn't really work either, because in addition to AppKit macOS apps sometimes rely on things like Java or various interpreters and other software components that I don't see Apple allowing on the iPad.
Mac apps are generally made for cursor input even if touch becomes an option eventually (which I still don't think either), but while you can hit a touch target with a mouse, hitting cursor targets with a touch device can be more tricky, and trackpad and mice are optional on iPad. The whole desktop environment Mac apps are built around doesn't really translate to iPadOS; What about menu bar items with popover Windows? Apps that rely on several NSWindow objects; You could perhaps have two on iPadOS even three with slideover, but the iPad UI doesn't scale to those apps.

No, with SwiftUI as the framework we could have apps that are written pretty much identically between iPadOS and macOS but are still distinct application bundles, and that's the closest you'll get

 

[DeanL]

Agreed with @casperes1996.
Remember: iPadOS / iOS versions are simplified versions of macOS. Therefore most apps would run on ARM macOS without issues, especially since Catalyst.
But the opposite is not really possible without turning iPadOS / iOS into macOS.

 

[Ursadorable]

For one thing, a Mac app compiled for ARM can't 'just run' on iPad.

Yet.

 

[casperes1996]

Yet.

Did you ignore the rest of my post intentionally? AppKit is a big framework. And that's just one of many components of macOS that are not on iPadOS. The goal is to let UIKit and SwiftUI be portable through Apple's platforms, not to let AppKit code run on iPads.

Code that is inter compatible, yes, but not application bundles that just run

 

[Spock]

I think the iPad Pro with magic keyboard is the device that will bridge the gap between ARM MacOS and iPadOS at some point.

 

[Ursadorable]

Did you ignore the rest of my post intentionally?

Not at all. I just think it's shortsighted to believe Apple is not working on merging the two platforms in some fashion since both will be using the same architecture. Imagine app handoff.. working on a document on your iMac at home then finishing it on the train.

 

[casperes1996]

Not at all. I just think it's shortsighted to believe Apple is not working on merging the two platforms in some fashion since both will be using the same architecture. Imagine app handoff.. working on a document on your iMac at home then finishing it on the train.

Right... You can do that perfectly fine already without the operating systems needing to become one. I'm not saying Apple isn't going to further improve continuity. I'm not saying iOS and macOS won't be very similar in underlying technology and Apple will certainly continue to use the same code for a lot of shared elements of both platforms. But they will stay separate. Not short-sighted; On the contrary. Don't use a hammer on a screw or a screwdriver on a nail

 

[DisraeliGears]

Another thought I had, once MacOS becomes native for ARM architecture, would there be the possibility of dual-booting an iPad Pro with iPadOs and with MacOS? It would be very unlikely that Apple would sanction such a thing, but one can dream...

I don’t see Mac and iPad entirely merging, but I do think that Apple might eventually replace the entry level MacBooks (Air/Regular) in the lineup with expandable iPad computing devices. That would leave the MacBook Pro and iMac as professional level devices. My two cents 🤷‍♂️

 

[casperes1996]

Another thought I had, once MacOS becomes native for ARM architecture, would there be the possibility of dual-booting an iPad Pro with iPadOs and with MacOS? It would be very unlikely that Apple would sanction such a thing, but one can dream...

I don’t see Mac and iPad entirely merging, but I do think that Apple might eventually replace the entry level MacBooks (Air/Regular) in the lineup with expandable iPad computing devices. That would leave the MacBook Pro and iMac as professional level devices. My two cents 🤷‍♂️

In theory; Absolutely, yes. The DTK is essentially an iPad with more ports in the chassis of a Mac mini without the iPad display and touch layer and such running macOS... Okay, perhaps it's not exactly just an iPad running macOS, but in terms of the chips inside it, it is

 

[Ethosik]

I really do not understand the obsession with touch screen systems. I had a Surface Pro 2. I had a Surface Laptop 2. I only used the touch screen when someone asked me "Is that a touch screen" and I responded with "yes, see". That is all. Having your hand resting on your desk moving a mouse while you work for 8 hours with a lunch break is much better for your arm than having it up in the air for 8 hours a day at least.

Windows 8 was actually more suited for touch screen. There were compromises with Windows 10 where I actually do not like using it with a touch screen as much. You cannot have a desktop/touch interface the exact same.

 

[JMacHack]

At one point I'd have said you were crazy, but I changed my mind about it not too long ago.

When I was shopping for a Macbook Air for my sister she looked at the iMacs and the first thing she did was touch the screen. That's the first instinct of younger users is to assume things have a touch screen, and going into the future, the generation that grew up with smartphones and iPads are gonna be more used to touch screen devices anyway.

I think it's inevitable that devices will go touchscreen at this point, maybe it'll be 10 years from now or something but kids now are growing up with touch-interface devices and that's gonna be the driving consumer market eventually.

 

[Moonjumper]

There are fundamental differences between macOS that is primarily based around vertical screen use and iPadOS primarily based around horizontal screen use. The switch to Arm processors does not change that, but the addition of keyboard and mouse options to the iPad does increase the chances of devices designed to dual boot, but they will always be a compromise. A MacBook has all the weight in the base and no need for a kickstand as an example of something that will be difficult to overcome for something that can also be used handheld as a touchscreen. But the only thing physically stopping current iPads from being used for macOS (when they have keyboard and mouse attached) is a lack of RAM.

 

[leman]

I think it's inevitable that devices will go touchscreen at this point, maybe it'll be 10 years from now or something but kids now are growing up with touch-interface devices and that's gonna be the driving consumer market eventually.

I completely agree with you that one day in the future, computers will be so efficient, and connectivity so ubiquitous, that personal desktop will disappear as a category. A small mobile device will most likely have enough power to serve as a personal computer. But that will be a completely new programming paradigm. Until we are there, current split into different device types is meaningful and there us no indication that a Apple us in any form or shape trying to change this.

 

[JMacHack]

I completely agree with you that one day in the future, computers will be so efficient, and connectivity so ubiquitous, that personal desktop will disappear as a category. A small mobile device will most likely have enough power to serve as a personal computer. But that will be a completely new programming paradigm. Until we are there, current split into different device types is meaningful and there us no indication that a Apple us in any form or shape trying to change this.

Oh I'm not saying they have plans to do it in the near future. But I do think they'll have to reverse course on it eventually. My generation grew up on GUIs after all, and the generation before wasn't, so they had to adjust. I think with touch-focused interfaces we're gonna see that same shift. You and me are used to the current paradigm, and we're the major consumer power right now, so we're not likely gonna see the transition while that's still the case.

Also as a counterpoint to your small mobile device assertion:
For the "average person" we're already at the point where a mobile phone can be used as a basic personal computer. In fact, my boss runs his business nearly entirely from his iPhone 6. Kids today do their homework and use the internet on Chromebooks and iPads, and they socialize through mobile apps. That required using a desktop and bringing assignments to and from school on floppy disks when I was their age!

However, there's no real stopping the march of technology. A category I can think of where the personal desktop rules, and shows no signs of slowing down is gaming. With new releases needing ever more horsepower to run them I can't see purely mobile devices taking over that category any time soon, maybe ever. Phones now are a magnitude more powerful than desktops 20 years ago, but in those 20 years the need for power has grown too.

And (though I don't think you included this definition when you said "Personal Desktop" but I'll include it for arguments sake) there's also the HEDT market, which can never get enough. And likely isn't going to ever be served solely by mobile devices.

 

[brzy25]

IpadOS is locked down, Mac has to be open to run non-app store software cause its used as a development machine. They can't merge the OS's due to that.

I've actually done all my written assignments on my phone using word the past few years, my laptop's only come out when I run into a formatting or file type wall. or graphics stuff.

 

[bousozoku]

I really do not understand the obsession with touch screen systems. I had a Surface Pro 2. I had a Surface Laptop 2. I only used the touch screen when someone asked me "Is that a touch screen" and I responded with "yes, see". That is all. Having your hand resting on your desk moving a mouse while you work for 8 hours with a lunch break is much better for your arm than having it up in the air for 8 hours a day at least.

Windows 8 was actually more suited for touch screen. There were compromises with Windows 10 where I actually do not like using it with a touch screen as much. You cannot have a desktop/touch interface the exact same.

I had a touch-enabled Lenovo Flex 3 for a while and it felt moronic to try to use it as a tablet, even though it could do it. It was too heavy and too cumbersome for that use. I could see a use for the tent-mode capability when working with a customer on a graphic design or photos.

As for Apple merging, macOS and iOS, the trackpad, even the bigger trackpad, isn't quite right. I don't see Apple bringing some brilliant solution to make both close.