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IPAD GPS or NOT?

P

Prynce

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 4, 2008
91
0
I know IPHONES and IPADS don't have real GPS receiver chips, so how can Apple get away from implying that IPAD users can use "Find My IPAD" feature if it don't have Cellular support?

Excerpt from Mobile Me link on front page titles learn more:
http://www.apple.com/mobileme/news/2010/04/setting-up-mobileme-on-ipad.html

Setting Up MobileMe on iPad
You can access your MobileMe mail, contacts, calendars, and bookmarks on iPad and use Find My iPad if it's missing.

To set up MobileMe, follow these steps:

On your iPad home screen tap Settings
Tap Mail, Contacts, Calendars and check that Fetch New Data is set to Push
Tap Add Account, choose MobileMe, and enter your account information
Tap Next and turn on Mail, Contacts, Calendars, Bookmarks, and Find My iPad. Tap Save.

Find My iPad will be available immediately (go to me.com/find to try it), and your other information will be available as soon as iPad finishes the initial over-the-air sync with MobileMe. If you haven't already, remember to also sync your Mac or PC with MobileMe.
 
iPhone 3g/3gs and iPad 3g have real GPS receiver chips. Also, you can find your iPad/iPhone by triangulating WiFi networks, which is a far better way. You can't get GPS signals indoors so GPS won't help you anyway unless you left your iPad in the park
 
It works on my WiFi only 16G iPad if it is on and connected to a WiFi hot spot. I can find my iPad from my iPhone.

I'll admit I haven't tried it the other way around but can see not reason why it wouldn't work also.
 
Tom G. said:
It works on my WiFi only 16G iPad if it is on and connected to a WiFi hot spot. I can find my iPad from my iPhone.

I'll admit I haven't tried it the other way around but can see not reason why it wouldn't work also.
Click to expand...

It doesn't need to be connected to a WiFi hotspot. As long as there are WiFi networks around you (which, unless you are living in a rural neighborhood, there will be) it'll work.
 
Prynce said:
I know IPHONES and IPADS don't have real GPS receiver chips, so how can Apple get away from implying that IPAD users can use "Find My IPAD" feature if it don't have Cellular support?
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about ?! My iPhone 3GS does use GPS for positioning, it doesn't rely on tower triangulation.

I just went to me.com, requested the location of my devices and both popped up within 20 seconds. In fact, the iPad showed up quicker.

The iPad uses a system called skyhook. They have a massive database that shows the location of millions of access points. They have both the SSID and Mac address of the device. You do NOT need to be connected to the device in order to get this information. Although I am not 100% sure you can get the Mac address off a device without finishing the encryption handshake. But welp, looking at KisMac I see 2 unencrypted networks in close range. However, it will need to be connect to a known network in order to send this information back. Its not perfect by any means, but does work.

There are 3 methods of location services the iPhone OS can do.

- Tower triangulation
- GPS
- Skyhook
 
Just for giggles I decided to try to "find my iPhone" from my iPad. It worked fine and I successfully placed a message on it. So it does work both ways.

I see no reason for your original question doubting the ability of the iPad to work with "Find my iPad."

Adding a note: This experiment was actually three way as my iMac reported that the message I sent from my iPad to my iPhone was received. Isn't Mobile Me terrific?
 
Prynce said:
I know IPHONES and IPADS don't have real GPS receiver chips, so how can Apple get away from implying that IPAD users can use "Find My IPAD" feature if it don't have Cellular support?
.
Click to expand...

Either you misspoke or are very confused. Iphones (3G and 3GS) and iPad (3G) do in fact have real GPS receivers. Assisted GPS means they use cell towers and wifi data to speed things up and when it can not receive GPS data. Assisted GPS is better than plain GPS not worse.

Original iPhones use wifi and cell towers for location data and iPads use wifi hot spots for location data. I do not think the original iPhone works with find my iPhone and I do not know if the Wifi iPad works with find my iPad.
 
drjsway said:
It doesn't need to be connected to a WiFi hotspot. As long as there are WiFi networks around you (which, unless you are living in a rural neighborhood, there will be) it'll work.
Click to expand...

In order for 'Find my Ipad' to work, the iPad must be connected to a WiFi network. For 'Find my iPad' to work it needs to talk to the iPad, hence the iPad must be on a network.

A.
 
Alrescha said:
In order for 'Find my Ipad' to work, the iPad must be connected to a WiFi network. The iPad can find itself without that, but in order for 'Find my iPad' to work it needs to talk to the iPad, hence the iPad must be on a network.

A.
Click to expand...

How does the iPad find itself without being connected to a network?
 
wovel said:
Original iPhones use wifi and cell towers for location data and iPads use wifi hot spots for location data. I do not think the original iPhone works with find my iPhone and I do not know if the Wifi iPad works with find my iPad.
Click to expand...

I have the original and 3G iPhones here. Both can use Find my iPhone but the 3G is far better at it. The 3G nails the exact location easily. Without a Skyhook location the 2G just gives me a very broad location via cell tower locating. It's not very accurate and would put it in roughly a square mile+ area. Without a Skyhook location, about all it is good for would be to help you remember where you left your phone if you've been to several diverse places. If you were six different places in a couple of square miles Find my iPhone and the 2G aren't much help.
 
Alrescha said:
Ummn.. it caches the entire Skyhook database? Ok, maybe not. :)

A.
Click to expand...

Your explanation was very good right up to that one little item. Even with Skyhook referenced area, the iPad would need to connect to something so it could get the location information. That was the advantage the iPhone 2G had. It could see wifi hotspots and then poll Skyhook via edge for a location. Without the cell side it needs to get to Skyhook to look up the hotspots on a live Internet connection. Well written information otherwise though.
 
One of the interesting things that I've noticed about the wifi iPad is that it keeps its connection to the local wifi network alive even when asleep. This way, it can keep checking e-mail and whatnot while sleeping. This also, assuming that you're in range of a wifi network, allows Find My iPad to work fine with it - I used it yesterday when my roommate had hidden my iPad.
 
drjsway said:
iPhone 3g/3gs and iPad 3g have real GPS receiver chips. Also, you can find your iPad/iPhone by triangulating WiFi networks, which is a far better way. You can't get GPS signals indoors so GPS won't help you anyway unless you left your iPad in the park
Click to expand...

Has anyone got a picture of the GPS Receiver chip in any IPHONE, because both Iphone and IPAD 3G descriptions say nothing about an actual chip, but only list assistive GPS therefore only implying that it uses only cell towers to coordinate its response. Just check the Apple website to verify this. Just curious, if you got links to a breakdown of a Iphone showing the GPS chip it would be appreciated.


And as for WiFi location finding by mobileme, how the HECK does mobileme have a PERSONAL IP include someones personal address information included with the IP, ie for example a friends home wifi router? I sense a breach of privacy without warrants by ISP's if that is the indeed the case? Please elaborate how this is done so as to answer how a breach of privacy is avoided if what some say is the case of a IPAD being located by a WIFI network. I can see Commercial Networks having public address info.
 
/dev/toaster said:
WTF are you talking about ?! My iPhone 3GS does use GPS for positioning, it doesn't rely on tower triangulation.

I just went to me.com, requested the location of my devices and both popped up within 20 seconds. In fact, the iPad showed up quicker.

The iPad uses a system called skyhook. They have a massive database that shows the location of millions of access points. They have both the SSID and Mac address of the device. You do NOT need to be connected to the device in order to get this information. Although I am not 100% sure you can get the Mac address off a device without finishing the encryption handshake. But welp, looking at KisMac I see 2 unencrypted networks in close range. However, it will need to be connect to a known network in order to send this information back. Its not perfect by any means, but does work.

There are 3 methods of location services the iPhone OS can do.

- Tower triangulation
- GPS
- Skyhook
Click to expand...

However, Skyhook should not have personal IP's and WiFi info, if so where do they get this information? Tower Triangulation is a given understanding for me. But no where does Apple indicate beyond that in its technical specs description such as a GPS receiver.
 
Prynce said:
However, Skyhook should not have personal IP's and WiFi info, if so where do they get this information? Tower Triangulation is a given understanding for me. But no where does Apple indicate beyond that in its technical specs description such as a GPS receiver.
Click to expand...

They do not use IP address to determine where you are. Skyhook people literary drove in a van around the country (and globe) and capture the information of your wireless network such as SSID and Mac Address.

**************************: http://tinyurl.com/yd9k6tp

To pinpoint location, XPS uses a massive reference network comprised of the known locations of over 100 million Wi-Fi access points and cellular towers. To develop this database, Skyhook has deployed drivers to survey every single street, highway, and alley in tens of thousands of cities and towns worldwide, scanning for Wi-Fi access points and cell towers plotting their precise geographic locations. Skyhook's extensive coverage area includes most major metro areas in North America, Europe, Asia, and Australia.
Click to expand...

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/coverage.php
and
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/
 
Prynce said:
Has anyone got a picture of the GPS Receiver chip in any IPHONE, because both Iphone and IPAD 3G descriptions say nothing about an actual chip, but only list assistive GPS therefore only implying that it uses only cell towers to coordinate its response. Just check the Apple website to verify this. Just curious, if you got links to a breakdown of a Iphone showing the GPS chip it would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

You really need to learn how to use Google. The iPhone 3G chip and antenna connector as posted on ZDNet:

iphone_gps_02b_sm.jpg


The 3G and 3GS side-by-side showing the GPS chip placement slightly different between the two:

iphone-3g-s-board-compare1.jpg


Is that good enough for you? Yes, there's a real chip. There's pictures.
 
Why does nobody ever understand what assisted GPS is?

Assisted GPS= a real GPS chip+tower/WiFi triangulation to speed up the process.

The WiFi iPad only has triangulation (which is why Apple's site does not say the WiFi version has GPS). The 3G iPad and both iPhone3G and 3GS have Assisted GPS.
 
Prynce said:
Has anyone got a picture of the GPS Receiver chip in any IPHONE, because both Iphone and IPAD 3G descriptions say nothing about an actual chip, but only list assistive GPS therefore only implying that it uses only cell towers to coordinate its response. Just check the Apple website to verify this. Just curious, if you got links to a breakdown of a Iphone showing the GPS chip it would be appreciated.


And as for WiFi location finding by mobileme, how the HECK does mobileme have a PERSONAL IP include someones personal address information included with the IP, ie for example a friends home wifi router? I sense a breach of privacy without warrants by ISP's if that is the indeed the case? Please elaborate how this is done so as to answer how a breach of privacy is avoided if what some say is the case of a IPAD being located by a WIFI network. I can see Commercial Networks having public address info.
Click to expand...

A-GPS is real GPS, it's just ASSISTED by your cell network. If not the iPhone would probably take twice as long to find your position. Your phone already has a general idea of where you're at based cell tower triangulation, so when you tap the current location button it uses that information to find your location even faster.

Hence, Assisted GPS
 
TheMacBookPro said:
Why does nobody ever understand what assisted GPS is?

Assisted GPS= a real GPS chip+tower/WiFi triangulation to speed up the process.

The WiFi iPad only has triangulation (which is why Apple's site does not say the WiFi version has GPS). The 3G iPad and both iPhone3G and 3GS have Assisted GPS.
Click to expand...

Because its a new term, that may have been completely explained to you but never explained to common man or woman.
 
dejo said:
My iPad location accuracy is noticeably better than my iPod touch. It's eerily accurate. I could swear this thing has GPS.
Click to expand...

Skyhook is generally very accurate. I had the opportunity to watch a technical presentation by a couple of their engineers at a conference last week. Their self-healing location database is quite impressive, from a technical standpoint.

Prynce said:
Because its a new term, that may have been completely explained to you but never explained to common man or woman
Click to expand...

So whenever you don't understand something, you post an outraged diatribe on a online forum instead of doing a little research to educate yourself? Welcome to MacRumors, you'll fit right in!:D
 
A little research goes a long way

Prynce said:
Because its a new term, that may have been completely explained to you but never explained to common man or woman.
Click to expand...

But before not only starting a post, and then denying what everyone was already saying, it would be safe to assume that one would do a simple google search to inform himself.
 
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