iPad Helping Book Publishers Gain More Control Over eBook Pricing

[xchric]

And this is news is proundly announced?

how pathetic ...

 

[steve-p]

I'm sure they're just working on rights, and then the rest of the world will get it. Why are people shocked when Apple (a US corporation) gets rights settled in the USA first? It's awfully complicated to go worldwide with something like a bookstore, where you have a huge amount of legacy copyright laws and agreements in place.

I'm sure they are, but it's hard to avoid the question that raises about the iBooks app. No book agreements in a country = no iBooks app either, therefore iBooks may not be able to read anything other than Apple's eBooks. Otherwise why not advertise the iBooks app.

 

[cmaier]

I'm sure they are, but it's hard to avoid the question that raises about the iBooks app. No book agreements in a country = no iBooks app either, therefore iBooks may not be able to read anything other than Apple's eBooks. Otherwise why not advertise the iBooks app.

Because apple doesn't want to go out of their way to benefit other e-book purveyors.

 

[fago]

If you've bothered to read some of the other sources available on the the thread you know.

Let me be very snotty here. Threads like these show most MacRumors forums readers to be absymally ignorant of business. They have no idea what kind of margins businesses run on, whether it's manufacturing or publishing.

You have to pay editors. You have to pay copyeditors (and, no, they're not the same; one is for creative structure, one is for continuity, punctuation and typos). You have to pay for marketing. You have to pay for acquisition and author development.

Publishing is labor intensive; the economic structure of the business reflects that.

Oh great, snottiness now. About time to abandon this thread.

I was asking a question, because unless you are in the particular industry you don't have the relevant facts. This is by design, as such information is very sensitive. As an engineer, I certainly do know about business economics, just not in publishing.

And I've read the entire thread, and commented on those sources (linked to _after_ my post), and answered my own question.

Still, to me the question is not about price, but what exactly we are going to be buying.

Is $14 justified for a RENTAL? If I were a publisher, would you let me come into your bedroom, peruse your book shelves, and remove whatever I like, whenever I want?

 

[elfin]

pricing.

I love free content and cheap books as much as the next person, but I also realize that the publishers need to pay talent for their works, and that they need to realize a profit or they can't stay in business.

Jobs is very good at negotiation. I will wait and see the end product.

 

[nelmat]

Isn't a group of near monopolies (i.e. The Publishers) not allowing books to be sold for a lower price actually the very definition of price fixing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

No, it's not. The owner of content should be able to set their own price point. If people don't like that price point, the content owner doesn't sell many units.

This is basic economics folks, nothing new.

If you don't like what is being charged, don't buy the product. It's really simple. But don't complain at a companies right to charge what they think their product is worth.

 

[DTphonehome]

Because apple doesn't want to go out of their way to benefit other e-book purveyors.

So they'll make their own app. Problem solved. Just like Amazon Kindle Reader is available for the iPhone... B&N and others can do the same if they want to sell content to iPhone/iPad owners in other countries. Which makes me hopeful that Adobe will release an ereader app which will allow borrowing books from libraries in the protected EPUB format.

 

[fago]

There are trade-offs with digital content and we'll see how it goes. I'm not sure how DRM will play into this so it's hard to wade into those waters. True, you can't get rid of an eBook the way you could a physical book, but ask yourself WHY you want to get rid of your books. Is it for the $1.50 you get at the used bookstore or is it because you simply don't have room for all of them? I say it's the latter. Your book will be on the iPad(s) you own, on your computer and online at Apple. Most likely, you'll be able to re-download the book if you had to (a fire burns your computer and ipad up) so your protected.

As for me, I know a year or so down the line, I'm going to buy iPad 2.0 too. This will free up iPad 1.0 as my loaner. You can delete music and photos you don't want your friends/family to have to wade through, but they can enjoy your ALL your digital media, including any eBook they're wanting to sample. Probably make a convert to the iPad cause this way too.

Really, now with a digital book shelf, why would you want to get rid of a great book?

They'll never do that again. Bad mistake and it won't be repeated. Apple is a little smarter than that. They read "1984", I think, and know the lines that can and can't be crossed.

I say NO. Why? You can't CLONE a physical book -- well you could Xerox one, but no one does this. However, they have to keep the prices a bit higher than YOU would expect to offset those that know how to pirate the digital file and share it all over the place. The same reason Photoshop is still $699 on the store shelf.

$1-2? Confused. Where do you rent your movies? Even on iTunes, they're $2.99 and $3.99 for HD. You're not being realistic. $4 --> HD content for 24 hours. You watch it once, maybe twice if it's really good and then POOF. Gone.

I think a book is a lot more important than that. Some books I have read over and over, again, every few years. Many I don't... why? Because they're in the attic in a box because I don't have room for them.

Good thing about books on the iBookstore is that they will go down. I recently priced Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" series books and on the Kindle, they're all around $6.50 -- These were all BESTSELLERS in their day for $30 a pop in a store. I can't wait to finally wade into the digital book world on a terrific price with such a great series that I've always wanted to read. Ultimately, if you don't want to pay $13-15 for a BESTSELLER, just wait... in 6 months, they'll be the $9.99 that most are wanting now. Unlike music, which will stay at $9.99 as an album for the unforseeable future, books are variable and will see deeper discounts. Somethings we might have to wait for, but in the meantime, there's a book you didn't get to read 3 years ago that you will now at a great price.

Patience, people, patience.

To me, the worst thing about DRM is that you don't own anything. If the DRM servers get turned off (this has happened!), all your books are toast. If I decide to get a JooJooPad (or whatever) your books are toast unless Apple/Amazon etc decide otherwise. This goes on and on. To use your own example: how old are some of those books in your attic? 25-30 years old? Do you _really_ think that a 30 year old eBook will still be readable, if locked down with DRM?

I get the space saving issue: I currently use Stanza on iPhone, with DRM free classics etc.

As for marginal costs, yes it seems publishing is overwhelmingly fixed costs. However, stating that prices need to be inflated due to piracy is short sighted. To refute this, I note the prices of DRM-free music as well as the recent experiment by O'Reilly publishing: DRM free ebooks increased piracy, but also increased sales by ~100%. Seems to me that DRM is unnecessary...

Time and time again, in industry after industry, it has been shown that DRM hurts paying consumers, but only slightly inconveniences pirates. No matter the DRM, how long would it take it hook up OCR to an iPad?

Ok, $5 for a rental. Movie rentals are more upfront about the whole thing with a definite time period, etc. I could even take a rented DVD/BD to a friends house if I wish. Try that with an iTunes rental.

 

[TMay]

Oh great, snottiness now. About time to abandon this thread.

I was asking a question, because unless you are in the particular industry you don't have the relevant facts. This is by design, as such information is very sensitive. As an engineer, I certainly do know about business economics, just not in publishing.

And I've read the entire thread, and commented on those sources (linked to _after_ my post), and answered my own question.

Still, to me the question is not about price, but what exactly we are going to be buying.

Is $14 justified for a RENTAL? If I were a publisher, would you let me come into your bedroom, peruse your book shelves, and remove whatever I like, whenever I want?

Not sure what you are asking.

The base argument between Pubisher and distributor is regarding variable pricing. Starts at 14.99 as a new release and over time, is reduced in price. As for DRM, I suspect that Apple will have a weak DRM that will allow you to view the content on up to 5 different devices, or will have no DRM if that is the desire of the Publisher.

Assuming that, you just have to decide what the value of a particular ebook is to you. If the price doesn't suit you, then wait either until it does, or don't purchase ever. If you are allowed to maintain the copy indefinitely, then it isn't a rental. It's a purchase.

 

[Number 41]

To use your own example: how old are some of those books in your attic? 25-30 years old? Do you _really_ think that a 30 year old eBook will still be readable, if locked down with DRM?

As long as you have the proper device to play it on, I don't see why it would be a problem. It's no different than owning a Betamax tape collection -- only useful if you have a Betamax player.

I've never had a problem with DRM on my music or video. I tend to be skeptical of people who vocally advocate against DRM, because in my experience the only people who dislike it are people who enjoy "sharing" content that should be paid for.

 

[fago]

Not sure what you are asking.

The base argument between Pubisher and distributor is regarding variable pricing. Starts at 14.99 as a new release and over time, is reduced in price. As for DRM, I suspect that Apple will have a weak DRM that will allow you to view the content on up to 5 different devices, or will have no DRM if that is the desire of the Publisher.

Assuming that, you just have to decide what the value of a particular ebook is to you. If the price doesn't suit you, then wait either until it does, or don't purchase ever. If you are allowed to maintain the copy indefinitely, then it isn't a rental. It's a purchase.

5 devices of Apple's choosing. Perhaps.

It is _not_ a purchase. Try reselling it. If you own it you have the legal right to resell it.

You are not allowed to _read_ the eBook indefinitely, but only as long as the DRM server is operational, you own a compatible device, as long as Apple/Microsoft/Amazon says so, etc.

I have books that are over 30 years old. Will my grandchildren be able to read my DRM eBooks? Doubtful. To me, with music and movies this is not so much of an issue, but books are another matter.

"Just don't buy them" sure, just like I can simply go to a local bookstore (thanks, Amazon). Pretty soon everything will be eBooks. I'm fine with that, but don't understand why few seem to care about DRM.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

The issue in my opinion is that you are dealing with two publishers. The Book Publisher and Apple.

 

[neb_greely]

Still, to me the question is not about price, but what exactly we are going to be buying.

Is $14 justified for a RENTAL? If I were a publisher, would you let me come into your bedroom, peruse your book shelves, and remove whatever I like, whenever I want?

I wouldn't consider it a rental - as it's owned, in the same way that an itunes track is owned. I think the 1984 snafu was just that, a snafu. To equate it to a rental is inequitable.

That said, DRM is another big and valid question, but separate from the pricing issues and Amazon monopolistic behavior, in my opinion. Hopefully having multiple ebook retailers in the marketplace can alleviate DRM issues, and the marketplace can help with that too, as it did itunes.

Is $14 justifiable for a brand new release of a book that retails for $25? That depends entirely on the customer and the book, I'd imagine. I personally buy very few hardcovers. When I do, it's because I can't wait to read the book, not for the actual physical product. In which case, yes, that's a $11 discount and I'd bite.

 

[fago]

As long as you have the proper device to play it on, I don't see why it would be a problem. It's no different than owning a Betamax tape collection -- only useful if you have a Betamax player.

I've never had a problem with DRM on my music or video. I tend to be skeptical of people who vocally advocate against DRM, because in my experience the only people who dislike it are people who enjoy "sharing" content that should be paid for.

I do _not_ pirate content.

Your Betamax comparison is very flawed. DRM is like Sony coming into everyones home and taking all of the Betamax players.

 

[fago]

As long as you have the proper device to play it on, I don't see why it would be a problem. It's no different than owning a Betamax tape collection -- only useful if you have a Betamax player.

No. A less dramatic example.

Let's say I have a huge Betamax collection. I can dupe these tapes to DVD and watch them on my new laptop/DVD/BD player. With DRM I would have to buy them again.

Does this make me a pirate to want to use what I've already purchased?

If you say yes, what media company do you work for?

 

[steve-p]

I've never had a problem with DRM on my music or video. I tend to be skeptical of people who vocally advocate against DRM, because in my experience the only people who dislike it are people who enjoy "sharing" content that should be paid for.

That just shows you are wrong to generalise then. My music comes from over 1,000 CDs which I have bought, ripped and stored away. I have never downloaded any music illegally, nor shared it. I still dislike DRM and will not buy anything which is locked down to prevent me doing everything that I am legally entitled to do with physical media, including playing it on whatever device I choose, and selling it if I want to.

 

[gfiz]

No, it's not. The owner of content should be able to set their own price point. If people don't like that price point, the content owner doesn't sell many units.

This is basic economics folks, nothing new.

If you don't like what is being charged, don't buy the product. It's really simple. But don't complain at a companies right to charge what they think their product is worth.

they already were setting their own price point to their customer...the retailer/distributor. Basically what you're agreeing to is that no retailer should be able to set their own prices, have their own sales, everything should be dictated 100% by the supplier? Perhaps the increasingly less instrumental publishers get off their asses and sell their books directly? That's more or less what this is all about, publishing houses which once had a stranglehold on the business don't like that their importance is slowly being diminished, and they found one well known sap in Jobs willing to take it in the a$$ in an effort to try and gain some market share with his anything but magical and revolutionary iPod touch XL.

Thankfully, time will either result in this model breaking and giving the control back to the retailer, or it will completely destroy the e-book market and set it back 10 years. I guess publishers forgot what their bottom line was becoming 10+ years ago when the market for books was at an all time low before a little company called amazon.com entered the business...

off course the iPad offering books is like getting HD programing on a SD television...once the illusion wears off that the device is hardly groundbreaking a subpar alternative for ebooks, I'm anticipating some consumer correction to the fiasco that Jobs and the publishers have caused.

and before anyone links the same blog over again...the blog is written by someone who works in publishing...how do you think it's going to be slanted. Bottom line, this current situation does not help the consumer in the short, or the long run. This is like Healthcare for books...with one ominous party dictating what price the retailers can charge to to consumers.

/rant

 

[TMay]

To me, the worst thing about DRM is that you don't own anything. If the DRM servers get turned off (this has happened!), all your books are toast. If I decide to get a JooJooPad (or whatever) your books are toast unless Apple/Amazon etc decide otherwise. This goes on and on. To use your own example: how old are some of those books in your attic? 25-30 years old? Do you _really_ think that a 30 year old eBook will still be readable, if locked down with DRM?

I get the space saving issue: I currently use Stanza on iPhone, with DRM free classics etc.

As for marginal costs, yes it seems publishing is overwhelmingly fixed costs. However, stating that prices need to be inflated due to piracy is short sighted. To refute this, I note the prices of DRM-free music as well as the recent experiment by O'Reilly publishing: DRM free ebooks increased piracy, but also increased sales by ~100%. Seems to me that DRM is unnecessary...

Time and time again, in industry after industry, it has been shown that DRM hurts paying consumers, but only slightly inconveniences pirates. No matter the DRM, how long would it take it hook up OCR to an iPad?

Ok, $5 for a rental. Movie rentals are more upfront about the whole thing with a definite time period, etc. I could even take a rented DVD/BD to a friends house if I wish. Try that with an iTunes rental.

Seriously, it's not about you. You aren't the publisher. Pricing isn't being inflated due to piracy. New release pricing is being raised, but it is variable over time to maximize profit. That is the market speaking, and you aren't required to buy.

Apple will sell media with and without DRM as per the publisher. It is possible that at some future time, you won't be able to reactivate to a new device. I actually don't see that happening for basic business reasons, but there it is. If you don't trust Apple or some entity that has Apple's assets to be around for the length of time for the copyright to expire, then ebooks probably arent' for you.

You don't like DRM. I get that. Move on.

 

[fago]

I wouldn't consider it a rental - as it's owned, in the same way that an itunes track is owned. I think the 1984 snafu was just that, a snafu. To equate it to a rental is inequitable.

That said, DRM is another big and valid question, but separate from the pricing issues and Amazon monopolistic behavior, in my opinion. Hopefully having multiple ebook retailers in the marketplace can alleviate DRM issues, and the marketplace can help with that too, as it did itunes.

Is $14 justifiable for a brand new release of a book that retails for $25? That depends entirely on the customer and the book, I'd imagine. I personally buy very few hardcovers. When I do, it's because I can't wait to read the book, not for the actual physical product. In which case, yes, that's a $11 discount and I'd bite.

I don't think you own a DRM iTunes track. Hey: I'll buy one of yours for $1M; oh wait, you cannot sell it. Then you don't own it.

DRM is not exactly like a rental, as the terms are mutable and indefinite. But 'rental' is a term that everyone knows.

DRM is tied to the monopolistic and pricing issue as it has to do with who controls pricing, and exactly what will be sold.

The 1984 snafu shows the worst that can happen with DRM. I hope it has sensitized content providers to the issue.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

I only read like 60 posts...

I can say that Amazon's "sell at a loss" ways with the kindle has NEVER sat well with me. Just one of those niggling things that popped to the front of my brain when i pondered buying one.

I knew that it would be hard for them to ever raise prices with the pricing strategy they took. And quite frankly, i'm appalled at some of the ways they do business after reading a variety of things over the last week.

I have sworn to try to NOT buy my books from when possible. I can't control the times i'm flat broke and need a book...

I wish B&N could come close to the online prices in their store - i'd be happy to support them 100% of the time. Even if they'd split the different on some books

Oh well, guess i'll just use the library more when i'm poor.

 

[fago]

Seriously, it's not about you. You aren't the publisher. Pricing isn't being inflated due to piracy. New release pricing is being raised, but it is variable over time to maximize profit. That is the market speaking, and you aren't required to buy.

You don't like DRM. I get that. Move on.

Of course it is not about me, but the market as a whole. If enough people care, then publishers will do what they need to.

BTW, please do not attribute other's comments to me (price inflation).

Yes, time to move on... no one seems to care...

 

[Eric S.]

So much for the idea that the iPad would bring cheaper ebooks.

 

[TMay]

Of course it is not about me, but the market as a whole. If enough people care, then publishers will do what they need to.

BTW, please do not attribute other's comments to me (price inflation).

Yes, time to move on... no one seems to care...

My apologies about the price inflation comment.

I think that ebook buyers understand the limitations of DRM, both in the short term and in the long term, especially with regard to "1984". That hasn't appeared to be a detriment to the market. Evidently, ebook buyers are choosing convenience over DRM, and the market is growing.

 

[lilo777]

Jobs is very good at negotiation.

Why do you think so? Apple seems to be at war with just about every high tech company out there (Kodak, Nokia, Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc.). Is it because of the Jobs' negotiating skills?

 

[cmaier]

So much for the idea that the iPad would bring cheaper ebooks.

Not sure why anyone expected that. music didn't get any cheaper, either.