It depends upon your expectations. I look at iPad one more as a proof of concept more than anything else. The RAM in the device severely limits its usability. I was actually stunned by how more useful my iPAd 3 is and frankly it is a minor upgrade in some ways, but that extra RAM is golden.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPad Lifecycle Mirrors Macs and Maybe Even TVs Rather Than iPhones
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
It depends upon your expectations. I look at iPad one more as a proof of concept more than anything else. The RAM in the device severely limits its usability. I was actually stunned by how more useful my iPAd 3 is and frankly it is a minor upgrade in some ways, but that extra RAM is golden.
I think this has more to do with price than anything. iPad is $500 (for bare bones), while the iPhone is $199 (with contract). I bet if most people had to pay the full, non-subsidized price for their phones (more than the price of the iPad) you'd see the upgrade cycles lengthen.
Being an iPhone 4 user and owner right now, running 7.1, I have to say it is all about expectations. Under 7.1 an iPhone 4 is good enough for my cell phone needs. I would be far less than happy to have my iPad performing in this manner though.
As for updates, I really see many of the complaints in this thread as technical ignorance. The latest versions of iOS are far more demanding than the initial releases as they offer the user many more features and value. The fact that 7.1 runs as well as it does on iPhone 4 is a positive in Apples cap if you ask me. What other combo of operating system and old hardware works as well?
I understand you aren t complaining but some are in this thread and frankly I think they are full of it. The complaints have nothing to base themselves on as Apple has done far more than any manufacture to support old hardware.
As for updates, I really see many of the complaints in this thread as technical ignorance. The latest versions of iOS are far more demanding than the initial releases as they offer the user many more features and value. The fact that 7.1 runs as well as it does on iPhone 4 is a positive in Apples cap if you ask me. What other combo of operating system and old hardware works as well?
I understand you aren t complaining but some are in this thread and frankly I think they are full of it. The complaints have nothing to base themselves on as Apple has done far more than any manufacture to support old hardware.
We don't replace our older iPads, iPhones (actually iPodTouches - same thing almost) and Macs. Rather the older machine gets passed along in the family, or friends, and newer machines get brought into the family. This means that the user base is growing dramatically as opposed to an eco-system where the older machines are thrown away. I know of many who do it like we do. This is a reason Apple should focus on supporting older hardware forward. It builds their user base who can then migrate forward gradually as well as buying content on iTunes and AppStore.
no, it's definitely about price -- were ipads $10, you'd upgrade all the time. but they arent (for good reason). and the other guy's point is valid -- in the US, most customers are on 2-year contracts, so the full price doesnt matter...we get them for $0, $99, $199, or $299. much cheaper, thus much more likely to be upgraded every two years.
----------
completely irrelevant to most US customers, who buy them subsidized at lower out-of-pocket prices. AT&T does not offer a monthly service discount for non-subsidized devices, so i continue to buy them via the subsidy for our household.
To Mr. Potter:
I'm not technically ignorant, I'm not doom-and-gloom, nor am I crying. I spent 5 years designing iPod/iPhone/iPad accessories. I know what it's like to deal with Apple hardware, software, and policies. I think the current obsolescence situation with Apple is "OK," in that I still buy their products from time to time with cautious optimism. What I tried to say is that I will be turned off if they start turning the cranks on users with any more pressure than they currently do.
The (inferred?) message of this news item was that Apple needs to shorten the typical user's iPad upgrade cycle. If Apple in fact wants to do this, would they do it by releasing compelling product updates? Or would they do it by crippling aging products? They've shown themselves to be capable of both.
You think I'm wrong, I think you're naive, but neither of us wrote "Xcode" correctly. Let's both work on that.
I'm not technically ignorant, I'm not doom-and-gloom, nor am I crying. I spent 5 years designing iPod/iPhone/iPad accessories. I know what it's like to deal with Apple hardware, software, and policies. I think the current obsolescence situation with Apple is "OK," in that I still buy their products from time to time with cautious optimism. What I tried to say is that I will be turned off if they start turning the cranks on users with any more pressure than they currently do.
The (inferred?) message of this news item was that Apple needs to shorten the typical user's iPad upgrade cycle. If Apple in fact wants to do this, would they do it by releasing compelling product updates? Or would they do it by crippling aging products? They've shown themselves to be capable of both.
You think I'm wrong, I think you're naive, but neither of us wrote "Xcode" correctly. Let's both work on that.
And the average iPhone user isn't going to know the difference between 1 product lifecycle update either. The iPhone is an expensive smartphone. The difference is that people are fooled into thinking that iPhones cost only $99.
Watch what happens when people have to buy their iPhones upfront without a subsidy. It will have the same lifecycle as iPads and Macs.
My iPad 3 is doing great and I've had it for two years. I'd like an iPad mini for camping as the smaller size is definitely an advantage but I'm not ready to spend $530 just for that. Unless there is some huge and phenomenal change to the iPad, I can see myself using it for another 2 years.
My iPhone 4s will be two years old in July and I lust after the 5s with its touch password and larger screen. I'll buy a new phone when the next version comes out this fall. My phone, although a few months younger, shows way more wear than the iPad. I would think that would be a big reason for more frequent upgrades.
My iPhone 4s will be two years old in July and I lust after the 5s with its touch password and larger screen. I'll buy a new phone when the next version comes out this fall. My phone, although a few months younger, shows way more wear than the iPad. I would think that would be a big reason for more frequent upgrades.
It doesn't matter what the subsidized or perceived cost is. The only thing people care about is how much they are paying out-of-pocket. And most people are going to think it's worth signing a contract in exchange for getting a huge discount on a phone because they need a service anyway.
Many of these have restrictions on the type of phone you can use. For example, none of them, not even the big four (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile) will allow the use of an iPhone 5S as a prepaid at this time. And only one MVNO will allow the use of an iPhone 5. If you're happy with a previous model (which is fine) then you're OK, but for those that like to stay current it wouldn't be an option. You also have to make your selection based off what gives you good signal in the area(s) you are primarily in, so that narrows your selection even further. Either you pay a subsidized price for the phone and be on a contract, or you pay the full price and not be a contract (but you'll still be paying the same amount every month).
Out-of-pocket costs are lower for phones than they are for tablets, and people are more willing to upgrade their phones at shorter intervals since they use them much more heavily. Phones are viewed as more of a necessity, whereas tablets are viewed as more of a luxury. The only way they're going to increase encourage upgrades is by offering better upgrade incentives ("lighter and faster" isn't going to cut it), or by changing the tablets-are-luxury perception.
It's to be expected in the US since typical iPhone upfront cost is so cheap with contract.
Things might get interesting to see if all US carriers stop the subsidized model. People are going to have to buy the iPhone outright and get the carrier service but at much cheaper monthly rate than what it is today.
How do you think it will change the average iPhone upgrade cycle? It'd be a $649 phone instead of $99 now.
Things might get interesting to see if all US carriers stop the subsidized model. People are going to have to buy the iPhone outright and get the carrier service but at much cheaper monthly rate than what it is today.
How do you think it will change the average iPhone upgrade cycle? It'd be a $649 phone instead of $99 now.
Uh, maybe it's changed, but the only one of the major carriers that is actually cheaper if you BYOD is TMobile. It's getting better, but it's still not great. I suppose the pay as you go plans count as major carriers too though, don't they, even if they aren't sold directly by them? They all piggy back on the big 4 networks, don't they? So yeah, I suppose you're right. Of course getting a new iPhone, contract free when it comes out is a challenge, but then early adopters probably aren't as concerned about price.
All that said, many people would rather pay the "monthly payment" of a contract because we have gotten used to "$99" phones.
It's not quite like that. Let's say one of the main reasons I bought a smart phone/or an ipad/ is to use it with an apple app and maybe skype. Just 2 years later for some reason I will restore the iphone/ipad as new - an operation entirely supported by Apple.
After that when I try to install those 2 apps, a message will tell me I can't install them anymore because the apps require a newer hardware/OS.
And so I won't be able to use the phone like I used it when I bought it.
Perhaps I will be given the choice to install the newer ios, in which case the apps will maybe work, but the phone speed will be affected and so again it won't work like it used to when I bought it.
Planned obsolescence
Last edited:
planned obsolescence *does* happen
I've logged into my account for the first time in years, because I have to address your mistaken belief.
I was the owner of an 8-core Xeon, 16GB RAM 2007 Mac Pro. Throughout the beta stages of OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion, this machine worked very well. (In fact, it runs 10.9 perfectly, but no thanks to Apple)
They had written a bootloader for 10.8 that supported the 32-bit EFI on my machine, which is why it worked throughout the beta trials. It was only due to a conscious decision by Apple to disable my machine that this bootloader was removed from the final version of OS X 10.8. They actually went out of their way to disable security updates to my machine. Why? Because it was "too old", despite being more powerful than some of the newest Macs for sale at the time, and despite working flawlessly with the software they had already written! I would have gladly paid for the latest release of OS X for that machine, but Apple wasn't willing to sell it. They'd rather see that perfectly functional (and FAST) machine in a landfill, so they could have a few more dollars in their bank account.
There is no possible way to defend or excuse that behavior, unless you have brainwashed yourself to believe that Apple can do wrong.
Don't try to tell me that I don't need to run the latest version of OS X, and can simply keep using that machine with OS X 10.7 indefinitely. With Apple having (silently) dropped security updates for that OS, it's simply not an option for me.
There is one guy (a hero, to me) who wrote a 32 bit EFI bootloader from scratch, and released it for free, and thanks to him (not Apple), this machine is humming away on 10.9.2 today.
I've logged into my account for the first time in years, because I have to address your mistaken belief.
I was the owner of an 8-core Xeon, 16GB RAM 2007 Mac Pro. Throughout the beta stages of OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion, this machine worked very well. (In fact, it runs 10.9 perfectly, but no thanks to Apple)
They had written a bootloader for 10.8 that supported the 32-bit EFI on my machine, which is why it worked throughout the beta trials. It was only due to a conscious decision by Apple to disable my machine that this bootloader was removed from the final version of OS X 10.8. They actually went out of their way to disable security updates to my machine. Why? Because it was "too old", despite being more powerful than some of the newest Macs for sale at the time, and despite working flawlessly with the software they had already written! I would have gladly paid for the latest release of OS X for that machine, but Apple wasn't willing to sell it. They'd rather see that perfectly functional (and FAST) machine in a landfill, so they could have a few more dollars in their bank account.
There is no possible way to defend or excuse that behavior, unless you have brainwashed yourself to believe that Apple can do wrong.
Don't try to tell me that I don't need to run the latest version of OS X, and can simply keep using that machine with OS X 10.7 indefinitely. With Apple having (silently) dropped security updates for that OS, it's simply not an option for me.
There is one guy (a hero, to me) who wrote a 32 bit EFI bootloader from scratch, and released it for free, and thanks to him (not Apple), this machine is humming away on 10.9.2 today.
In Europe a 16 GB iphone 5S cost $ 960 but you can use it prepay and in many countries it will cost you $ 15 a month almost unlimited voice plan or even cheaper for like 1000 minutes.
And add another $ 15 a month for top speed data and 10 GB traffic. Or cheaper if you need less GB.
Please, get started.
So your sister lost a babysitter in the anti-skeuomorphic war. #victims-of-7 How is your father?
You're not throwing it away obviously. But how do you like it? As adults we don't give in to our emotions, but we get frustrated as well. People are not switching to the Mac, because they don't know how to use Windows, but because they don't want to do all the cognitive work anymore. They prefer one UI (and OS) over another only because it's more intuitive and easier to use.
Oh well. If you can find a little hole in the wall electronic repair place, they might fix both back and battery for you even cheaper than what I quoted. You've got maybe six months before iPhone 6 comes out and that battery is going to get worse and worse. I'd find a way to scrounge up the $50 and make my life better for the next six months with the new battery, plus raise the resale value for the phone a bit, so you will probably get half of the cost of the battery back when you sell your phone.
Of course if the back is really messed up, it might fall apart during the battery swap. Then that would have to be replaced and that would be more money.
Ipad upgrade cycle.
The notion that the iPad upgrade cycle is similar to a TV is plainly ridiculous. I know my particular circumstance isn't representative of everyone, but it is also not unusual.
I bought iPads 1, 2, 3 and iPad Air. I plan to get the next ipad also.
My first smartphone was iphone 4S and am now using a 5S.
My TVs on the other hand, both Samsungs, were thrown out only last year. Those were bought in 2000 and 2004. I won't be upgrading from my LG TV anytime soon.
The notion that the iPad upgrade cycle is similar to a TV is plainly ridiculous. I know my particular circumstance isn't representative of everyone, but it is also not unusual.
I bought iPads 1, 2, 3 and iPad Air. I plan to get the next ipad also.
My first smartphone was iphone 4S and am now using a 5S.
My TVs on the other hand, both Samsungs, were thrown out only last year. Those were bought in 2000 and 2004. I won't be upgrading from my LG TV anytime soon.
Apple is the problem
First off its the os that's the problem with apple products, not the hardware! I had a iPhone 3 and it worked flawlessly until the second update then it was trash, my ipad 1 ran flawlessly until the update to 5.1 or so then trash. I wiped out my iPhone then reinstalled the os back down to 3.somthing then it worked flawlessly again only some apps wouldn't work, look guys it's just apple logging down the hardware with os that isn't compatible, then your forced to buy new hardware. Business 101
First off its the os that's the problem with apple products, not the hardware! I had a iPhone 3 and it worked flawlessly until the second update then it was trash, my ipad 1 ran flawlessly until the update to 5.1 or so then trash. I wiped out my iPhone then reinstalled the os back down to 3.somthing then it worked flawlessly again only some apps wouldn't work, look guys it's just apple logging down the hardware with os that isn't compatible, then your forced to buy new hardware. Business 101
Not sure what I'll do with my iPad Air. It's works so badly, first frequent restarts, which many many people complained about and this took Apple months and months to fix with it's previous update and now with the update streaming airplay doesn't work good any longer where many many people complain about this as well...
Apple becomes more and more sloppy and unprofessional when it comes to makes devices 'bug-friendly' and this all for such an expensive device. Very unprofessional, I hope Apple will come up with a bug fix soon and doesn't let customers down with again a lot of months waiting.
I also think the lifespan of a device worth hundreds of euro's should be way longer then two years, our Ipad 2 started to become very slow and I heard the same stories about the 3 version. It's kinda ridiculous.
Apple becomes more and more sloppy and unprofessional when it comes to makes devices 'bug-friendly' and this all for such an expensive device. Very unprofessional, I hope Apple will come up with a bug fix soon and doesn't let customers down with again a lot of months waiting.
I also think the lifespan of a device worth hundreds of euro's should be way longer then two years, our Ipad 2 started to become very slow and I heard the same stories about the 3 version. It's kinda ridiculous.
I hold onto my old iOS devices so that I have an array of test devices for my apps. The 4S is still being sold so I figure I need to still support it for a few more years.
I think the longer cycle has to do with that you don't get iPads usually on a contract. If I don't get to the end of a contract - I don't think about upgrading. We have an iPad 2 which is still used and I might get an iPad mini, but that is because I want something smaller not because I am going to then dich the iPad 2. Perhaps Apple should start encouraging vendors to do a iPad+iPhone combo contract, that would increase sales but probably at the expene of a bit of margin.
