iPad mini to sport e-ink hybrid. Amazon is doomed!

Discussion in 'iPad' started by Masterkona, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. Masterkona, Oct 13, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012

    Masterkona macrumors member

    Oct 13, 2012


    Any thoughts? It is also rumored to have a better feeling grip. Smaller iPad for portability and reading. Check. 15-20 hours of reading time with special power option. Check. Starting at $349. Check. What isn't to like? They'll reduce the screen quality to save battery and optimize for reading and web browsing.

    If this is priced accordingly, Kindle sales will suffer, a lot. Not that they ever made money on them any way. Why buy a kindle fire or a nexus 7 when the iPad costs only $100-$150 more, has better and more stuff, and is an overall better product. Not to mention it'd be made by apple. Once the second gen comes out, expect the first gen to be $180-240 on eBay. Expect at least 50-75million to be sold net year. if 10million is the estimate from November- January, 75-100million is possible. I know I'm buying one, possibly 2. My cousins birthday is coming up :)

    Apple is so doomed ;)
  2. CapnJackGig macrumors 6502a

    Jul 17, 2011
    Apple will never doom Amazon when it comes to e-books. They tried with the awful iBooks store. Can't compete.
  3. Masterkona, Oct 13, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012

    Masterkona thread starter macrumors member

    Oct 13, 2012
    Considering apples main source of revenue will never be ebooks or iTunes purchases, I see it as possible. I just got an email from amazon notifying me of the recent 69million dollar settlement. Amazon will be bleeding cash within 2-3 years.

    Amazon pricing below cost is going to kill them. Pricing their ebook readers at cost will cause them big problems once people stop buying them. They are trying to lock people into their ecosystem with subscription packages. I don't see that working for more then 30-40% of customers that go for the subscription data pricing, If even that many. Also, people that buy kindle fire do so primarily for price, meaning the vast majority ( greater then 50%) won't buy a new one every other year since they are price conscious, and budget constrained.


    There is nothing special about amazons product, besides e-ink and the feel, asside from free 3g browsing on the kindle, which sucks, but works as a way of reading the new York times from a boat in he middle of the ocean.

    Only strong positive I've heard about kindle fire is the price, the grip, and the size. Only reason to buy a kindle is the battery or the e-ink. Schools are making deals with apple to get iPads in schools, not kindles. This is he way to get an iPad into the hands of every student, and any person that reads books, and prefers to not carry around tons of physical ones. Also, iOS safari works better then silk can ever hope to. Even one analyst who purports to have handled the device states "This 7.85-inch iPad Mini fit our hands like a glove and we were easily able to tuck the device in our sport coat, offering consumers a more mobile iPad experience for certain use cases.”


    Amazon will remain the number one source to buy physical books, but they don't make real money doing that. They have margins of about 1%. Kindle sales won't collapse but they will slow dramatically, except in low end markets. However, those in low end groups wont spend enough for Amazon to make enough money to justify the valuation it has. JMHO. Amazon is popular in the USA and UK and has a great website. However, they make only 1-2% on purchases and short of crazy penetration into world wide low end markets I don't see it happening. Apple is desired across the world, Amazon kindle not so much.
  4. AlphaDogg macrumors 68040


    May 20, 2010
    Boulder, CO
    Why? They have a "Jesus-tablet" coming out soon. Amazon is who should be worried.
  5. guineapig macrumors regular

    Oct 5, 2011
    Have you read his whole post?
  6. inselstudent macrumors 6502a

    Jul 27, 2012
    Don't think that'll be a feature of the iPad mini. Apple files a lot of patents and, if they were to use this one, they'd have filed it a long time ago. Just because they have a patent for a fuel cell in a mobile device doesn't mean they're gonna use it anytime soon...
  7. Masterkona thread starter macrumors member

    Oct 13, 2012
    This article from the chinapost seems to make a good case for saying the iPad mini will have what they are calling " fringe field switching" (FFS) technology.
  8. irDigital0l Guest

    Dec 7, 2010
    Kindle is still superior compared to iPad or any other tablet in book reading. Thats what the Kindle was build for and sole purpose.

    Now if your talking about the Kindle Fire...yea its gonna die in a fire.
  9. AlphaDogg macrumors 68040


    May 20, 2010
    Boulder, CO
    Have you?
  10. irDigital0l Guest

    Dec 7, 2010
    stop taking things too seriously
  11. Masterkona, Oct 13, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012

    Masterkona thread starter macrumors member

    Oct 13, 2012
    One can argue that the iPad was primarily built for the same thing. Only problem with using an ipad as a book is the difficulty in reading outside or in high light areas. Also, the size. An e-ink hybrid tech coupled with a smaller iPad would change this. The lower resolution screen would also save your eyes. Be kind to your eyes, turn down the backlight :)

    What tech in the kindle doesn't exist in the so called "iPad mini"? Watch them call it the "iBook" or the "ireader". Even steve jobs in the 1983 interview stated the iPads primary purpose when he conceived it was reading books.

    Only difference between the iPad mini and the kindle is that the kindle is black and white, smaller, and has a poor quality web browser that crashes 8/10 times if you actually use it for facebook or reading the new York times. The iPad mini will sport the same browser as the iPad, have a color browser that works for 15-20 hours in a special mode, and will have access to apps from the app store. Did I mention a browser that works?

    I used to own a normal kindle for the simple reason that I don't use 3G on my iPad and am abroad or in remote areas often, not to mention the reality that the active battery life on the kindle is a bit ridiculous. It can stay on for days at a time without needing to plug it in. Any type of world wide 3G offering is crazy expensive.

    Random internet in remote areas is very useful, even of it only works 20% of the time. Amazon has random deals with lots of cell providers to offer this globally.

    Only problem with kindle free 3g is it a) doesn't usually work b) makes a record of what you do on it (is not the least bit secure) and c) isn't really intended to be used as a browser and is still in beta. It's purpose is to buy books and not much else.
  12. Abazigal macrumors G3


    Jul 18, 2011
    Yes, what's your point?
  13. Che Castro macrumors 603

    May 21, 2009
    so how will the regular non e-ink screen be with this hybrid?

    i care more about how videos & pictures look
  14. APlotdevice macrumors 68040


    Sep 3, 2011
    Okay, cause I'm tired of seeing this constantly confused... even by tech bloggers... let me just point out that an eInk/LCD hybrid is physically impossible. They are radically different technologies. However the patent Apple submitted doesn't even say eInk, it says "electronic paper". HUGE difference. Electronic paper is a general term for any type of display with the properties of high reflective contrast and little to no power needed to maintain the image. EInk is one type of electronic paper, but it's not the only one.

    A hybrid LCD would most likely be based on high contrast reflective LCD technology. This technology, from what I have seen, is pretty good in terms of contrast, though not quite at the same level as eInk.
  15. TheWheelMan macrumors 6502a


    Mar 15, 2011
    People are extremely insecure to need to pit one against the other or declare one or the other "doomed". The Kindle and the iPad aren't really in the same category, although the Kindle does try to be iPad like. For those who want real ereaders the Kindle will remain king. How the Fire fares, who knows, but if one only wants an ereader with some tablet capabilities, it might do fine. The iPad will always be the epitome of the tablet, and it's foolish to think Amazon doesn't know that by now. There's plenty of room for iPads and Kindles because they have different target audiences. The crossover element isn't enough to kill either one.

    Y'all need to step away from the PC and go drive your midlife crisis sports cars and stop worrying about the size of your tablet. :rolleyes:
  16. KieranDotW macrumors 6502a


    Apr 12, 2012
    Assuming there will be a kindle app for iPad mini, then bam. Problem solved.

    That is, unless Amazon chooses not to support the iPad mini with their app, seeing as it might be the only way to save themselves.
  17. APlotdevice macrumors 68040


    Sep 3, 2011
    In all likelihood the Mini will run existing iPad apps. So Amazon would have no choice.
  18. Geekbabe macrumors 6502a


    Nov 20, 2011
    The 7 inch Kindle Fire HD sports a beautiful screen, comes with 16GB of storage & costs $199. Amazon offers tons of great content for the device, if you are an Amazon Prime member you get to watch a slew of free movies & tv shows & you can borrow one book a month for free.

    I love my iPad but the Fire HD, even running in stock configuration is a pretty sweet device. Somehow I doubt that Amazon will be crying in their beer over their holiday sales numbers.
  19. Masterkona, Oct 15, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012

    Masterkona thread starter macrumors member

    Oct 13, 2012
    Yes, however, Amazon prime costs $79 a year. Also, Amazons interface is a bit annoying.

    Apple has more content, and a better interface. Perhaps most important is the reality that making annotations on an Ipad is better and more convenient then on a kindle. IPads are better for text books or long books/magazines that encourage note taking. You can do this on a kindle, but it's a bit arduous.

    I for one would gladly pay $100-150 more for an IPad that can achieve double battery life using a special reading mode, which only a bit bigger and is more useful as far as being able to do things on it.

    The problem as I see it is Amazon is betting the farm on large scale "continued" adoption of Amazon prime, a service that costs $79 per year. They are assuming that enough people will buy books and media from the kindle fire to more then make up for giving away the devices for free. If for any reason Amazon increases the cost of Prime, or if for any reason Apple or any other company begins offering similar services, (Google?) customers will run away faster then you can say stampede.

    Google is on thin Ice as far as being considered a monopoly. I don't think they are going to declare war on content distribution. Let's think. Google controls the dominant form of search worldwide, constituting a technical monopoly. Alternatives such as Bing, Yandex, and Baidu do not constitute competition. Baidu is a special case since Google is banned in China. Google is pushing their android OS and is trying to direct IOS users to Android, particularly with the Samsung Galaxy S.

    Do a search on Google or Youtube for IPhone 5. The first 5-10 things will be ads for the Samsung Galaxy S. Google is conspiring with all cell phone producers to try and break Apple from being popular through shear marketing .

    In contrast, Apple just happens to be very popular, and produces products that people buy of their own accord. Apple advertises by itself, and has deals with mobile providers to promote their product at their stores. As best as I can tell, there doesn't exist a single company that has control over information that is pushing the IPhone 5. The phone just happens to get a lot of Media attention, and in many cases negative attention over nonsensical things.

    Furthermore, there is no such thing as bad advertising, and with the exception of Samsung advertising campaign insulting Apple users, there should is no such thing as advertising that wins the opinion of customers by insulting potential buyers. Such mean spirited, and silly tactics probably helps Apple win customers. I have doubts that Samsung wins over more then a small fraction of IOS users with these tactics. They may win over a percent of the undecided buyers, but in the end, my assumption is that it actually hurts their brand.

    New laws that will limit what companies can do with information obtained through "smart" devices will hurt Google's profitability. Ad revenue, which constitutes close to 70% of their earnings will suffer in the coming years as government agencies working to protect consumers prohibit certain forms of data collecting that will ultimately mean less money for Google. I guarantee it.

    Furthermore, Amazon will suffer as states begin imposing sales tax on internet sales. Amazon is only able to make money in its current form because of these exemptions. I have a hard time believing this will be sustainable going forward. With Margins of 1-2%, Amazon can't afford to lower prices, and will in fact be forced to raise them. This will scare away customers, and will destroy their margins. I only buy from Amazon because they are cheaper then in stores. When this is no longer true, I will have no reason to do so.

    I have no problem with Amazon, I merely think their business plan has a ton of holes. Of course, I don't know much about what new things they have on the horizon, so I could very well be wrong. However,I do have a problem with Google, since I object to the existence of a Monopoly that thrives due to consumer ignorance. Not only is Android an inferior OS, it fails to maintain a high level of security, something that is very necessary for a device that stores the type of information people keep on their smart phones. Even the FBI recently revealed that Android is very susceptible to dangerous Malware.

    Apples closed ecosystem provides
    1) Security (No Viruses or Malware)
    2) Reliability (You can rely on your phone or Tablet doing what it is intended to be used for)
    3) Functionality (The device doesn't break and works as advertised (Apple maps doesn't count since it is a work in progress, and is not a primary function of the phone. Common sense says it will be fixed within 6months-1year) Also, they use significantly less battery and data then Google maps. This part is something that is being shockingly under-reported.
    4) Ease of Use (It's so easy a 5 year old can use it)

    In the end, you get what you pay for, and I will gladly venture to say that while many will continue to buy the kindle, the Nexus 7, or whatever, they will do so for reasons that have nothing to do with functionality. They will do so either because they
    a) Don't like IOS
    b) Can't afford the difference
    c) Prefer the minimalist design of the Kindle or feel a sense of loyalty to Amazon.
    d) Prefer to openness of the Android App store, and don't care about security.
    e) Are uneducated on the functionality of Apple products,
    f) Already use prime and consider the Kindle Fire to be a bargain,
    g) Prefer an OS that has direct compatibility to a windows OS.
  20. ixodes macrumors 601


    Jan 11, 2012
    Pacific Coast, USA
    I don't care what Apple does, Amazon will be just fine.

    They have a proven track record, their own customer base, and lots of fresh ideas.
  21. CapnJackGig macrumors 6502a

    Jul 17, 2011
    Amazon isn't sweating Apple when it comes to books.They're millions of miles ahead of Apple in this regard, and Apple hasn't released anything to show they can make any device viewable in bright light. iPads, iPhones, Touch etc all useless outside.
  22. token787 macrumors regular


    Jun 30, 2012
    No matter what, Amazon is doing their thing. They are holding their own and doing successful at it. Amazon is ruling in the ereader world.
  23. iEvolution macrumors 65816

    Jul 11, 2008
    Amazon offers way more eBooks and nearly the same in music..in fact thus far I haven't found anything in iTunes that I couldn't find on Amazon. Apple is way ahead for videos though that is for sure and I do agree the iTunes interface is cleaner however Amazon offers so many products that making it simple to use for everyone is going to be pretty hard.

    As said, they don't have everything riding on the Kindle.. they were a successful company before the Kindle and they would still be successful even if the particular business model failed. They aren't betting "the farm" on eBooks and the Kindle that is for sure.

    Absolutely ridiculous Bing, Yahoo, Altavista etc. are all direct competitors as search providers no matter how much they're getting their @sses kicked or how much market share Google has over the competition.

    Really? I just did this, all I got was iPhone results and places where I can buy it. Now you're just making up a bunch of BS.

    You think Apple has nothing to do with the publicity they receive? REALLY!? Apple is known to silence critics of their products. For example when iLounge put out a "limited recommendation" on the 3rd generation shuffle, Apple decided to punish them and not allow them to attend one of their events.
    The passive side of “punishment” is denial of access: during a period of punishment, Apple mightn’t allow “punished” journalists to come to its events, or respond to their e-mails. The active side of punishment is similarly charming: Apple gives sunnier competitors advantages by supplying them with new hardware before it arrives in stores, and offers them exclusive or semi-exclusive interviews with Apple executives.

    Believe it or not, at some point late last year, we were told specifically that the company was going to be pursuing a “fanboys only” approach—buttering up publications that basically accepted and reprinted the company’s statements with little to no challenge. You can probably guess which ones we’re talking about: they’re the ones that have become the company’s unofficial mouthpieces in recent years, either glossing over or praising its least praiseworthy actions, as well as showering all sorts of attention on expensive new Apple products that they would never have purchased on their own for testing. We’ve made clear to Apple that we’re not willing to compromise the integrity of our editorial for preferential treatment, or even plain access. Silly us.

    Despite what you think, Apple has a very large influence of reviews and attention.

    People don't stop buying things at stores because of taxes what makes you think taxing is going to suddenly cause a meltdown in sales at Amazon?

    Is that why the company is a 48 billion dollar company because their business model sucks?

    The sell hardware at a loss and hope customers will buy content hasn't really had a long time to work yet, especially with the Kindle Fire. Time will tell if this particular business model works or not, they seem to not have much of a problem in the first year considering they're still running on that model.

    Sorry still fail to see in what market google holds a monopoly in.

    Ease of use has nothing to do with benefits of a closed system. It can be difficult to use and still be a closed system.

    Functionality again, has nothing to do with a closed off system..in fact one could argue by being so tightly controlled that certain functions cannot be achieved because the manufacturer (Apple) would not allow it. A great example is when an iPhone/iPT becomes jailbroken, it opens the doors to many functions that Apple would have never allowed in their app store.

    This is a publisher problem, its not Amazon that is losing the money.

    ...and exclusive content from amazon, especially in the eBook section.

    Interesting for one I haven't even heard of schools looking into deals with iPads for schools kindly provide a link? Further I'm pretty sure the iPad is out of reach for a school's budget to provide for every student an iPad.

    Where are you getting your ridiculous stats? The company was a successful one long before they started offering digital content so I really doubt the company is going to sink unless they pick up a HP CEO that decides to drop everything but eBooks.
  24. Geekbabe macrumors 6502a


    Nov 20, 2011

    Like I said, I love my iPad 3, they'll have to pry it from my fingers to get it away from me, I also love my MBA. Kindle Fire HD is still a pretty sweet device, I won a new Fire, the screen & sound quality are jaw droppingly good when you consider that it costs $199. I'll be playing around with it, getting google play store & such but even in it's stock configuration this device offers just about everything that normal people want to do with a tablet.

    Amazon Prime costs money but if you shop at Amazon regularly it is a great value. You can make it even more of a a bargain by sharing your prine account with other family members, getting a library of free videos to enjoy is just icing on the cake.

    Yes, Apple does police it's App Store vigorously but Amazon, while not anywhere near as stringent does monitor it's store, they are also offering a nice, easy to use set of parental controls on the Fire, all that coupled with the price & this thing is going to fly off the shelves this holiday season.
  25. Masterkona thread starter macrumors member

    Oct 13, 2012

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