iPad Pro iPad Pro 10.5 slow pixel response/motion blur?

Discussion in 'iPad' started by mactr0n, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. mactr0n, Jun 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017

    mactr0n macrumors newbie

    mactr0n

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2017
    #1
    I got my new iPad Pro 10.5 today and noticed that the pixel response is slow and there is some kind of motion blur (see pictures and slow motion video). Had an iPad 4 mini before and can't remember it was that bad.

    Is it just me or does anybody else got a problem with it? Could somebody please make a slow motion video of an iPad Pro 10.5 similar to the one below and post it here?

    Pictures:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Video (slow motion):
     
  2. AndyGarton macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    #3
    I think yours might be faulty. The point of ProMotion (the 120fps part at least) is that it removes motion blur. Text stays near perfectly sharp when scrolling, it’s pretty awesome.
     
  3. epca12 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    That looks like it could be faulty, it'd probably be best to return it or try out others in store to make sure it is just yours
     
  4. Sanlitun, Jun 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  5. texasstar1981 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    #6
    check out the audio of the youtube video... audible at beginning and the end. dead silent in between... it's a slow motion video... nice trick and "funny"

    p.s. the ipad also moves slightly at beginning and end - but ZERO movement in between. another indicator for slow-mo
     
  6. mactr0n thread starter macrumors newbie

    mactr0n

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    Jun 13, 2017
    #7
    Sry! I thought this was obvious. In slow motion you can see it much better.
     
  7. AndyGarton macrumors member

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    Sep 15, 2007
    #8
    It’s deliberately slow motion to show the problem.
     
  8. mariotr87 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    #9
    I'm not sure this video is actually exposing an issue. Icons are moving, and you're capturing that movement at a rate higher than the display's refresh rate itself. Surely this is what you would expect?

    If you do the same with any of the previous displays you should see that icons travel more distance from frame to frame, but that's just because of the lower refresh rate.

    The question is whether the movement seems natural to the eye? If in doubt you can always check another unit at an Apple Store.
     
  9. mw78 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    #10
    I'm not seeing any motion blur on my 10.5. If in doubt, send it back.
     
  10. mactr0n thread starter macrumors newbie

    mactr0n

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    Jun 13, 2017
    #11
    I will try to finde one at a local store tomorrow and see if it shows the same behaviour.
     
  11. Krevnik macrumors 68040

    Krevnik

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    Sep 8, 2003
    #12
    LCD's response time is meh, and has been for a long time. Motion at 120Hz will (and does) show marked improvement over 60Hz, but will still show the motion blur coming from the LCD panel itself.

    To give an example, one of the best LCD response times for TVs is around 13ms. 60Hz has a period of 16ms. 120Hz has a period of 8ms. So even if Apple is using one of the best LCD displays on the planet, the response time won't quite be up to the task of showing 120Hz cleanly. But the motion will still appear smoother, with less latency, and more clarity, than at 60Hz.

    As long as the response time is roughly 13ms, the blur is roughly the same. The problem is that our eyes and brain also play a part and can affect the perception of how much blur there is. Especially with sample-and-hold displays like LCD and OLED.

    But it is possible there's other factors like overshoot in play between the two models.
     
  12. AndyGarton macrumors member

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    Sep 15, 2007
  13. mactr0n thread starter macrumors newbie

    mactr0n

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    Jun 13, 2017
    #14
    Great explanation! I think I'm just too sensitive and have to get used to it.

    Already saw that video. It show exactly the same behaviour.
     
  14. Krevnik macrumors 68040

    Krevnik

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2003
    #15
    Yeah, I'm pretty sensitive to flicker and blur myself, so I can sympathize.

    Yup. That video looks exactly like normal behavior for an LCD.
     
  15. captain_ben, Jun 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017

    captain_ben macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    #16
    Same here: I upgraded from a 2011 iPad 2 and made the same observation on my iPad Pro 10.5 almost immediately after turning it on.

    If the actual LCD pixel response time is longer than the 120 Hz refresh rate (so greater than 8.3 ms), than this is surely a plausible explanation for motion blur. I'd even argue that at 120 Hz it's even more visible than on older screens since the pixels have double the time to get to their final color state at 60 Hz (albeit the animation itself being not as smooth as at 120 Hz). This might also explain why mactr0n didn't notice motion blur on his/her iPad mini 4.

    You can limit the refresh rate on the new iPad Pros to 60 Hz by the way in Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Display Adaptations -> Limit Screen to 60 Hz (translated from German option labels).

    I was able to try out another iPad Pro 10.5 at a local store which showed exactly the same motion blur. mactr0n, have you been able to compare your iPad Pro to new ones on display at an Apple Store?

    Anyways, I believe this is normal behavior and that 120 Hz, while motion blur is visible, is still a step forward - and that the iPad Pro 10.5 is a great machine overall, of course. Maybe Apple will further improve ProMotion next year with faster LCDs and promote them as "even sharper". ;)
     
  16. Newtons Apple Suspended

    Newtons Apple

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida
    #17
    Show us without slow motion. Mine does not blur like that and I am thinking yours does due to the slo-motion you are using. Could just be the LCD as they do have their limits.
     
  17. Atomic Walrus macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    #18
    It is definitely the pixel response time. With current IPS tech you just can’t get the kind of color accuracy Apple wants on the iPad with a sufficiently low response time to avoid visible ghosting at 120hz. At least not at a price that isn’t as high as the iPP itself. 2560x1440 IPS displays with response times in the sub-8ms range go for 700+ currently, and don’t have great accuracy.

    OLED may or may not be able to resolve this – theoretical response times are much lower – but real world panels display severe response time lag at near-black shades, so significant that Occulus and Vive had to increase the black levels to a dark grey on their headsets.

    And with OLED you’re also dealing with burn-in, which might not be an issue on phones but would be a disaster on productivity devices. And PWM flicker, depending on the implementation.

    Response times should continue to improve, especially with the PC gaming market pushing so hard for 144hz IPS panels, and we may also see major developments in micro-LED tech in the next few years.
     
  18. enigma2k macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    #19
    I'm geting motion blur as well on my iPad which is really obvious. So I can't really understand all the hype about this new 120HZ screen. Everything is definitely much more fluid but it still comes with a lot of motion blur which makes it difficult to read the text while scrolling. I wonder if there are different manufacturers for the LCD screen so maybe there are some with and some without or less motion blur.
     
  19. Simacca macrumors 6502a

    Simacca

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    Jul 31, 2008
    Location:
    UK, South East.
    #20
    I hardly get any motion blur on my 10.5. On my 9.7 it was terrible.
     
  20. Krevnik macrumors 68040

    Krevnik

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    Sep 8, 2003
    #21
    Yes, it does vary, but LCD in general has a long response time. The "GTG" values you see can be much bigger in black/white situations, and tend to be longer than a single frame.

    The higher refresh helps cut down on touch/pencil input lag, improve smoothness, and reduce blur. It doesn't eliminate it. It does increase the motion resolution though, which means you can scroll a bit faster on the 120Hz display and still make out the text, compared to the 60Hz display. But they both start to blur at some amount of motion happening per second.

    Certain OLED panels can do much better (LG's WOLED panels for example), but still aren't perfect.
     
  21. retrouk macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2017
    #22
    Hi everyone, new member here. Nice to meet you all. I just received a brand new iPad Pro 10.5 here in the UK and I'm sending it back because of the motion blur that I can see, especially with regards to YouTube videos. If you are sensitive to it, then it can become quite annoying. Let's see if Apple address this issue at some point with this new model.
     
  22. ventmore macrumors 6502a

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    Jul 13, 2008
    #23
  23. Krevnik macrumors 68040

    Krevnik

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    Sep 8, 2003
    #24
    The problem is that you can’t really fix it with software alone. And to improve on the current pro, you need to start looking at some form of BFI, strobing backlight or rolling backlight like LCD TVs use to reduce the effect of motion blur, as well as potentially switching to a faster tech. TN LCD which would sacrifice color accuracy or OLED which makes BFI harder to do.
     

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