iPad Pro iPad Pro M4 vs. Microsoft's New Surface Pro 11: Sound Off!

[Kahnforever]

Microsoft just launched a new line of Surface, with the new Surface Pro 11 with a 13" screen, OLED option with HDR, up to 32 GB RAM and the new Flex keyboard with 14% larger trackpad and more carbon fibre for stiffness, and a slim pen. How do you think it compares to the new iPad Pro M4s?

Some specs:

• Snapdragon X Plus or X Elite
• Up to 32GB LPDDR5x RAM
• Up to 1 TB SSD
• 13-inch PixelSense Flow Display - upgradeable to OLED with 900 nits peak brightness
• Qualcomm's NPU inside these devices (capable of up to 45 trillion operations per second)
• QHD Surface Studio camera with Windows Hello, 10MP rear-facing camera
• 1.97 lbs.

Here's a video:

Here's a reference article:

The new, faster Surface Pro is Microsoft’s all-purpose AI PC

Microsoft’s AI PCs are here in a big way.

www.theverge.com

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Depends. Do you like any sort of semblance of privacy?

 

[ManuCH]

It's for sure a nice device! But I just have a dislike for the Surface Pro design. I personally find them very ugly. Well, it's not an argument, I know, but that's how I feel.

Also, and most importantly: I wouldn't want Windows (or macOS) on a tablet. I want either a tablet or a laptop. Not a hybrid.

 

[KPOM]

The Surface is better as a notebook replacement, but I notice that it’s still quite a bit heavier as a tablet. Microsoft’s new keyboard looks nice, though it is pricey.

I note the NPU is about 18% faster than what Apple claims for the M4. I wonder how the CPU will compare.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

This would be a great machine for the folks wanting a more "Pro" iPad!

 

[Kahnforever]

The Surface is better as a notebook replacement, but I notice that it’s still quite a bit heavier as a tablet. Microsoft’s new keyboard looks nice, though it is pricey.

I note the NPU is about 18% faster than what Apple claims for the M4. I wonder how the CPU will compare.

Heavier as it has fans I believe. Better thermals than an iPad so can handle more sustained power output.

 

[KPOM]

Heavier as it has fans I believe. Better thermals than an iPad so can handle more sustained power output.

Meaning it’s still notebook first and tablet second.

 

[klasma]

While I’m a Windows user, Windows is not a suitable OS for touch use, so for me this doesn’t compete with an iPad. And even as a laptop, Intel is still preferable for Windows, generally speaking.

 

[Kahnforever]

Meaning it’s still notebook first and tablet second.

It isn’t a good a tablet as an iPad but the Surface is very versatile, especially with the Flex Keyboard.

 

[KPOM]

While I’m a Windows user, Windows is not a suitable OS for touch use, so for me this doesn’t compete with an iPad. And even as a laptop, Intel is still preferable for Windows, generally speaking.

Microsoft claims to have written a new translation layer as efficient as Rosetta 2. It looks like they are doubling down on ARM.

 

[klasma]

Microsoft claims to have written a new translation layer as efficient as Rosetta 2. It looks like they are doubling down on ARM.

It remains to be seen. They’ve been trying going ARM for many years now. As a desktop user, it doesn’t really concern me so far, but I also don’t know anybody who owns an ARM Windows laptop.

 

[KPOM]

It remains to be seen. They’ve been trying going ARM for many years now. As a desktop user, it doesn’t really concern me so far, but I also don’t know anybody who owns an ARM Windows laptop.

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft makes the ”CoPilot” version of Windows ARM generally available or if these features will be limited to CoPilot-branded PCs. Perhaps it depends on how many of these features rely specifically on Qualcomm’s NPU. I’m guessing they will limit access, but it would be nice to get the Prism translation layer in Parallels Desktop.

 

[EyeOS]

If you are ok with the Microsoft Service Contract, which allows the company, to read all your documents, pictures, videos and any other files (MS cloud and local hard drives), scan them for any dubious content and take away your account if MS is not ok with your content, even deny any further access to your files and start legal consequences, if all that is fine for you, you can consider buying a device like that.

if you don ˋt believe, that MS has these options, just read their Service Contract.
And if you are using the new Outlook, be sure, that all your mail passwords from any mail account are stored on MS servers.
Currently there are different investigations running to get a clear picture of the consequences of the MS masterkey hack. Maybe you want to wait for the results.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft makes the ”CoPilot” version of Windows ARM generally available or if these features will be limited to CoPilot-branded PCs. Perhaps it depends on how many of these features rely specifically on Qualcomm’s NPU. I’m guessing they will limit access, but it would be nice to get the Prism translation layer in Parallels Desktop.

You bring an interesting possibility to mind - will we see Neural Cards hit the market for consumer desktops like we have graphics cards?

I know that you can use a GPU for AI tasks, But that consumes resources that would be better used for graphics rendering in games for example.

 

[MayaUser]

It isn’t a good a tablet as an iPad but the Surface is very versatile, especially with the Flex Keyboard.

if this is like surface pro x 2 just under different name...sorry its garbage
hope the emulation is far better than it was 3 years ago

 

[gpat]

I had some Surfaces in my household.... I can only say that ditching Intel so suddenly really feels like a careless move from Microsoft's part.

 

[KPOM]

I had some Surfaces in my household.... I can only say that ditching Intel so suddenly really feels like a careless move from Microsoft's part.

Either that, or they are confident enough in the chips. Given Apple's success, they have a reason to be confident. It looks like they worked closely with Qualcomm to deliver the features they wanted in the chips, and also put in the effort to build a Rosetta-style translation layer.

 

[fw85]

Either that, or they are confident enough in the chips. Given Apple's success, they have a reason to be confident. It looks like they worked closely with Qualcomm to deliver the features they wanted in the chips, and also put in the effort to build a Rosetta-style translation layer.

Or they're just continuing their journey of delivering tasteless, half baked and unpolished products, which are about a decade behind in quality standards.

Yeah, them having no clue and just copying Apple and jumping on the AI bandwagon seems a solid bet as well.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Either that, or they are confident enough in the chips. Given Apple's success, they have a reason to be confident. It looks like they worked closely with Qualcomm to deliver the features they wanted in the chips, and also put in the effort to build a Rosetta-style translation layer.

I would argue Windows users don’t want ARM. They usually fall under two camps:

1. Pro/Enterprise users that rely on lifetime compatibility between x86/64.
2. Gamers

ARM meets none of these and MS implementation will likely be abysmal. Maybe they are trying to gain some Apple users, which I could see, but Qualcomm chips have been trash for years.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I would argue Windows users don’t want ARM. They usually fall under two camps:

1. Pro/Enterprise users that rely on lifetime compatibility between x86/64.
2. Gamers

ARM meets none of these and MS implementation will likely be abysmal. Maybe they are trying to gain some Apple users, which I could see, but Qualcomm chips have been trash for years.

This kind of ignores the regular people. Students, teachers, office drones, writers, developers, I could go on and on. You know, the kind of people that would otherwise buy a MacBook Air. These laptops are for those people.

 

[TheRealAlex]

Microsoft just launched a new line of Surface, with the new Surface Pro 11 with a 13" screen, OLED option with HDR, up to 32 GB RAM and the new Flex keyboard with 14% larger trackpad and more carbon fibre for stiffness, and a slim pen. How do you think it compares to the new iPad Pro M4s?

Some specs:

• Snapdragon X Plus or X Elite
• Up to 32GB LPDDR5x RAM
• Up to 1 TB SSD
• 13-inch PixelSense Flow Display - upgradeable to OLED with 900 nits peak brightness
• Qualcomm's NPU inside these devices (capable of up to 45 trillion operations per second)
• QHD Surface Studio camera with Windows Hello, 10MP rear-facing camera
• 1.97 lbs.

Here's a video:

Here's a reference article:

The new, faster Surface Pro is Microsoft’s all-purpose AI PC

Microsoft’s AI PCs are here in a big way.

www.theverge.com

#1. No Tandem OLED = dealbreaker
#2. No VRR or 120hz Promotion
#3. No Apple Pencil ✏️

it’s shocking how bad that device is.

 

[Digitalguy]

I would argue Windows users don’t want ARM. They usually fall under two camps:

1. Pro/Enterprise users that rely on lifetime compatibility between x86/64.
2. Gamers

ARM meets none of these and MS implementation will likely be abysmal. Maybe they are trying to gain some Apple users, which I could see, but Qualcomm chips have been trash for years.

These PCs do offers that compatibility for 95% of software. If the new emulation is as good as they claim, it's going to be pretty seamless.
And these are not chips made by Qualcomm, these were made by the same people who made Apple Silicon, who created a separate company and were bought by Qualcomm.
But are we surprised that Apple sheeps are skeptical and trash these devices without knowing much about them? We are not.

 

[chrism_scotland]

You bring an interesting possibility to mind - will we see Neural Cards hit the market for consumer desktops like we have graphics cards?

I know that you can use a GPU for AI tasks, But that consumes resources that would be better used for graphics rendering in games for example.

Intel and AMD are expected to launch their own CPU's with NPU's later this year so I'd expect to see them start to filter into desktops

if this is like surface pro x 2 just under different name...sorry its garbage
hope the emulation is far better than it was 3 years ago

It seems its something new and not the old emulation that exists in Windows 11 currently

 

[KPOM]

I would argue Windows users don’t want ARM. They usually fall under two camps:

1. Pro/Enterprise users that rely on lifetime compatibility between x86/64.
2. Gamers

ARM meets none of these and MS implementation will likely be abysmal. Maybe they are trying to gain some Apple users, which I could see, but Qualcomm chips have been trash for years.

The PCs announced today are consumer PCs. Microsoft claims that their translation layer is at least as efficient as Rosetta 2. They also have commitments from key software vendors to produce native-ARM versions.

 

[Digitalguy]

The good thing Apple should take example from is that the new Surface pro now starts at 16GB RAM ($999)