iPad Pro OSX or iOS 9

[Pinoiako916]

I know that the iPad Pro will ship with iOS 9. My question to you is, if it is to be a legitimate competitor to the Surface Pro 3/4 from Microsoft, how come it does ship with OS X so that one is able to have one device merging both tablet and laptop like capabilities?

I own a 2012 MacBook Air and I really like it. However, I have a Surface 3 that is my tablet, work station as well.

 

[Michael Goff]

I know that the iPad Pro will ship with iOS 9. My question to you is, if it is to be a legitimate competitor to the Surface Pro 3/4 from Microsoft, how come it does ship with OS X so that one is able to have one device merging both tablet and laptop like capabilities?

I own a 2012 MacBook Air and I really like it. However, I have a Surface 3 that is my tablet, work station as well.

Best reasons for not having an iPad Pro with OS X from a user standpoint:
OS not optimized for touch
No touch optimized apps on OS

Reasons for Apple to not want to do it:
Mac App Store isn't earning as much as iOS one

It'd be a horrible experience. Apple isn't about merging devices anyway. They'd rather you buy multiple devices for multiple purposes. The closest we'd get is iPad Pro with a good connected keyboard and iOS 9.x, but that's different because the bigger earning app store is still there and it's easier to add keyboard and mouse to touch apps than touch to keyboard apps.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Perhaps Apple doesn't want to have an iOS device that's a "legitimate competitor to the Surface Pro?" Considering the weight and dimensions of the new MacBook, and the likelihood that the MBA and MBP (or their successors) are likely to follow in that lighter/thinner vein, and comparing those numbers to the Surface Pro (which I did in another post not so long ago)... I'm convinced that Apple will deliver a MAC that competes with Surface Pro. But it won't be marketed like a Surface Pro, or even directly compared to it. It'll just be a Mac with an attractive set of new features. It will still be able to run Windows (and iOS in a VM), connect to USB storage devices... OS X already handles a somewhat more limited roster of gestures through Trackpad and Magic Mouse, so I have little doubt that OS X could be extended to work on a touch screen. But long term, gesturing in the air, rather than smearing a screen, is where things are headed. Oh, and Siri for Mac, of course.

I think people get too hung up over the word "pro." People who have spent the past few decades using computers professionally are certainly "pros," but not every product with "pro" in its name is necessarily meant for us. in a world where IBM is selling iOS to corporations and institutions, they need to distinguish the "consumer" iOS devices from those that are built for the corporate/institutional market. "Pro" justifies the price and describes the target market.

There are armies of workers who never had a desktop (or laptop) computer, or need thereof, who will be getting the large form-factor iPad. They'll take what they already know from iOS and Android, and will be up to speed in short order. IBM is out there pitching that much shorter learning curve, simpler administration, etc. The corporate and institutional markets want fewer devices with desktop OSes, not more. "What do you mean, it runs OS X??? If I wanted to convert my workforce to Mac I would have done it years ago."

 

[Pinoiako916]

Perhaps Apple doesn't want to have an iOS device that's a "legitimate competitor to the Surface Pro?" Considering the weight and dimensions of the new MacBook, and the likelihood that the MBA and MBP (or their successors) are likely to follow in that lighter/thinner vein, and comparing those numbers to the Surface Pro (which I did in another post not so long ago)... I'm convinced that Apple will deliver a MAC that competes with Surface Pro. But it won't be marketed like a Surface Pro, or even directly compared to it. It'll just be a Mac with an attractive set of new features. It will still be able to run Windows (and iOS in a VM), connect to USB storage devices... OS X already handles a somewhat more limited roster of gestures through Trackpad and Magic Mouse, so I have little doubt that OS X could be extended to work on a touch screen. But long term, gesturing in the air, rather than smearing a screen, is where things are headed. Oh, and Siri for Mac, of course.

I think people get too hung up over the word "pro." People who have spent the past few decades using computers professionally are certainly "pros," but not every product with "pro" in its name is necessarily meant for us. in a world where IBM is selling iOS to corporations and institutions, they need to distinguish the "consumer" iOS devices from those that are built for the corporate/institutional market. "Pro" justifies the price and describes the target market.

There are armies of workers who never had a desktop (or laptop) computer, or need thereof, who will be getting the large form-factor iPad. They'll take what they already know from iOS and Android, and will be up to speed in short order. IBM is out there pitching that much shorter learning curve, simpler administration, etc. The corporate and institutional markets want fewer devices with desktop OSes, not more. "What do you mean, it runs OS X??? If I wanted to convert my workforce to Mac I would have done it years ago."

Interesting take on this. I would definitely buy a MacBook that will be able to run iOS through VM even though OS X and iOS will never merge like Windows 10. So what you are saying is that the Surface Pro 3 competes better with the MacBook Airs?

 

[Pinoiako916]

Best reasons for not having an iPad Pro with OS X from a user standpoint:
OS not optimized for touch
No touch optimized apps on OS

Reasons for Apple to not want to do it:
Mac App Store isn't earning as much as iOS one

It'd be a horrible experience. Apple isn't about merging devices anyway. They'd rather you buy multiple devices for multiple purposes. The closest we'd get is iPad Pro with a good connected keyboard and iOS 9.x, but that's different because the bigger earning app store is still there and it's easier to add keyboard and mouse to touch apps than touch to keyboard apps.

Perhaps. What about future versions of OS X that is able to run iOS in VM? Thoughts?

 

[lusheslewis]

Interesting take on this. I would definitely buy a MacBook that will be able to run iOS through VM even though OS X and iOS will never merge like Windows 10. So what you are saying is that the Surface Pro 3 competes better with the MacBook Airs?

Well the Surface Pro 3 is a terrible tablet.

 

[theluggage]

My question to you is, if it is to be a legitimate competitor to the Surface Pro 3/4 from Microsoft, how come it does ship with OS X so that one is able to have one device merging both tablet and laptop like capabilities?

Key difference between Apple and Microsoft:

Apple has developed a huge ecosystem of iOS software optimised for ARM-based iOS tablets - including companion apps for many OS X applications. Although it has incorporated some iOS-inspired features in OS X, their main focus has been on smooth interworking between OS X and iOS devices. Also, OS X runs on x86 and iOS runs on ARM, and many apps are native. The Apple ecosystem, therefore, may have a niche for a 'Pro" iOS tablet (that said, I'm healthily skeptical, unless they do something amazing with force touch or pen input to open up new applications).

Plus, Apple makes their money by selling hardware, and they'd love you to buy an iPad and a MacBook.

Microsoft has no tablet-based software ecosystem to speak of. Its ARM-based OS flopped. Its attempt with Windows 8 to produce a common operating system for tablets and PCs was an epic failure that would have bankrupted lesser companies (arguably it did - if you blame Windows 8 for the PC sales slump). For a MS tablet to be successful, it pretty much has to run "real Windows".

Plus, Microsoft makes their money by selling Office - and you're more likely to want full-blown Office on something like the Surface Pro.

Perhaps. What about future versions of OS X that is able to run iOS in VM?

Problem is, because you're emulating a different processor, it takes a fair bit of CPU. Even if Intel produce a processor that gives the same power-per-watt as ARM emulation will take more power than the corresponding native processor. Fine if you're running on a medium-spec laptop, but if you want to do it on an iPad/MacBook-class device it might not be too efficient. Might be easier to build in a physical ARM chipset and let the Intel spaceheater power down when not needed.

OS not optimized for touch
No touch optimized apps on OS

It does occur to me that with a force-touch screen the "touch optimised" issue partly goes away, because it restores the distinction between positioning the cursor and 'clicking':

Touch & slide finger around screen == moving the mouse pointer
Regular click == mouse click
Click & slide == click & drag
Force click == double-click or right click

...then add a stylus for precision & avoiding the 'I can't see where I'm touching because my finger is in the way' syndrome.

 

[Pinoiako916]

Well the Surface Pro 3 is a terrible tablet.

How is the Surface Pro 3 a terrible tablet? It is able to do the things that I am able to do with my MacBook Air and be a tablet in one device. I used to be an iPad owner, wherein I would bring both that and my MacBook to school.

Now with the surface pro 3, I am able to leave my MacBook Air at home and now it is my unofficial desktop computer.

 

[Pinoiako916]

How is the Surface Pro 3 a terrible tablet? It is able to do the things that I am able to do with my MacBook Air and be a tablet in one device. I used to be an iPad owner, wherein I would bring both that and my MacBook to school.

Now with the surface pro 3, I am able to leave my MacBook Air at home and now it is my unofficial desktop computer.

Also, I am able to have two devices in one. In my opinion, having one device that does it all (laptop and tablet) is important for portability.

 

[lusheslewis]

It is able to do the things that I am able to do with my MacBook Air and be a tablet in one device.

So? It is still a terrible tablet. Doesn't it weigh 800+ grams?

 

[Michael Goff]

Perhaps. What about future versions of OS X that is able to run iOS in VM? Thoughts?

That takes care of the OS issue, and running iOS in a VM takes care of the apps. But how well would iOS run in a VM?

Key difference between Apple and Microsoft:

Apple has developed a huge ecosystem of iOS software optimised for ARM-based iOS tablets - including companion apps for many OS X applications. Although it has incorporated some iOS-inspired features in OS X, their main focus has been on smooth interworking between OS X and iOS devices. Also, OS X runs on x86 and iOS runs on ARM, and many apps are native. The Apple ecosystem, therefore, may have a niche for a 'Pro" iOS tablet (that said, I'm healthily skeptical, unless they do something amazing with force touch or pen input to open up new applications).

Plus, Apple makes their money by selling hardware, and they'd love you to buy an iPad and a MacBook.

Microsoft has no tablet-based software ecosystem to speak of. Its ARM-based OS flopped. Its attempt with Windows 8 to produce a common operating system for tablets and PCs was an epic failure that would have bankrupted lesser companies (arguably it did - if you blame Windows 8 for the PC sales slump). For a MS tablet to be successful, it pretty much has to run "real Windows".

Plus, Microsoft makes their money by selling Office - and you're more likely to want full-blown Office on something like the Surface Pro.



Problem is, because you're emulating a different processor, it takes a fair bit of CPU. Even if Intel produce a processor that gives the same power-per-watt as ARM emulation will take more power than the corresponding native processor. Fine if you're running on a medium-spec laptop, but if you want to do it on an iPad/MacBook-class device it might not be too efficient. Might be easier to build in a physical ARM chipset and let the Intel spaceheater power down when not needed.



It does occur to me that with a force-touch screen the "touch optimised" issue partly goes away, because it restores the distinction between positioning the cursor and 'clicking':

Touch & slide finger around screen == moving the mouse pointer
Regular click == mouse click
Click & slide == click & drag
Force click == double-click or right click

...then add a stylus for precision & avoiding the 'I can't see where I'm touching because my finger is in the way' syndrome.

The part it takes away wasn't even the biggest issue.

The biggest problem is the UI. Also, basically making it OS X with a stylus is something you can get already. It's a bad solution that costs about 3k$. Apple doesn't make devices that rely on a stylus like this, that's the thing that SJ was railing against in his keynote in 2007.

 

[theluggage]

Also, basically making it OS X with a stylus is something you can get already. It's a bad solution that costs about 3k$.

Assume you're referring to this: http://www.modbook.com/modbookpro

Yeah, a solution that relies on buying a new MacBook Pro, throwing away the case and expensively hand-rebuilding it as a tablet is a good basis for comparison here.

Alternatively, look at the number of iPad stylus products on sale (e.g. http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/ink-and-slide.html - and many more) - maybe there's a demand? The current stylii range from 'plastic fingers' (which aren't much good) to more sophisticated active ones with bluetooth (which are hampered by the lack of a standard stylus API). Then, for OS X, there Wacom Cintiq tablets are pretty popular considering the pricetag (and that they need a Mac to work).

Apple doesn't make devices that rely on a stylus like this, that's the thing that SJ was railing against in his keynote in 2007.

Yes, he was talking about an iPhone with a 3.5" screen with a very limited CPU vs. Windows Mobile phones with even smaller, grotty resistive touchscreens that needed stylii because the buttons on the on-screen keyboard were too small to press with a finger (I had one of those - they blew).

Things have changed beyond recognition since then - we're talking about devices with 12" super-high-res screens and multicore CPUs that are quite capable of running powerful graphics apps.

NB: I don't think its likely that the iPad Pro would run OS X, I just think that it could be done with a force-touch screen.

 

[Michael Goff]

Assume you're referring to this: http://www.modbook.com/modbookpro

Yeah, a solution that relies on buying a new MacBook Pro, throwing away the case and expensively hand-rebuilding it as a tablet is a good basis for comparison here.

Alternatively, look at the number of iPad stylus products on sale (e.g. http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/ink-and-slide.html - and many more) - maybe there's a demand? The current stylii range from 'plastic fingers' (which aren't much good) to more sophisticated active ones with bluetooth (which are hampered by the lack of a standard stylus API). Then, for OS X, there Wacom Cintiq tablets are pretty popular considering the pricetag (and that they need a Mac to work).



Yes, he was talking about an iPhone with a 3.5" screen with a very limited CPU vs. Windows Mobile phones with even smaller, grotty resistive touchscreens that needed stylii because the buttons on the on-screen keyboard were too small to press with a finger (I had one of those - they blew).

Things have changed beyond recognition since then - we're talking about devices with 12" super-high-res screens and multicore CPUs that are quite capable of running powerful graphics apps.

NB: I don't think its likely that the iPad Pro would run OS X, I just think that it could be done with a force-touch screen.

There's a huge difference between the two. You mentioned using the stylus to make up for the UI being not-so-good for touch. That's not what the majority that buy stylus for the iPad. Also, the Cintiq is more of a niche object than anything Apple sells currently. It's not a solution for this sort of a problem.

I don't think it could be done to any reasonable standard.

 

[Pinoiako916]

There's a huge difference between the two. You mentioned using the stylus to make up for the UI being not-so-good for touch. That's not what the majority that buy stylus for the iPad. Also, the Cintiq is more of a niche object than anything Apple sells currently. It's not a solution for this sort of a problem.

I don't think it could be done to any reasonable standard.

I digress, if an ipad has a file explorer like osx and applications that can replicate the functions of Microsoft Office, then it will be a great companion to a MacBook.

 

[Michael Goff]

It could work through the iCloud app.

 

[nj-morris]

So? It is still a terrible tablet. Doesn't it weigh 800+ grams?

That doesn't make it terrible. For a 12-inch tablet with a full computer inside that's pretty decent. And it's lighter than pretty much all laptops, including the new MacBook

 

[Commy1]

Apple is pretty adamant about iOS on touch devices, I just hope that Apple puts in some extended features or something that only works on a larger screen iPad. If it does indeed come to pass, I'm looking forward to the Adobe app updates. How much will mobile Illustrator, Lightroom and Photoshop be like the desktop version.

 

[newellj]

So? It is still a terrible tablet. Doesn't it weigh 800+ grams?

I guess it's a matter of opinion. One of my adult sons and my wife have an SP3. I'd say that the SP3 isn't a great tablet but not everyone really wants a pure tablet (which is probably why sales are stagnating). Some people want a compact computer with a touchscreen and stylus support, and the SP3 is exceptionally good in that niche. Choose your tools according to your needs. I don't want one, but it works brilliantly for them.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Interesting take on this. I would definitely buy a MacBook that will be able to run iOS through VM even though OS X and iOS will never merge like Windows 10. So what you are saying is that the Surface Pro 3 competes better with the MacBook Airs?

It depends on which competitors' perspective you're using. I don't doubt Microsoft positioning strategy is to have Surface compete with iPad - a "better" iPad that runs full-strength Windows apps, rather than slimmed-down iOS. Why would Apple want to acknowledge the notion that there's a tablet better than iPad? I think they'd rather have Surface be perceived as a "PC in tablet's clothing," than "a better tablet." I happen to view Surface from that perspective. Due to processor, OS, and i/o capabilities, Surface is a PC. "PC" and "touch screen" are not mutually exclusive concepts. iOS and its ecosystem have been designed to emphatically not be a conventional desktop OS. It's the anti-PC, for the huge numbers of people who feel PCs are overly complex and hard to learn. Make iOS more PC-like, and Apple risks losing that audience.

 

[joeblow7777]

Well the Surface Pro 3 is a terrible tablet.

Well it really depends on what you want in a tablet. Want a bigger version of a smartphone? Get an iPad. Want a smaller version of a laptop? Get a Surface Pro. I don't mean to criticize either, they're doing two different things. But if I had to pick between the two to be my sole mobile device, the Surface would be an easy choice.

With regards to the iPad Pro, I just don't know how Apple is going to go with it. Make it an even bigger device that's still based on a smartphone OS, or give it a desktop OS that was not designed for touchscreen interaction?

 

[Serban]

iPad pro with OSX is the same deal with the new Macbook if it has touchscreen so no deal, why would apple do 2 identical products with touchscreen be the only difference?
so if they will release ipad pro will sure have iOS now that Apple has add some nice multitasking in iOS9 and i hope some more unique features just for the ipad pro

 

[Newtons Apple]

I know that the iPad Pro will ship with iOS 9. My question to you is, if it is to be a legitimate competitor to the Surface Pro 3/4 from Microsoft, how come it does ship with OS X so that one is able to have one device merging both tablet and laptop like capabilities?

I own a 2012 MacBook Air and I really like it. However, I have a Surface 3 that is my tablet, work station as well.

I am not holding out much hope that Apple will let the Pro be a real competitor to the Surface Pro 4. With out a legitimate folder/file system to keep and store files it will be lacking. I would love to see it like a MB tablet with full Yosemite but that will never happen.

Waiting to see the iPad Pro and the Surface Pro 4 this fall.

 

[newellj]

I am not holding out much hope that Apple will let the Pro be a real competitor to the Surface Pro 4. With out a legitimate folder/file system to keep and store files it will be lacking. I would love to see it like a MB tablet with full Yosemite but that will never happen.

Waiting to see the iPad Pro and the Surface Pro 4 this fall.

I agree. Apple seems to have an almost theological belief in non-convergence.

 

[nj-morris]

I am not holding out much hope that Apple will let the Pro be a real competitor to the Surface Pro 4. With out a legitimate folder/file system to keep and store files it will be lacking. I would love to see it like a MB tablet with full Yosemite but that will never happen.

Waiting to see the iPad Pro and the Surface Pro 4 this fall.

iOS 9 has an iCloud Drive app...will that help?

 

[Newtons Apple]

iOS 9 has an iCloud Drive app...will that help?

It would help but there are times when there is no WiFi or cellular. I need about 3000 contracts on the device for my people reference while in the field. We use DropBox through out my company but it requirements for communications is the same.