iPad - the "Tinkerer's Sunset"?

[Legolover64]

Hey guys,

I'm as stoked as anyone about the release of the iPad, but I read an article recently on a blog that put it into an interesting perspective - http://diveintomark.org/archives/2010/01/29/tinkerers-sunset

Reminds me of the talk "The Future of the Internet and How to Stop It" by Jonathan Zittrain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEsmw7jpODc

What do you guys think? Is the paradigm shift "worth it" to lose this functionality? Please, intelligent comments only.

 

[thejakill]

I don't care how my computers work. I just want to use them to do the things I need them to do.

The whole ipad controversy makes it clear: Geeks just don't get it. Apple does. That's why they are so popular with regular folks. That's why ipad will be a big hit.

 

[liquidsuns]

I think these complaints are stupid. Apple is still making Macbooks and iMacs and Mac Pros. They are still developing Mac OS. Not everything has to be the same product. Every computing device doesn't have to have Windows or Mac OS and allow nerds to "tinker", as he puts it. It's okay to have different devices that do different things that are designed for different markets. Computers aren't just used by programers or "tinkerers" anymore.

In the same way that most of us don't need and aren't interested in 3ghz 8-core i7 super processors, most of us dont' need and aren't interested in the complexity of Windows and Mac OS and Linux. We just want something simple and streamlined and secure and thank god Apple actually has the balls and the ability to make it for us.

 

[macduke]

Actually I believe once the iPad is jailbroken it will be tinkered with like crazy. I am the type of person who would never jailbreak my iPhone, but you can bet I'm going to jb my iPad as soon as possible. I'm going to hack the crap out of this thing. It's going to be fun!! Sure Apple doesn't want me to, but as long as somebody has the drive to do it, then it will happen. Can't wait to get mine and hack away.

 

[*LTD*]

I don't care how my computers work. I just want to use them to do the things I need them to do.

The whole ipad controversy makes it clear: Geeks just don't get it. Apple does. That's why they are so popular with regular folks. That's why ipad will be a big hit.

+1

It's really that simple.

 

[Hmac]

Actually I believe once the iPad is jailbroken it will be tinkered with like crazy. I am the type of person who would never jailbreak my iPhone, but you can bet I'm going to jb my iPad as soon as possible. I'm going to hack the crap out of this thing. It's going to be fun!! Sure Apple doesn't want me to, but as long as somebody has the drive to do it, then it will happen. Can't wait to get mine and hack away.

Why would anyone here care what you do with your hardware?

 

[t0mat0]

Tinkerers can easily code for it, and make the apps they want.

 

[macduke]

Why would anyone here care what you do with your hardware?

Because the article seems to say that people will stop tinkering completely now. But I believe that to be the opposite by example of myself. In addition you can still tinker the crap out of your own Mac. The iPad was built to be stable and do things well so people who don't tinker won't have to mess with it. But rest assured, it will be tinkered!

 

[maflynn]

Apple has been fairly closed off for tinkerers since the original macintosh 128k. If as a hobbyiest you want to tinker with hardware, apple computers/devices are a poor choice. Simple as that.

I used to build/sell/maintain PCs back in the day, and it was fun. I'm older [and grumpier ] and choose not to do that anymore. Macs are great in many ways and one way is they work without cracking them open and fudging with the innards

 

[applemike]

The iPad is only just the dawn of tinkering on touch style devices...

If more companies produce touch devices and some of them happen to be open source, for example the GTablet (if we ever see it).

Tinkering will exist untill its impossible, illegal, or until we get exactly what we want in one go.

However since not all people want the same thing, and that people will always want something that isnt available, someone will have the knowledge and drive to tinker and do something that wasnt intended. (if that makes sense?!)

Mike

 

[colmaclean]

Apple has been fairly closed off for tinkerers since the original macintosh 128k. If as a hobbyiest you want to tinker with hardware, apple computers/devices are a poor choice. Simple as that.

Fact. Just ask Adobe!

 

[applemike]

Fact. Just ask Adobe!

Couldnt read this without a smile,

If apple talked to adobe, and worked something out, flash would be appearing in apple products, however there should be a thread for this.

Mike

 

[Hmac]

Because the article seems to say that people will stop tinkering completely now. But I believe that to be the opposite by example of myself. In addition you can still tinker the crap out of your own Mac. The iPad was built to be stable and do things well so people who don't tinker won't have to mess with it. But rest assured, it will be tinkered!

Bemoaning the fact that computers are easier to use now? That somehow we have all lost something important because computers are more useful and accessible to a far greater number of people? Ridiculous! The guy is nothing more that a 45 year old nostalgic - like my grandpa sitting on his porch reminiscing about the "old days" and all the things we've lost that "made us what we are". Like my grandpa, he is simply yearning for a simpler, more exciting time in his life. The point he misses is that the majority of people don't share his nostalgia for the ancient history of personal computing. It's like being upset that automobiles are so reliable these days. The days of the shade tree mechanic are gone, but we don't see writer nostalgically writing about how sad it is that we all don't have to carry a set of tools with us when we set out in our cars, like in the old days.

In the meantime, I'm fine with you, or anyone, pushing the envelope as hard as you want, and enjoying your hobby to the maximum, whether it's as a consumer or a tinkerer. As for me, I still have a copy of Peeks and Pokes in a box somewhere, but right now, I want a convenient device to watch movies and read books, and an expanded content paradigm. That's all I want.

 

[bobob]

Back in the day, you could build and fine tune your axe just the way you like it...

...now we're stuck with these pre-made jobs...

(Ahhh, who am I kidding? - - you're still welcome to tinker away and make your own stone axe!)

 

[WytRaven]

Tinkering is more alive now than ever

Tinkering is not going away, if anything it's getting more accessible. The fact is that, like mainstream computing, it has simply changed.

I am one of these old school tinkering types (who also started out programming on an Apple ][e) that has been able to see how things are changing and has adjusted accordingly.

Thanks to the SoC revolution led by the likes of ARM, Atmel, and Microchip tinkering is now more affordable and more rewarding than ever.

If you want your kids to tinker then take a look at these:

LPCXpresso
Arduino

I own both an LPCXpresso and an Adruino Duemilanove. The Arduino is currently powering my home made monome clone and the LPCXpresso has yet to be tinkered with as the iPad was announced the day after I received it and I have been distracted by iPad development research ever since I will get around to it soon though and knowledge gained from iPad programming will also apply to the LPXpresso as they are both ARM cortex based (the reciprocal would of course also be true).

 

[macduke]

Bemoaning the fact that computers are easier to use now? That somehow we have all lost something important because computers are more useful and accessible to a far greater number of people? Ridiculous! The guy is nothing more that a 45 year old nostalgic - like my grandpa sitting on his porch reminiscing about the "old days" and all the things we've lost that "made us what we are". Like my grandpa, he is simply yearning for a simpler, more exciting time in his life. The point he misses is that the majority of people don't share his nostalgia for the ancient history of personal computing. It's like being upset that automobiles are so reliable these days. The days of the shade tree mechanic are gone, but we don't see writer nostalgically writing about how sad it is that we all don't have to carry a set of tools with us when we set out in our cars, like in the old days.

In the meantime, I'm fine with you, or anyone, pushing the envelope as hard as you want, and enjoying your hobby to the maximum, whether it's as a consumer or a tinkerer. As for me, I still have a copy of Peeks and Pokes in a box somewhere, but right now, I want a convenient device to watch movies and read books, and an expanded content paradigm. That's all I want.

I don't think you actually read my post. I was agreeing with you. I stated that the iPad is easy to use and made for those who don't tinker much. It gets the job done well and it is convenient. It is also hackable, like most any machine, and people will still hack around on it. I'd rather have something that works well 100% of the time than something I'm always having to fix. That's why I switched from PC to Mac. I was always doing crap to the PC's I built and the Dells I had purchased. My wife still has a Dell that I was able to bring back to life yesterday by fixing a corrupt file system and rebuilding all five registry hives from the command line on the Windows XP restore disk. While she is glad I was able to rescue it, I wish it had just died. I removed the hard drive and backed it up to my Mac using an external enclosure. I'm going to look into completely wiping the system and using either OSX86 or Ubuntu to give it some new life. iPad will replace it in most daily use, as she usually leaves her Dell on the coffee table where it is just an ugly, bulky, pile of crap that overheats to the point that the paint melts off the bottom. iPad FTW.

 

[qtx43]

This is the classic Apple vs. Free Software argument that's been going on for ages. Both sides have good points, and I'd hate to see all computers as locked down as the business world would like them to be. And it's not just Apple, whose developer policies are in many ways much friendlier than other companies who shall remain nameless.

But what both sides miss completely is that most people are not interested in computers. At all. Some people like art, some people like mountain climbing, some people like physics and chemistry. People even like to (gasp!) waste time on games and following politics. Some people don't have a trained sysadmin on call. These are smart people, curious people, people who are fully capable of 'tinkering' with hardware but have absolutely no interest in spending their limited fund of time in doing so. These very same people find computers to be useful tools at times. Can you guess which company comes the closest in an attempt to satisfy these consumers?

If you want to complain about the lack of modern day 'tinkering', start with home chemistry sets for kids (no longer available). Ah, for the days when an 8 year old could cook up little explosions for his little plastic army men and risk blowing off his little fingers. You can't even buy lye at the grocery anymore.

 

[vini-vidi-vici]

When I was a kid, "blah blah blah"...

Same tired argument that repeats itself with every generation: Today's adults think that today's kids have everything handed to them on a platter, and things were better when they were kids.

The real fact is today's adults simply aren't kids today, and have lost their perspective of what it's like to be a kid... let alone a kid in today's society.

There's plenty of room for tinkering today. I see it all the time. Maybe we can't tinker with the same things the same ways as before, but so what? That's what progress is.

 

[Nebrie]

This is more of a "making lemonade out of lemons" statement: I think that the jailbreaking is a great "weeder" procedure to ensure a minimum technical competency level to enter the world of iphone tinkering. After that, it's the adrenaline rush from doing something you're not supposed to do and figuring out how to push it to the limit.

 

[Barham]

For people who want a device that has eBook reading as a major feature, you don't seem to be reading the article very well.

It seems to me that the issue here is the trend toward a computer that locks the user out of the tinkerable parts. What exactly would be wrong with asking for a legal jailbreak that young aspiring tinkerers could use?

I am younger than the author, and I'm no programmer, but I also remember that feeling of control over the machine. The difference is that I am also a teacher. I can think of several of my students who would attempt this with an iTouch or iPad (if they could get their hands on one).

Yes, they are also compenent enough to jailbreak, but the question remains: why should they have to?

 

[thejakill]

For people who want a device that has eBook reading as a major feature, you don't seem to be reading the article very well.

It seems to me that the issue here is the trend toward a computer that locks the user out of the tinkerable parts. What exactly would be wrong with asking for a legal jailbreak that young aspiring tinkerers could use?

I am younger than the author, and I'm no programmer, but I also remember that feeling of control over the machine. The difference is that I am also a teacher. I can think of several of my students who would attempt this with an iTouch or iPad (if they could get their hands on one).

Yes, they are also compenent enough to jailbreak, but the question remains: why should they have to?

1. one of the reasons apple has been so successful and has hardware/software that "just works" is that they have kept tight control over it.

2. let's face it: tinkering is a stone's throw away from hacking. why would they make it easier for that?

3. YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!

 

[NT1440]

How does not being able to tinker with one device (even though you probably will be able to through jailbreaking) mean the death of tinkering?

Do these people who cry out against Apple seriously put Apple on such a high pedestal that they think this one company can change human nature?

 

[Barham]

Again I believe you have misread. I am not , nor is the OP, crying out or bashing Apple in any way. I fully intend on buying an iPad on day one.

It's the fact that I think this device is the future (or at least currently represents the future) of computers that I posted in this thread at all. I think people are going to want to use these, and I mean lots of people. But, that also means that more people are going to want to see what makes them work.

The primary difference in this argument is that you will have to break into your own machine instead of having a reasonable way to access these functions.

This is not a catastrophe or a "hate" thread. Think of it instead as an interesting point of discussion.