iPad2 to have A4 processor?

[jclardy]

I don't know, I think the only way Apple could get away with using the same A4 chip is to have the clock speed bumped up to around 1.5Ghz.

The iPad right now is pretty snappy for most tasks but it could use some more juice.

I just hope they announce it soon...

 

[gloss]

Apple has never really been a spec whore, they do what they want too.

Again, as I mentioned. They're the only company that I'm aware of that is selling a C2D based laptop for over 1,000 bucks.

They're only using the C2D because the alternatives would involve even bigger trade-offs in GPU power.

 

[maflynn]

They're only using the C2D because the alternatives would involve even bigger trade-offs in GPU power.

Perhaps, but it is ludicrous to still charge over a grand for such an old chipset. Regardless the reason why they're sticking with the old chipset does not alter my point, in that apple has a history of sticking with a chipset for a long time, and that they generally don't rush to upgrade to the newest cpus.

 

[gloss]

Perhaps, but it is ludicrous to still charge over a grand for such an old chipset. Regardless the reason why they're sticking with the old chipset does not alter my point, in that apple has a history of sticking with a chipset for a long time, and that they generally don't rush to upgrade to the newest cpus.

Eh, I think in this case it was a wise decision. They would most definitely have gone with the newer Core processors if the tradeoffs weren't so huge.

 

[maflynn]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-MBP, I own a 13" MBP. I'm very happy with it. I'm less concerned about the specs, and more about it solving a need.

The same goes with the iPad, I'm not seeing the need for a dual core processor.

 

[yodaxl7]

Digitimes is just another blog site. They have been wrong before. They have reported about the next iphone 5 and it turned out to be the Verizon iPhone. I suspect the enhanced a4 is for the iPhone Nano ($200 dollar smartphone with no contract).

 

[WLS]

Digitimes is just another blog site. They have been wrong before. They have reported about the next iphone 5 and it turned out to be the Verizon iPhone. I suspect the enhanced a4 is for the iPhone Nano ($200 dollar smartphone with no contract).

Hmmm.. that's an interesting take on that rumor. I hope you are right.

 

[rosalindavenue]

I'm kind of old and I lived through the spec wars of the 90s and early 00s... clock speeds, minor upgrades, etc. The ipad and iphone are past all of that. The ipad seems pretty zippy for the software it has. The iphone and ipad are built for user experience and battery life, not "dual core" for the sake of saying "me too" to vaporware (so far) Android "ipad killers." Apple would only put a dual core processor in if they could keep up the battery life. The laws of physics say they can't; not without thickening the products for more battery. So I bet this rumor is true.

 

[profets]

I'm kind of old and I lived through the spec wars of the 90s and early 00s... clock speeds, minor upgrades, etc. The ipad and iphone are past all of that. The ipad seems pretty zippy for the software it has. The iphone and ipad are built for user experience and battery life, not "dual core" for the sake of saying "me too" to vaporware (so far) Android "ipad killers." Apple would only put a dual core processor in if they could keep up the battery life. The laws of physics say they can't; not without thickening the products for more battery. So I bet this rumor is true.

Couldn't agree more..

 

[Piggie]

I'm kind of old and I lived through the spec wars of the 90s and early 00s... clock speeds, minor upgrades, etc. The ipad and iphone are past all of that. The ipad seems pretty zippy for the software it has. The iphone and ipad are built for user experience and battery life, not "dual core" for the sake of saying "me too" to vaporware (so far) Android "ipad killers." Apple would only put a dual core processor in if they could keep up the battery life. The laws of physics say they can't; not without thickening the products for more battery. So I bet this rumor is true.

You are looking at it from one point of view remember.

What you say it true, the apps that have been written do run fine, however, yes, they will run fine as the fixed point in hardware was in place so apps had to be written to run well on this.
In the same way as devs write for games consoles. The hardware is set in stone and you write to this and nothing else.

You don't write a program for the PS3, the Wii or the 360 which needs a machine with twice the power to run your code well. That's just not the way things work.

In the same way, if the iPad was twice as fast as it is now, and apps were written for that, and then you took those apps and ran them on the iPad we actually have, then they would run bad as they were designed to run on a different system's power.

There is nothing WRONG with the iPad now, as you say, all things that have been designed for it run good, well yes, they would do

The issue is going to be, what will devs do when they do have more power to use. Will they use it?
Well a game released later in the year need 512MB or ram to run, or need a dual core CPU to run with a smooth frame rate? (the iPad 2 we hope)

There are many heavyweight apps that can't really run on the iPad as it is for various reasons. And of course games can always do with more power, memory etc.

In 5 years time, we will probably look back at our current iPad and be amazed anything worked with such limited power and memory etc.

 

[MRU]

So if true that they plan to utilise a modest A4 upgrade can we assume the dual GPU is also out of the window ?


I had dismissed the 'september' refresh idea, however if this rumor turns out to be true and this first iPad 2 revision is so-so (modest CPU GPU upgrade, slightly thinner, 1 megapixel camera) then it really does leave plenty of scope for a refresh much sooner than the usual annual cycle.

 

[Piggie]

So if true that they plan to utilise a modest A4 upgrade can we assume the dual GPU is also out of the window ?


I had dismissed the 'september' refresh idea, however if this rumor turns out to be true and this first iPad 2 revision is so-so (modest CPU GPU upgrade, slightly thinner, 1 megapixel camera) then it really does leave plenty of scope for a refresh much sooner than the usual annual cycle.

I would say, and I'm only guessing, Apple will fit a faster CPU and GPU when THEY feel there is a need for one, or, and it's a BIG OR, they feel they are very badly lagging behind the current market and they feel they should keep a competitive model in the market place.

This time around, most people are expecting just a tweak I feel.

They won't want to do anything the make iPad1 look bad just yet.

 

[Sydde]

So if true that they plan to utilise a modest A4 upgrade can we assume the dual GPU is also out of the window ?


I had dismissed the 'september' refresh idea, however if this rumor turns out to be true and this first iPad 2 revision is so-so (modest CPU GPU upgrade, slightly thinner, 1 megapixel camera) then it really does leave plenty of scope for a refresh much sooner than the usual annual cycle.

Dual GPU? Where do you get that from? It makes almost no sense, not the same way as dual core CPU. A GPU can be made faster and more powerful by expanding its internal units, which yields improvements in ways that do not compare to CPU mods.

 

[Pressure]

Dual GPU? Where do you get that from? It makes almost no sense, not the same way as dual core CPU. A GPU can be made faster and more powerful by expanding its internal units, which yields improvements in ways that do not compare to CPU mods.

Sure it does, the graphic unit in SoC's do not suffer from the same scaling issues found in desktop graphics.

Look at the ImgTec SGX543MP4 found in the NGP (PSP2) for example.

The iPad 2 is rumored to be using a SGX543MP2 solution, which isn't far fetched. The SGX543 scales to 16 cores.

 

[fpnc]

The iPad does need a faster processor. For example, if you run audio in the background on the current iPad you may experience audio drop-outs when a demanding foreground app is running or when you launch another app. It doesn't happen often (in my experience), but it's still something of an indication that the current system isn't fast enough to support seamless background operations (although, just by itself, adding additional memory would certain help with multi-tasking).

Also, while most apps run pretty well it's kind of pointless to claim that they are "fast enough" when an improved processor could make them even faster and more responsive.

I find this latest rumor somewhat suspect (i.e. unlikely), but back when it was first suggested that an iPad 3 might appear this fall I immediately posted that such a release schedule would only make sense if Apple had "blown" the redesign on the iPad 2 and that they were now playing catch-up to match the dual-core designs that had been announced by the competition.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/11885675/

 

[Piggie]

The iPad does need a faster processor. For example, if you run audio in the background on the current iPad you may experience audio drop-outs when a demanding foreground app is running or when you launch another app. It doesn't happen often (in my experience), but it's still something of an indication that the current system isn't fast enough to support seamless background operations (although, just by itself, adding additional memory would certain help with multi-tasking).

Also, while most apps run pretty well it's kind of pointless to claim that they are "fast enough" when an improved processor could make them even faster and more responsive.

I find this latest rumor somewhat suspect (i.e. unlikely), but back when it was first suggested that an iPad 3 might appear this fall I immediately posted that such a release schedule would only make sense if Apple had "blown" the redesign on the iPad 2 and that they were now playing catch-up to match the dual-core designs that had been announced by the competition.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/11885675/

It's only guesswork, but I would not be surprised if Apple have been slightly taken aback at the specs and speed of development of Tablets about to launch, Honeycomb, and even phones about to launch also.

They've had a reasonably easy ride over the past few years, and perhaps, just perhaps they were expecting the competition to be a lot slower in offering any worthwhile threat to their position.

Apple do tend to "lumber along" a bit. Tweak here, tweak there. Nice tweaks, but perhaps now is not the time for tweaks, but the time to man the guns and come out firing on all cylinders, so to speak

 

[fpnc]

As for real rumormongering and conspiracy theories, it might be worth remembering that Mark Papermaster the head of the Apple's mobile hardware engineering was "removed" late last summer for an as yet undisclosed reason. One explanation being that Steve Jobs had found that Papermaster was lacking in "vision" (or maybe Antennagate, take your pick).

Could it be that Papermaster was dismissed because he hadn't foreseen the need for dual-core CPUs/GPUs and had produced a roadmap with the iPad sticking with the A4 well into 2011? That timeframe would be about right, considering that the iPad 2 design was probably finished and mostly committed to manufacturing before Papermaster left the company (since you need to sign contracts and arrange for parts availability long before a product actually ships).

 

[yodaxl7]

As I said earlier, I think that post from digitimes is false. However, the rate of the processor gaining power is rampant. Nividia has already in the process of making a quad core chip by August of this year. Hardware is outpacing the software. I could only imagine the cost of such chip. A lot of the companies are using the dual core chip. So, I could only imagine that it is not so expensive. Plus, there are more rumors that apple is doing dual core. Also, apple want to meet the needs from the gaming developers, right?

 

[Coukos34]

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Interesting. If it is true then that would make me think that the rumours of a September-ish iPad 3 are almost certainly true. If Apple release an ARM Cortex-A8 based iPad 2 in the next month or so and don't refresh it for another year then that would mean that their main tablet offering in February 2012 will still be based on a single Cortex A8 core. I just can't see that as being viable.

Although I hope it isn't true, I can however see some reasons for the almost-here iPad 2 being A4 (ARM Cortex-A8) based so that they can hold back the big update to September and wrong-foot their competition launching in the summer. I also agree with John Gruber's reasoniong as to why switching the major iPad refresh to September-ish would make sense. The iPhone is still higher volume and the flagship product so it clears the stage for the June iPhone announcements to be the ones that premier the latest Apple A<whatever> chip, last year the iPad stole some of the iPhone's thunder by revealing the A4.

A couple of other points in favour of an A4 in the iPad 2:

1) If the iPad 3 really is going to be the point where apple quadruple the pixel count then that is where they need the step-change in CPU and GPU power. Boosting the performance too much for the 1024x768 resolution of an iPad 2 might mean that when they need to push around 4 times as many pixels for the iPad 3 they end up with a slight performance drop vs the iPad 2. Holding off the big CPU/GPU upgrade until the iPad 3 could avoid this issue.

2) They almost certainly need to move to sub 45nm technology to get to the CPU/GPU capabilities required for a retina display so maybe one of the tweaks for the updated A4 in the iPad 2 would be a shrink in process size. It might make sense for Apple to test out the new smaller geometry sizes on the A4 architecture (both in terms of their own design capabilities and their manufacturer's fabrication capabilities) before using for the A5. A bit like Intel's "tick tock" strategy.

- Julian

Unfortunately all good points. I now think the iPad 2 will be even less than expected hardware-wise. Now I'm regrettin selling my iPad. Gonna be a long wait till September

 

[fpnc]

...A couple of other points in favour of an A4 in the iPad 2:

1) If the iPad 3 really is going to be the point where apple quadruple the pixel count then that is where they need the step-change in CPU and GPU power. Boosting the performance too much for the 1024x768 resolution of an iPad 2 might mean that when they need to push around 4 times as many pixels for the iPad 3 they end up with a slight performance drop vs the iPad 2. Holding off the big CPU/GPU upgrade until the iPad 3 could avoid this issue.

2) They almost certainly need to move to sub 45nm technology to get to the CPU/GPU capabilities required for a retina display so maybe one of the tweaks for the updated A4 in the iPad 2 would be a shrink in process size. It might make sense for Apple to test out the new smaller geometry sizes on the A4 architecture (both in terms of their own design capabilities and their manufacturer's fabrication capabilities) before using for the A5. A bit like Intel's "tick tock" strategy.

- Julian

However, to meet or beat the competition they could also introduce a dual-core ARM9-based system with a single-core SGX543. That's pretty much how I defined the coming iPad 2 which probably doesn't need a dual-core GPU given the current 1024x768 display. Then, when the so-called Retina display comes about they could switch to a multi-core SGX543.

In any case, a single-core CPU isn't going to look very good for any potential iPad refresh. They could jump to a higher clock rate -- 1.2GHz seems to be a common increment, although I have seen mention of 1.5GHz ARM cores. The problem with just increasing the clock rate is that it can actually result in worse battery life than you'd get with a lower-clocked dual-core chip.

 

[quetzalcoatl]

And if they do this it will be very bad even if they have a iPad3 scheduled for 6 months from the iPad2 release. Nvidia said they will have quad cores ready to go by aug.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/nvidia-announces-quad-core-kal-el-soc-promises-it-in-tablets-by/

 

[Beezy]

You are looking at it from one point of view remember.

What you say it true, the apps that have been written do run fine, however, yes, they will run fine as the fixed point in hardware was in place so apps had to be written to run well on this.
In the same way as devs write for games consoles. The hardware is set in stone and you write to this and nothing else.

You don't write a program for the PS3, the Wii or the 360 which needs a machine with twice the power to run your code well. That's just not the way things work.

In the same way, if the iPad was twice as fast as it is now, and apps were written for that, and then you took those apps and ran them on the iPad we actually have, then they would run bad as they were designed to run on a different system's power.

There is nothing WRONG with the iPad now, as you say, all things that have been designed for it run good, well yes, they would do

The issue is going to be, what will devs do when they do have more power to use. Will they use it?
Well a game released later in the year need 512MB or ram to run, or need a dual core CPU to run with a smooth frame rate? (the iPad 2 we hope)

There are many heavyweight apps that can't really run on the iPad as it is for various reasons. And of course games can always do with more power, memory etc.

In 5 years time, we will probably look back at our current iPad and be amazed anything worked with such limited power and memory etc.

Spot on and also why I am hoping for a major upgrade in at least the memory. There are some things that I would like it to do that is impossible right now. When it does do these things that I ask then I will "need" one. For right now I'd love to have one just can't justify the expense.

 

[Savor]

And if they do this it will be very bad even if they have a iPad3 scheduled for 6 months from the iPad2 release. Nvidia said they will have quad cores ready to go by aug.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/nvidia-announces-quad-core-kal-el-soc-promises-it-in-tablets-by/

NVIDIA has basically made ALL unreleased tablets look obsolete with that roadmap.

75X more performance than TEGRA 2 in three years? And look how much improved performance is every year. The Xoom, iPad 2, PlayBook, and NGP already seem ancient to me.

 

[maflynn]

So if true that they plan to utilise a modest A4 upgrade can we assume the dual GPU is also out of the window ?

I never heard any rumor about a dual-gpu, heck that makes even less sense then dual core cpu.

People, this is apple, they take small measured steps when it comes to updates to existing product lines. We're not about to see any major changes to a revision 2 product.

NVIDIA has basically made ALL unreleased tablets look obsolete with that roadmap.

So all unreleased tablets are made obsolete because of unreleased chipsets?

 

[phpmaven]

It doesn't matter if they coat it in gold and diamonds, if it's an a8 processor, it's ancient technology and light years behind everything else. The worst apple should do is a single core a9 and even that would be huge deal breaker.

Nonsense. It might be a deal breaker for you, but the average target consumer that Apple is going after doesn't care about these kind of things. I also happen to be a serious tech geek myself and I use my iPad every day and I just don't find myself thinking "man I wish this thing was faster". I also might mention that I'm the kind of person who has to have the fastest computers and gadgets I can afford. I have SSDs in my Mac Pro and MacBook Pro and will get really impatient if I have to deal with the slightest delay on a computer.

If they kept the same processor in it, it would do just fine. Sure, a few tech whores might buy something else, but most people wouldn't know a MHZ if it slapped 'em upside the head.

I'm kind of old and I lived through the spec wars of the 90s and early 00s... clock speeds, minor upgrades, etc. The ipad and iphone are past all of that. The ipad seems pretty zippy for the software it has. The iphone and ipad are built for user experience and battery life, not "dual core" for the sake of saying "me too" to vaporware (so far) Android "ipad killers." Apple would only put a dual core processor in if they could keep up the battery life. The laws of physics say they can't; not without thickening the products for more battery. So I bet this rumor is true.

Ya, I'm kinda old myself. My first computer was a Commodore 64 if that gives you a clue.

I've been in the IT field for many years and have dealt with hundreds of average computer users and I can tell you that spec details like people are going on about here just don't mean squat to 99% of people. So the posts about how Apple's going to be in trouble if they don't meet or beat the specs of these new tablets coming out are just nonsense.