iPadOS Identified as Digital 'Gatekeeper' Under New EU Tech Rules

[Sophisticatednut]

If there are fewer differences, they are more alike. That there are remaining differences is why I object to your attempts to substitute "same". If you're going to argue basic semantics then there's no point in arguing anything requiring nuance.

I’m not arguing semantics, but saying they are more the same seems very weird. If you’re willing to say that iOS becomes more like windows/macOS/ubuntu and android with this added functionality. And with every iOS update Apple does that removes and/or ad a feature that windows/MacOS/ubuntu/android they become more alike.

Then you can simply substitute iOS becoming the same as android, with iOS becomes the same as macOS. And the only reason to use android instead of macOS is to have the negative connotation with android.

Then I’m sorry we simply don’t agree on the applicability of this word and for me making it a pointless term to describe it.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

If there are fewer differences, they are more alike. That there are remaining differences is why I object to your attempts to substitute "same". If you're going to argue basic semantics then there's no point in arguing anything requiring nuance.

Just how humans and trees are more alike, but we even more alike with mushrooms because our common ancestor is closer evolutionary than threes and 50% the same DNA, or we are more alike mouse sharing 85% of our DNA, or 93% of our DNA with cats.

And if a person is born with a single string that exists in mushrooms but doesn’t exist in cats, or even better they lose a single string that cats have. Would this person technically be more similar to mushrooms now? And less similar to cats? That just is so absurd to make the use of the word “similar or the same” useless in any practical context

 

[svish]

Expecting to see a lot of changes with iPadOS 18 in Europe by Christmas!

 

[mandopicker101]

lmao just keep changing the rules. yeah sure lets see how this plays out

may as well design your own device, eu

Hmmm….Completely open sourced design, able to run multiple OSes but totally secure and private with full rights of repair, runs on USB-C, has 10 year lifespan and fully upgradeable CPU, RAM and storage. Ideally made in Europe.

 

[ofarlig]

This is very exciting as it could lead to Mac OS emulation on the iPads.

 

[TechnoTiger3000]

That really does not make any sense. The DMA is not intended to ban the closed ecosystem? Exactly how is any company with a closed ecosystem supposed to comply when step one is allow alt stores" and step two is "allow side loading". That, by definition, results in the elimination of the closed ecosystem.

The goal of the DMA is not to open ecosystems. It's quite technical but opening up some ecosystems is really just the effect of the EU protecting innovation and consumers choices.

See blacksmith analogy above.

 

[heinzdembowski]

I feel like I have no power in EU. Who am I supposed to vote for to not have this **** happen?

Maybe you can try to emigrate to North Korea

 

[Contact_Feanor]

It’s your device should always be your choice what you install on it

If that's important to you, there are a number of vendors selling devices that allow just that. If you buy an iPhone though, that has never been the value proposition. If you bought an iPhone and then proclaim it's your choice to install whatever you want, you haven't been paying attention and you bought the wrong phone for you. All good and well, but why would you limit others to make that choice if they want to?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

If that's important to you, there are a number of vendors selling devices that allow just that. If you buy an iPhone though, that has never been the value proposition. If you bought an iPhone and then proclaim it's your choice to install whatever you want, you haven't been paying attention and you bought the wrong phone for you. All good and well, but why would you limit others to make that choice if they want to?

Well iOS have had this possibility for almost a decade but heavily crippled to limit its usability.

Now how are you impacted by this situation? You can continue to only use the AppStore. Just how on macOS you can use only the Macappstore, while the rest of use use better stores that actually work and listen to customers such as steam

 

[MacKey76]

If Apple opens up iPadOS and iOS everywhere like it has in EU. Will you go back to using BlackBerry?

If they are forced to open it up then aas a consumer I would consider my options and decide whether to stay ot go.

As long as the “new” features can be disabled then I’ll probably stay Apple.

But I buy into the walled garden and protection that offers (and yes I get things slip through etc but it’s still miles agead of Android) so if an open system is forced on me then I will look at my options then but it certainly won’t be what I want or bought into.

Where is my choice not to have this forced on me if it comes to that? How is that more choice for consumers?

If people don’t like the walled garden then go just somewhere else. There are other options for you. You know what you are getting when you buy Apple. It isn’t kept secret. I genuinely can’t understand why people can’t grasp that these days.

These ridiculous decisions and demands claiming to be pro consumer do the exact opposite. They will have a detrimental effect on the (I’m guessing) majority of Apple customers who like things just how they are or simply don’t care or worse don’t realise the potential consequences of it being more open and thus expose themselves to greater risk.

I have nothing personally against it being a turn off/turn off option at all. That is choice and people can then make that decision. But I do have a problem with people demanding it after buying the product, and even as a turn on/turn off option, why should Apple do anything at all?

It’s all a bit like the people who buy houses at the end of airport runways and then complain forever more about aircraft noise and demand timings or routes be altered but with no care for what it does to the people who then get the noise instead. You know what you’re getting.

 

[MilaM]

Except the EU is not a country. It's a group of countries created to decrease the ability for the citizens of these countries to have any effect on the democracy. The EU is one big anti-democracy where nobody ever voted for. Honestly it should be illegal, but they made themselves legal. And they gave themselves power to a. make laws, b. enforce those laws and c. appoint judges if someone ever tries to question their laws.

The democratically elected governments of the countries that make up the EU gave it the authority to make and enforce laws. In fact, every time the EU proposes a new law, all countries will negotiate the terms of it and in some circumstances have to agree unanimously about it. Some laws only need a qualified majority though. Judges are also appointed by the governments of the member countries.

Is the EU a perfect supra-national organization? Certainly not. But it's the best thing that has happened to this continent in many centuries in my opinion. Why else would so many countries in the vicinity still aspire to be part of it?

 

[Beautyspin]

My take is that greed for profits has driven Apple to create products that people want. There are other products, by other greedy companies, that are equally accessible to the consumer and yet many selfish consumers buy products from greedy Apple.

Or you can say Apple works hard to make products that people will value, in competition with other companies with their own approaches to providing value, and many customers find more value for themselves in the Apple product.

They're both the same mechanism with the cynicism slider set to a different setting. Your tone suggests that you are using "benevolent" in place of "altruistic". Nobody thinks Apple is altruistic.

This is what Apple's executives openly acknowledged. They have taken their customers for granted. Now that the sales are falling everywhere, they are now trying to innovate (The AI BS).

Apple’s smartphone monopoly means that innovations fueled by an interest in building the best, most user-focused product that would exist in a more competitive market never get off the ground. What’s more, Apple itself has less incentive to innovate because it has insulated itself from competition. As Apple’s executives openly acknowledge: “In looking at it with hindsight, I think going forward we need to set a stake in the ground for what features we think are ‘good enough’ for the consumer. I would argue we’re already doing *more* than what would have been good enough. But we find it very hard to regress our product features YOY [year over year].” Existing features “would have been good enough today if we hadn’t introduced [them] already,” and “anything new and especially expensive needs to be rigorously challenged before it’s allowed into the consumer phone.”

 

[bcortens]

Spotify, a company with ⅔ market share in the EU, doesn’t count as dominant?

It’s obvious the DMA is just another name for protectionism, and this is little more than an attempt by the EU to prop up their own businesses which increasingly find themselves unable to compete on a global stage.

How else is it that the DMA so happens to impact only US tech giants and not a single European company?

Is Spotify a platform? No, it's a streaming music service.
I've already said I disagree with the EU on this, I think all ad companies should be required to ask for consent before tracking, however the EU is targeting platforms more than it is services. Netflix, Disney Plus, and Prime Video aren't being hit by this rule either.

Aaand we're back to conspiracy theories...

 

[bcortens]

Ignoring my earlier comments and asking me to restate them isn't a path to a productive conversation.

Claiming that you have answered the question doesn't make it true.

Lets look at what you have said in this regard:

Apple is being prevented from providing the type of products and services customers like me appreciate. The kinds of integrated systems that Apple became famous for and that customers like me value greatly.

The EU has told Apple not to be Apple, and has told Apple's customers that there is only one business model allowed and our preference for Apple over Android was misguided. If Apple's control of their platform was degrading my user experience, I'd change platforms.

Nothing except their decisions aren't their own any longer. I have no confidence in the European bureaucracy's ability to build a great product with a great user experience.

That isn't anything close to an answer, it's just vague gesturing at some potential future change. You can claim all I am asking for is for you to restate things but if you actually look at what we've said to each other in this thread this is it. It's not an answer with any more specificity than "things will be worse because they won't be able to do what they want"
You have not provided a clear example of something that will be worse.

How will the user experience of software Apple makes for iOS and iPadOS be worsened? What features are they going to remove?
How will the hardware built by Apple be made worse?

 

[Plerf]

If Apple have a universal switch for sideloading, even the CCP won’t be able to do anything about it. They will just continue to force Apple to censor the App Store. And pretend their great firewall will do the rest. After all they don’t force Chrome to censor websites for them

If Apple have a universal switch for sideloading, even the CCP won’t be able to do anything about it. They will just continue to force Apple to censor the App Store. And pretend their great firewall will do the rest. After all they don’t force Chrome to censor websites for them

China has leverage on Apple—aside from hosting a significant portion of their manufacturing, it’s a huge market. They can control Apple’s access to their market and therefore can control Apple’s relationship to it.

 

[Abazigal]

Is Spotify a platform? No, it's a streaming music service.
I've already said I disagree with the EU on this, I think all ad companies should be required to ask for consent before tracking, however the EU is targeting platforms more than it is services. Netflix, Disney Plus, and Prime Video aren't being hit by this rule either.

Aaand we're back to conspiracy theories...

They sure sound like an ad platform to me.

Spotify will use everything it knows about you to target podcast ads

New ad technology for Spotify-exclusive podcasts is coming

www.theverge.com

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Is Spotify a platform? No, it's a streaming music service.
I've already said I disagree with the EU on this, I think all ad companies should be required to ask for consent before tracking, however the EU is targeting platforms more than it is services. Netflix, Disney Plus, and Prime Video aren't being hit by this rule either.

Aaand we're back to conspiracy theories...

Well EU has such rules you can read in the GDPR section. And in the rules for Digital service act.

We have the DMA( and DSA as combined legislation that is working in tandem.

And they are likely working on other rules regarding privacy and consent

 

[bcortens]

They sure sound like an ad platform to me.

Spotify will use everything it knows about you to target podcast ads

New ad technology for Spotify-exclusive podcasts is coming

www.theverge.com

Write to the EU then and try and bring this to their attention. Requiring them to request permission to target ads sounds like a good next target for regulation.

Edit: I'm not trying to say that Spotify shouldn't be regulated, the more I learn about their Ad practices the more I think they should be. If Meta doesn't like that Spotify isn't being regulated they should also (rightly) complain to the EU.

 

[VulchR]

And in other news the EU rules that Apple employees can't wear blue socks on Tuesdays.



In all seriousness, the EU is eliminating consumer choice for a system that has a secure walled garden. I'll say it again: If the EU wanted to do something for consumers, they would have allowed Apple to keep its app store, but make access fairer and transparent and require Apple to guarantee security and quality of the apps offered in the store.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

Well iOS have had this possibility for almost a decade but heavily crippled to limit its usability.

Now how are you impacted by this situation? You can continue to only use the AppStore. Just how on macOS you can use only the Macappstore, while the rest of use use better stores that actually work and listen to customers such as steam

I'm impacted in the same way a lot of people are impacted: a lot of people simply aren't free to choose what apps they do or do not use in all situations. In a month and a half I'm taking another university exam for a course I'm taking for work. The exam is digital. We need proctoring software for that, to make sure we don't cheat. On the Mac that software is absolutely not available through the Mac app store because it needs so much permissions and creepy invasive things that it doesn't pass the requirements of the App Store. The same software is available on the iPad, where it is heavily sandboxed.
I live in the EU. What will happen from about six months onwards is that such software will no longer be available on the App Store on the iPad but in other App Stores so that it can do WAY more invasive stuff just like on the Mac. I can choose to not download stuff from other app stores, but that means not taking the exam, not getting higher pay at work, etc. For most students it's "download this software or don't pass your course". It impacts us.

 

[Abazigal]

Write to the EU then and try and bring this to their attention. Requiring them to request permission to target ads sounds like a good next target for regulation.

You think the EU isn't aware what one of their own homegrown tech companies is up to? The DMA was specifically crafted to target US tech companies while leaving EU businesses untouched. It doesn't get any more blatant with this latest move involving iPadOS.

Spotify will face zero repercussions for their actions.

 

[MilaM]

They sure sound like an ad platform to me.

Spotify will use everything it knows about you to target podcast ads

New ad technology for Spotify-exclusive podcasts is coming

www.theverge.com

Ads are everywhere nowadays. Even Apple is (partially) an ad company. I fully expect to see more ads on iOS in the coming years. No way Apple is going to forgo this huge revenue opportunity, sadly.

Also, you can get rid of most ads on Spotify by going premium. This is exactly what the EU want's Meta to offer. What the rationale is behind the decision is not 100% clear to me. But I guess more choice is not bad in this case. Maybe some users of Meta products are so disgusted by ads, that they prefer to pay instead.

 

[MilaM]

You think the EU isn't aware what one of their own homegrown tech companies is up to? The DMA was specifically crafted to target US tech companies while leaving EU businesses untouched. It doesn't get any more blatant with this latest move involving iPadOS.

Even if this simple explanation was all there is to it, and I don't agree with it to be clear. Can you blame the EU for taking care of European companies? All governments around the world will do this, if they think it will benefit the domestic business environment. Ever heard of America First? Or what China does to prop up it's manufacturing base?

 

[Abazigal]

Ads are everywhere nowadays. Even Apple is (partially) an ad company. I fully expect to see more ads on iOS in the coming years. No way Apple is going to forgo this huge revenue opportunity, sadly.

Also, you can get rid of most ads on Spotify by going premium. This is exactly what the EU want's Meta to offer. What the rationale is behind the decision is not 100% clear to me. But I guess more choice is not bad in this case. Maybe some users of Meta products are so disgusted by ads, that they prefer to pay instead.

The EU is actually against the idea of Meta offering a paid option to remove ads / tracking, in part because they know the majority of Facebook users will never pay.

Eric Benjamin Seufert (@eric_seufert) on Threads

The EDPB — the EU’s legislature of privacy authorities — adopted a draft opinion today determining that large online platforms can’t offer a “pay or okay” model as a strict binary and must also offer a third, free choice that doesn’t utilize personalized advertising.

www.threads.net

So if said post is true, Meta is required to offer a free version that serves ads without tracking, but Spotify is evidently not required to do likewise.

 

[DaPhox]

Maybe you can try to emigrate to North Korea

Why should he do that? There are countries with much more liberties outside of EU. Canada NZ & Australia are none of these. 😀