iPads Will Work as Home Hubs in iOS 16, But Won't Support New Home Architecture

[RobbieTT]

I gotta say I always found it strange that a mobile device could act as a Home Hub. It could cause a lot of instability.
A Hub needs to be up and running 24/7. The HomePod and the Apple TV meet this criteria.
Not even Macs meet this criteria, because you're supposed to turn off your computer after use.

I find it odd that Macs do not meet the criteria - I have a headless M1 mini on 24/7 with a direct ethernet connection that happens to hosts some HomeKit systems and has UPS backup.

Why on earth can it not be used as a hub - surely it is better than a random HomePod mini on Gen 4 wifi only?

As an aside, I wish I could find a way to stop random HomePod minis becoming the hub, rather than my hardwired Apple TV4Ks.

 

[chucker23n1]

My take on it (and I'm looking forward to being massively disappointed when it all comes out and I'm proved wrong) is that you connect your devices to your hardware hub and because everything speaks the same language you can configure it in whichever app you choose, whether that be Apple, Google, IKEA, Phillips, or whoever, and switch freely between apps if you so choose. Whilst the apps may use different design and descriptive language, you'll still be triggering the same functionality in the hardware.

Right, I get that part for device configuration — I'm just not sure HomeKit's automation capabilities are part of it as well.

 

[nicolas17]

This increases my hunch that the "hh2SoftwareReleased" and "hh2AutoMigrationEnabled" stuff I have been seeing in an Apple config file since March, is in fact the "new home hub architecture"...

 

[sidewinder3000]

Apple, like everyone, is moving to use Matter. Matter is based on openThread. Thread requires IEEE 802.15.4. IEEE 802.15.4 requires a different physical radio than the iPad has (or the mac or the iPhone). Apple isn't crippling anything, purposely or not. The hardware necessary just isn't there.

Stop being so rational and fact-based! You’re completely ruining that person’s ability to complain about nothing.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Wall mounted iPads can still run the new home app with Matter support (as long as they can run v16) They just won’t act as a hub. Not a huge deal as people have HomePod mini or the new Apple TV.

.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Of course. Gotta get that upsell in somehow don't ya Timmy

People just looove to bitch about imaginary slights. And then repeat those false narratives ad nauseum. Maybe it makes them feel “smart”, even though it reveals the opposite. Comments like this bely an ignorance of the most basic mathematical concepts as they apply to hardware, like least common denominator. There has to be a minimum hardware requirement for all software. Past hardware, by the simple laws of life on earth, could not have possibly anticipated all the needs of future software that had not been invented or conceived of yet. Until hardware engineers develop the ability to predict the future, the only way to solve your insane requirement that all future software must run on all old hardware is to cripple new software by requiring it to run on every past machine that has ever been made.

Great idea. Thanks for sharing.

 

[sidewinder3000]

This is a relatively new subject I've been exploring recently so I may be off on some points here but --

They're most certainly talking about Matter which is a new, open Internet-of-Things connectivity standard for the likes of home automation gadgets and other such things you might use in the various ecosystems of the big players like Google, Amazon, Apple, etc. Devices made for Matter can ideally be easily used in any ecosystem, which is generally not the case with devices today. Today you typically have to get devices specifically for the ecosystem you invested in (e.g. HomeKit) and they typically do not work in other ecosystems (at least not without some hackery and literal "bridging" of one way of doing things to another). Matter is potentially a replacement for HomeKit as we know it today (and the proprietary ecosystems of those other aforementioned players), though it will likely live alongside traditional HomeKit for some time.

You'll also see chatter about Thread which is a wireless technology for interconnecting such devices (if they support Thread of course) in sort of a mesh network that is intended to be highly reliable, resilient, and responsive (low latency) among other things. Thread is one such hardware means of communications between devices used in Matter (Matter can also work with good ol' Wifi connections). Thread devices even work with Apple's native HomeKit already. Two devices in the Apple world -- the current generation Apple TV 4K and the HomePod Mini -- are capable of acting as "border routers" for thread devices within HomeKit. A "Border Router" allows Thread devices to be controllable from the IP network as you know it, e.g. they bridge the Thread devices mesh network to the IP network, essentially. Ideally there will be a number of Border Routers in a Thread mesh for redundancy.

Some definitions of terms here:

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I just recently started implementing Thread devices in my humble abode's HomeKit setup (notably outlets for controlling lights) and I have to say they've been quite nice and reliable so far, unlike earlier generations of the same devices that were IP-based and would sporadically become "unresponsive" for no logical reason.

Many thanks for so kindly explaining this new tech.

 

[sidewinder3000]

It’s also likely the original homepod won’t be supported… no thread support.

Do you know this for sure or is that just speculation? The article clearly stated that the original HomePod would work with Matter.

The Apple TV 4K, Apple TV HD, HomePod, and HomePod mini will all work as home hubs with the new architecture that Apple has in the works.

It would be a bummer if you were correct, as I own 8 original HomePods, but if the article is correct then it would seem that Apple has found a way to circumvent certain hardware requirements for at least two of their devices. Would love to hear the underlying technical ways they achieved this.

 

[sidewinder3000]

It’s also likely the original homepod won’t be supported… no thread support.

Do you know this for sure or is that just speculation? The article clearly stated that the original HomePod would work with Matter.

The Apple TV 4K, Apple TV HD, HomePod, and HomePod mini will all work as home hubs with the new architecture that Apple has in the works.

It would be a bummer if you were correct, as I own 8 original HomePods, but If the article is correct then it would seem that Apple has found a way to circumvent certain hardware requirements for at least two of their devices. Would love to hear the underlying technical explanation for this.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Two devices in the Apple world -- the current generation Apple TV 4K and the HomePod Mini -- are capable of acting as "border routers" for thread devices within HomeKit.

If this is correct, then I think we just found out why Apple suddenly, and without fanfare, stopped selling the original HomePod maxi. They’d started developing Matter along with Google and Amazon a few years ago, and perhaps realized that they couldn’t in good conscience continue selling a smarthome device that would very soon be incompatible with the SmartHome software of the future.

This would also explain why Apple gave little or no explanation about their reasons for discontinuing the original HomePod, because they have a history of being very disciplined about not commenting on future software or hardware developments.

The world makes a little more sense today.

 

[chucker23n1]

Past hardware, by the simple laws of life on earth, could not have possibly anticipated all the needs of future software that had not been invented or conceived of yet.

Is the argument here that past iPads are too slow? I think we’d be having a different conversation if it’s “for iPads to be Matter hubs, they need at least the M1” or whatever.

So far, I haven’t seen a good explanation that doesn’t also apply to the old HomeKit protocol.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Is the argument here that past iPads are too slow? I think we’d be having a different conversation if it’s “for iPads to be Matter hubs, they need at least the M1” or whatever.

So far, I haven’t seen a good explanation that doesn’t also apply to the old HomeKit protocol.

I don’t believe that it is the overall speed of the chip as much as it is the specific capabilities of the chip, and device hardware. As several other Forum users have explained more eloquently than I can, iPads do not apparently have the required type of radio for Matter, nor do they have the correct hardware for Thread, which is a fundamental element of Matter.

I’d also venture to guess that the fact that iPads are not purpose-built as “always-on” devices (like Apple TV’s and HomePods are) is a factor as well, which may become more apparent as more information about the demands of Matter & Thread are revealed. But that is, admittedly, speculation.

 

[chucker23n1]

As several other Forum users have explained more eloquently than I can, iPads do not apparently have the required type of radio for Matter, nor do they have the correct hardware for Thread, which is a fundamental element of Matter.

I’d also venture to guess that the fact that iPads are not purpose-built as “always-on” devices (like Apple TV’s and HomePods are) is a factor as well, which may become more apparent as more information about the demands of Matter & Thread are revealed. But that is, admittedly, speculation.

So why doesn’t Apple just say that?

 

[name99]

So why doesn’t Apple just say that?

You can spend your entire life trying to explain to people who are not interested in explanations, just in complaining -- or you can ignore them. Ignoring is generally the better option. Don't wrestle with a pig -- you'll just get dirty, and the pig will enjoy it a lot more than you.

You see exactly the same dynamic in politics. No matter how much you explain an issue today, there will be another issue tomorrow, then the next day. And the complainers will learn nothing from the explanations because they don't CARE about the explanations, what they care about is the complaining.

 

[jonblatho]

A Hub needs to be up and running 24/7. The HomePod and the Apple TV meet this criteria.

Haha, in theory.

In my HomeKit setup, the Apple TV was a consistent problem child, losing connections with most/all of my accessories and rendering my entire set of devices essentially unusable until I restarted it. Eventually I wound up disabling it as a hub altogether, and luckily my HomePods haven't been nearly as problematic, because you can't disable those as hubs.

No clue what the iPad-as-home-hub reliability is like, but if it's kept at home and charged, it surely couldn't be worse than my Apple TV hub experience.

 

[Tagbert]

I don’t believe that it is the overall speed of the chip as much as it is the specific capabilities of the chip, and device hardware. As several other Forum users have explained more eloquently than I can, iPads do not apparently have the required type of radio for Matter, nor do they have the correct hardware for Thread, which is a fundamental element of Matter.

I’d also venture to guess that the fact that iPads are not purpose-built as “always-on” devices (like Apple TV’s and HomePods are) is a factor as well, which may become more apparent as more information about the demands of Matter & Thread are revealed. But that is, admittedly, speculation.

Of course an iPad can be as always on as a HomePod or an Apple TV. Each of those devices will go into low power mode when not actively being used but they do background processes and communication while in that state. The other argument people have been making is that an iPad might not always be at home. Sure, for some people that is true. For others of us it is false. None of those argument are a definitive reason why and iPad could not be used as a hub. They just mean that - for some people - the iPad is not a good choice.

One argument that might be true is that only new devices that would have Thread radios would be able to be hubs. That is really the only argument put forth here that is not just a rationalism or BS.

If that is true, it probably means that existing Apple TV’s, OG HomePods and an other device except possibly a HomePod Mini would be unable to be a Homekit Hub.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Of course an iPad can be as always on as a HomePod or an Apple TV. Each of those devices will go into low power mode when not actively being used but they do background processes and communication while in that state. The other argument people have been making is that an iPad might not always be at home. Sure, for some people that is true. For others of us it is false. None of those argument are a definitive reason why and iPad could not be used as a hub. They just mean that - for some people - the iPad is not a good choice.

One argument that might be true is that only new devices that would have Thread radios would be able to be hubs. That is really the only argument put forth here that is not just a rationalism or BS.

If that is true, it probably means that existing Apple TV’s, OG HomePods and an other device except possibly a HomePod Mini would be unable to be a Homekit Hub.

I disagree that “of course” can it be “as always on”. It can be left always on, but it wasn’t designed from its inception to be always on. It’s primarily a mobile device that can be adapted to be always on. There is a difference.

Not sure why you are defending the idea that an iPad could be used as a home hub. Of course it could, and for a high end system where someone uses it as a wall mount or an A/V remote on a charge stand, it’s perfect. Clearly, Apple thought so, too. No one with any sense would argue otherwise.

The question moving forward is simply whether iPads will be capable of being home hubs moving forward with this new smart system standard. And it sounds like the radios that Apple puts in iPads aren’t capable of what will be required for Thread and Matter.

What that means for OG HomePods and Current Apple TVs, I can’t say. It sounds as though Apple may be saying those devices might still work as home hubs. So perhaps some other element of their hardware is capable of compensating enough to allow it to work. We’ll see.

 

[RandomDumba$$]

I gotta say I always found it strange that a mobile device could act as a Home Hub. It could cause a lot of instability.
A Hub needs to be up and running 24/7. The HomePod and the Apple TV meet this criteria.
Not even Macs meet this criteria, because you're supposed to turn off your computer after use.

I've used an Apple TV as my home hub for years... But keep a SIM connected Ipad plugged in and out of sight as backup- If the power goes out, or the internet connection goes offline having the ability to connect via cellular network and monitor the battery powered devices (like door sensors) is a great redundancy to have