iPhone 1.1.1 Aftermath

[Jarcrew]

I still don't see how this constitutes a PR blunder. Microsoft have banned modded 360s from Live, is that a PR blunder? No, because Microsoft made it clear that if you crack open your 360 and start meddling then they'll know about it. Y'know, just like Apple did before 1.1.1 dropped. When the iPhone starts giving people the ring of death when they need to call an ambulance, then you may want to give Nick Naylor a call. Until then, I'd be surprised if this "goes down in history". I doubt those with bricked iPhones will be getting their names carved in granite on a monument in Cupertino, honouring those who lost their warranties in the name of bloody-minded ignorance.

When the iPhone comes out in the UK, know what I'll do? Sign up for O2 and be glad to use it as it is, because it's an incendiary piece of kit. If I wasn't happy to use it as it is, I wouldn't buy it, and would instead get a N95 or a Blackberry or any number of hulking great monstrosities.

 

[stoneii]

Os

As I recall (and please correct me if I am wrong) the main OS programmers were not native Apple guys...they were from Nortel.

so I question the amount of overlap that has been assumed so far

 

[Selenolycus]

I just feel as though Apple is being ironic in trying to be different by making all of its items the same.

I don't see anything "different" about Apple. That's just marketing.

Don't get me wrong, I love OS X and I love my MacBook. The computer isn't flawless (coughcoughcrapgraphicscardcoughcough), but it works great for what I need it to do. OS X, in turn, is a great operating system.

But "different?" I don't understand what that is supposed to mean. All things differ from one another.

While Aqua is a great interface, I find using GNOME just as enjoyable. Currently, I use OS X largely because of its library of applications. Programs like Adium, Quicksilver, TextMate, and yes, even Apple software like iPhoto and iTunes really make using OS X very pleasant. OS X is very stable - but so is Linux. It's easy to use, but once installed, so is Linux. I could go on, but you get my point.

Apple is just another technology company that typically produces decent products.

 

[Selenolycus]

I still don't see how this constitutes a PR blunder. Microsoft have banned modded 360s from Live, is that a PR blunder? No, because Microsoft made it clear that if you crack open your 360 and start meddling then they'll know about it. Y'know, just like Apple did before 1.1.1 dropped.

Ok, perhaps I am beating a dead horse here - but when did Microsoft say that the 360 runs Windows Blah, the world's most popular desktop OS?

Apple did not make it clear that third-party applications (exception being the unlocks) would brick the iPhones.

 

[rjwill246]

Hate to piss in your Wheaties, but the bulk of Linux progress comes from Major World Corporations. The lead Linux Developers are all working for companies ranging from OSI to Google, to Apple, to IBM, to RedHat, to AMD, to Novell, etc.

The bulk of the platform support for KDE and GNOME comes from Corporate sponsorship and Governments.

Linux is every bit about making money as OS X. It's how the pie is focused that varies.

Linux isn't Hardware: They focus on Services since Shrinkwrap isn't their market, ala Microsoft.

In the end, No Money, no Game, No Jobs, Economies crash.

: Run Debian Sid for the past 6 years. Run OS X since NeXTSTEP 3.1. Ran Windows from 3.0 to XP. Ran MacOS from 7.x - 9. Ran DEC OSF/1 and HP-UX for work and university back in the days.

Worked for NeXT and Apple.

If you get this excited about a Phone I can't imagine what it would do to you if something that really mattered in life didn't fit your demands.

No kidding. Having read this poor soul's stuff and the raw angst it evokes, one can't but wonder if the Melleril or the psilocybin got mixed up. I can't believe that anyone would substitute real world and, what should be pragmatic thinking, for ideological airy-fairy fluff. It's only a phone, after all. Steve said so! And his piece was well written too...

 

[Selenolycus]

This has also been discussed before. It does not run Tiger (which a version of OS X). It runs OS X, which now comes in a lot of different versions. There is the iPhone version, the iPod touch version, the Apple TV version, then there is all the server versions and the PPC and Intel versions of the "PC" version...etc.

So, what makes an operating system OS X? Why is it that when I go to http://apple.com/macosx/ I am redirected to http://apple.com/macosx/leopard/ ? Is the OS running on the iPhone, as Apple states, the world's most advanced OS, in your mind?

Can you not even conceive of how calling two very different operating systems "OS X" may be confusing to someone who has "OS X" on their iMac?

 

[Jarcrew]

Ok, perhaps I am beating a dead horse here - but when did Microsoft say that the 360 runs Windows Blah, the world's most popular desktop OS?

Apple did not make it clear that third-party applications (exception being the unlocks) would brick the iPhones.

But what's the difference? And Apple did make it clear that modifying the firmware - e.g. to get applications running that Apple haven't sanctioned - may wind up with a brick. They said that before anybody had downloaded 1.1.1. I don't see the difference here; somebody modified their product in a way they weren't supposed to, somebody got their fingers burnt. Unlucky.

Apple laid out their stance on third-party apps way before anybody got in line to buy an iPhone. They did it on the site and at WWDC.

 

[RRK]

Ok, perhaps I am beating a dead horse here - but when did Microsoft say that the 360 runs Windows Blah, the world's most popular desktop OS?

Apple did not make it clear that third-party applications (exception being the unlocks) would brick the iPhones.

Dude you are really stuck on this one.
1. The iPhone does run OS X.
2. There is a version of OS X that runs on a desktop.
3. Apple believes it is "the world's most advanced operating system."

All of these things are true.

 

[3282872]

I don't see anything "different" about Apple. That's just marketing.

Don't get me wrong, I love OS X and I love my MacBook. The computer isn't flawless (coughcoughcrapgraphicscardcoughcough), but it works great for what I need it to do. OS X, in turn, is a great operating system.

But "different?" I don't understand what that is supposed to mean. All things differ from one another.

Main Entry: dif·fer·ent
Pronunciation: 'di-f&rnt, 'di-f(&-)r&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin different-, differens, present participle of differre
1 : partly or totally unlike in nature, form, or quality : DISSIMILAR <could hardly be more different> -- often followed by from, than, or chiefly British to <small, neat hand, very different from the captain's tottery characters -- R. L. Stevenson>
2 : not the same: as a : DISTINCT <different age groups> b : VARIOUS <different members of the class> c : ANOTHER <switched to a different TV program>
3 : UNUSUAL, SPECIAL <she was different and superior>

Apple's "Think Different" campaign from 1996-2002:

Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently.
They’re not fond of rules.
And they have no respect for the status quo.
You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them.
About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.
Because they change things.
They push the human race forward.
And while some see them as the crazy ones,
We see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think
they can change the world,
Are the ones who do.


Marketing campaign or not, Apple adopted this philosophy in everything they did. Apple still teaches this ideal to their employee base; in their stores and headquarters. Steve Jobs was a computer hacker many moons ago. Jobs referred to the iPhone as "revolutionary" (and not "just a phone" as someone else stated). How is it revolutionary to squelch progress by closing the platform to developers? Being different, thinking differently, are all a part of what Apple intends; to produce creativity and thinking outside the "beige" box. This is very antithetical to Apple's recent stance on the iPhone. Thinking "different" indeed.

 

[electronboy]

Apple=Mean=Microsoft

What more evidence do you need than the 1.1.1 iPhone firmware update? I had planned on buying my teenage sister an iPod as a holiday gift, but not now. Apple should stop bullying the iPhone users around by double charging for ringtones, preventing application development and more. Enough is enough!

How are we supposed to love a company that is so tyrannical?

I am worried where the 'new' Apple is headed.

 

[Selenolycus]

But what's the difference? And Apple did make it clear that modifying the firmware - e.g. to get applications running that Apple haven't sanctioned - may wind up with a brick. They said that before anybody had downloaded 1.1.1. I don't see the difference here; somebody modified their product in a way they weren't supposed to, somebody got their fingers burnt. Unlucky.

"The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty." They were pretty specific in this. It did not say third-party apps in general will void the warranty if it breaks. It said unlocking software.

Apple laid out their stance on third-party apps way before anybody got in line to buy an iPhone. They did it on the site and at WWDC.

Their talk has been two-faced, in my mind. I find it fairly hard to believe that people don't understand why Apple's statements could've been confusing to the average non-techie user. Not everyone is on the edge of their seat listening to statements made at the WWDC or the latest Apple press conference.

A lot of people just buy things and expect them to work as advertised. Apple advertised that the iPhone runs OS X. Whatever that may technically constitute in your mind, I know what it means to me unless someone specifically says "the OS X for iPhone" or something of the like.

 

[RRK]

So, what makes an operating system OS X? Why is it that when I go to http://apple.com/macosx/ I am redirected to http://apple.com/macosx/leopard/ ? Is the OS running on the iPhone, as Apple states, the world's most advanced OS, in your mind?

Can you not even conceive of how calling two very different operating systems "OS X" may be confusing to someone who has "OS X" on their iMac?

Leopard isn't even out yet so I guess if you are confused about the phone not running exactly the same OS as the relatively huge machine on your desktop then talking about a version that isn't even available yet must be very confusing.

...also the address itself categorizes leopard as a subgroup of macosx.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

 

[Selenolycus]

Main Entry: dif·fer·ent
Pronunciation: 'di-f&rnt, 'di-f(&-)r&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin different-, differens, present participle of differre
1 : partly or totally unlike in nature, form, or quality : DISSIMILAR <could hardly be more different> -- often followed by from, than, or chiefly British to <small, neat hand, very different from the captain's tottery characters -- R. L. Stevenson>
2 : not the same: as a : DISTINCT <different age groups> b : VARIOUS <different members of the class> c : ANOTHER <switched to a different TV program>
3 : UNUSUAL, SPECIAL <she was different and superior>

Apple's "Think Different" campaign from 1996-2002:

Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently.
They’re not fond of rules.
And they have no respect for the status quo.
You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them.
About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.
Because they change things.
They push the human race forward.
And while some see them as the crazy ones,
We see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think
they can change the world,
Are the ones who do.


Marketing campaign or not, Apple adopted this philosophy in everything they did. Apple still teaches this ideal to their employee base; in their stores and headquarters. Steve Jobs was a computer hacker many moons ago. Jobs referred to the iPhone as "revolutionary" (and not "just a phone" as someone else stated). How is it revolutionary to squelch progress by closing the platform to developers? Being different, thinking differently, are all a part of what Apple intends; to produce creativity and thinking outside the "beige" box. This is very antithetical to Apple's recent stance on the iPhone. Thinking "different" indeed.

Touché, you've made your point. Apple has been inconsistent in this.

 

[RRK]

A lot of people just buy things and expect them to work as advertised.

Then they "hack" them?

 

[Whiskerdreams]

"The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty." They were pretty specific in this. It did not say third-party apps in general will void the warranty if it breaks. It said unlocking software.



Their talk has been two-faced, in my mind. I find it fairly hard to believe that people don't understand why Apple's statements could've been confusing to the average non-techie user. Not everyone is on the edge of their seat listening to statements made at the WWDC or the latest Apple press conference.

A lot of people just buy things and expect them to work as advertised. Apple advertised that the iPhone runs OS X. Whatever that may technically constitute in your mind, I know what it means to me unless someone specifically says "the OS X for iPhone" or something of the like.

Yeah... Well the average non-techie user probably didn't hack their iPhone to move it to another service and they also probably didn't put 3rd party applications on it.

 

[Jarcrew]

Their talk has been two-faced, in my mind. I find it fairly hard to believe that people don't understand why Apple's statements could've been confusing to the average non-techie user. Not everyone is on the edge of their seat listening to statements made at the WWDC or the latest Apple press conference.

A lot of people just buy things and expect them to work as advertised. Apple advertised that the iPhone runs OS X. Whatever that may technically constitute in your mind, I know what it means to me unless someone specifically says "the OS X for iPhone" or something of the like.

But it does run OS X - to be fair, it's not up to Apple to correct gross misconceptions. And I don't believe for a second that people with the know-how to stick third party stuff on an iPhone are the same people who think "OS X" means dock, finder, dashboard etc. like Mac OS X. It isn't Mac OS X, nor has it ever been advertised as such. I also don't think they're the same sort of people who don't know Apple's stance - I just don't buy that for a second. Apple have been extremely clear about this, and if you're keen enough to crack into an iPhone then chances are you know why you need to even use a hack in the first place; because Apple don't want you anywhere near.

 

[Tangenten]

Its not a worst blunder. Maybe it will go down as the biggest over-reaction for a group that doesnt have a case. Maybe that was taken by the price cut folks.

Well, some of us tends to, you know, be a little over-dramatic from time to time.
Despite being one of those, I still feel the need to stress the importance of this blunder - yet again.

Apple has entered a new market, a very very big one, that is highly competitive, and they haven't exactly gone about it in a quiet way either. A spectacular success so far.

But if, and of course this is just my doom&gloom two cents speaking, sales of new iPhones heads south sooner rather than later, that could then only be credited to software-update 1.1.1.

Making it the worst Apple-blunder. Ever!!

 

[RRK]

But if, and of course this is just my doom&gloom two cents speaking, sales of new iPhones heads south sooner rather than later, that could then only be credited to software-update 1.1.1.

Making it the worst Apple-blunder. Ever!!

Then the iPhone 2 comes out.

 

[Jarcrew]

Well, some of us tends to, you know, be a little over-dramatic from time to time.
Despite being one of those, I still feel the need to stress the importance of this blunder - yet again.

Apple has entered a new market, a very very big one, that is highly competitive, and they haven't exactly gone about it in a quiet way either. A spectacular success so far.

But if, and of course this is just my doom&gloom two cents speaking, sales of new iPhones heads south sooner rather than later, that could then only be credited to software-update 1.1.1.

Making it the worst Apple-blunder. Ever!!

Sorry fella, what planet do you live on? If you think 1.1.1 is going to derail the iPhone train, well... seriously. I'd go as far as to say 95% of iPhone users aren't running any kind of mod. The jailbreak community is a vocal minority that has been given a great deal of attention for their admittedly stellar efforts (and some of the things they've made have been truly unbelievable). But if you think sales of iPhone aren't going through the roof because Apple got the boot into a few hobbyists, then you need to look again.

 

[Selenolycus]

Leopard isn't even out yet so I guess if you are confused about the phone not running exactly the same OS as the relatively huge machine on your desktop then talking about a version that isn't even available yet must be very confusing.

Listen, I am well aware that the iPhone uses an operating system that is not the OS X I use on my MacBook. I've been using computers and installed various operating systems since I was five, though. Not everyone has done that. I know that the Linux that runs on my router is a highly stripped-down version of Linux incapable of running most of the software I have on my Debian desktop and server.

Apple is supposed to be friendly to people who aren't tech savvy, though. Perhaps it is asking a bit much for a group of techies to comprehend the viewpoint of a non-techie who could be confused by calling the iPhone's OS the same thing they call the OS on their Macintosh computers.

...also the address itself categorizes leopard as a subgroup of macosx.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

And if you had read what I had said you'd know that http://www.apple.com/macosx/ redirects to that link. Try going to apple.com/macosx/ and see where it gets you.

 

[Mock Turtleneck]

Listen, I am well aware that the iPhone uses an operating system that is not the OS X I use on my MacBook. I've been using computers and installed various operating systems since I was five, though. Not everyone has done that. I know that the Linux that runs on my router is a highly stripped-down version of Linux incapable of running most of the software I have on my Debian desktop and server.

Apple is supposed to be friendly to people who aren't tech savvy, though. Perhaps it is asking a bit much for a group of techies to comprehend the viewpoint of a non-techie who could be confused by calling the iPhone's OS the same thing they call the OS on their Macintosh computers.

And if you had read what I had said you'd know that http://www.apple.com/macosx/ redirects to that link. Try going to apple.com/macosx/ and see where it gets you.

Wow, bit of hostility here?

Since you were 5 huh? When I was 5 DOS was king of the hill and we never had to reinstall, shows the difference in age. Heh.

Apple is a very friendly company for the average user, and as a rule quite nice to the technical community also. However your argument that a non-techie could be confused by calling the iBrick's OS Mac OS X is almost laughable, to make my point I just went through a walk through our National Call center and stopped at every iBrick I saw...

Our Call Center people are not very technical, honestly most are quite dense so I think it's a good idea of an average iPhone user. Out of 5 iPhones 0 of those users even knew what OS their iPhones ran nor, on asking, did they care. Also, all 5 were running 1.1.1 and their owners said they were very happy with the new volume and "cool" store.

The average user doesn't know or care what OS is on their Cell Phone and a tech savvy user should know better than to think a 4GB or 8GB flash phone is running an OS installed on Laptops or Desktops produced by Apple.

Next argument?

 

[Selenolycus]

Yeah... Well the average non-techie user probably didn't hack their iPhone to move it to another service and they also probably didn't put 3rd party applications on it.

I've heard that the installation process for most third-party apps is more or less point and click. So, why wouldn't they? They see a link on the web, download, install... or do you think non-techies don't install applications that don't come with their operating systems?

 

[Tangenten]

Sorry fella, what planet do you live on? If you think 1.1.1 is going to derail the iPhone train, well... seriously.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. And standing by it.

The one million+ current owners of working and non-working iPhones are irrelevant here. Because they have already paid for their phones. Future costumers haven't, and they are the ones that matter.

More **** about Apple/iPhone in the media= fewer sales. By the time it reaches Europe, the manure will be sticking to the fan so hard it won't come of...

 

[RRK]

I've been using computers and installed various operating systems since I was five, though.

Installing OS's since 5 and joining MacRumors forums since yesterday.

I wonder what this could mean.

Really though, I don't mean to add to your stress level right now since you are obviously very upset about your phone.

 

[Selenolycus]

Wow, bit of hostility here?

No, none. I'm not sure why you thought there was any hostility. I was simply explaining my situation compared to that of other users.

Since you were 5 huh? When I was 5 DOS was king of the hill and we never had to reinstall, shows the difference in age. Heh.

Well, I wasn't five when I first installed Windows 98, but I didn't want to give my life story.

The average user doesn't know or care what OS is on their Cell Phone and a tech savvy user should know better than to think a 4GB or 8GB flash phone is running an OS installed on Laptops or Desktops produced by Apple.

Next argument?

Perhaps not any Joe-blow off the street, but I've met people who thought that the iPhone uses the same OS X on Macs, so you can't convince me that they don't exist. I suppose not everyone is either "average" or "techie."